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Old 2010-04-06, 07:49   Link #13501
tyranuus
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Damn, I did write a longer piece on what I believed Moka's true personality would be like in response, but the damned PS3 timed out whilst I was writing on it and lost it, I can't remember exactly the way I worded it either, which was, Im pretty sure, better than what I've written below and carried my thoughts across better (sometimes putting those into words can be fun, because you KNOW what you mean but trying to say it can be another!)

Personally, I dont think the seperate mothers will make a difference to Kokoa, although if it does turn out she is somewhat different biologically to the rest of the family that may shake up her foundations a little, either way Kokoa is completely devoted to at least the Inner Moka side of her sister, so regardless of where that goes, unless she is forced, I think Kokoa will either stay out of any upcoming struggle, or side with Tsukune/Moka and the rest.

In regards to the seal not being for Youkai power, until we've seen the chapter, we don't know in what context it has been said, without being able to read it. It may be a reference to the rosario being more than JUST a seal for Youkai power; or it may simply be a reference to it not being a limiter in the same way as the one say Kahlua has, and this one is a more complete seal, which splits memory, power, everything. Either that or it could explicitly show a similar thing as what happens with Tsukune, when the more human element of Moka has higher control, she shows more restraint in the use of her powers because of her own feelings, much like Tsukune does, he only hits his highest peaks when he is under duress, and willing to let go, or in extreme emotional states.

I think until we can read a translation and perhaps see the follow on chapter or two we may not have a direct answer for this, because right now most of us are operating off snippets and partial translations.

In regards to how 'True Moka' would act, well I see it as a more rounded blend of the two personalities. We've already seen that Inner Moka does possess a hidden kindness thats usually hidden behind pride, aggression and in some cases, denial. The true Moka would likely be in many ways a lot like the Inner Moka, but with a greater capability and capacity to show her more compassionate side, and probably a slightly more optimistic outlook on things, effectively both personalities are her strengths, but in different areas, and both would likely affect the other and how it is displayed.

I also think quite frankly if the merge happens, Moka will make a move for Tsukune if it has not already happened, or he explicitly does not want it to [like thats gonna happen!], given we've already seen hints of possessiveness from both of Moka's personalities (even the usually more compassionate, understanding Outer Moka), the feelings for Tsukune from the both of them merged into one person could be lethal! haha
Consider it this way, how would you think the Outer Moka, who has shown several times just how she feels, would act if granted greater self confidence and belief, and a stronger sense of self, or the other way round, Inner Moka with more compassion, and willingness/capacity to express herself without restraint.

The other girls wouldn't have a chance!
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Last edited by tyranuus; 2010-04-06 at 08:09.
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Old 2010-04-06, 08:19   Link #13502
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I have been thinking that, while it seals inner Moka and her powers, perhaps Total Moka (inner plus outer) was too strong to deal with and using the Rosario to split her and her powers made her easier to manage. If that is the case then when inner and outer eventually merge they will be at least twice as strong as inner by herself.
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Old 2010-04-06, 09:20   Link #13503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyranuus View Post
Consider it this way, how would you think the Outer Moka, who has shown several times just how she feels, would act if granted greater self confidence and belief, and a stronger sense of self, or the other way round, Inner Moka with more compassion, and willingness/capacity to express herself without restraint.

The other girls wouldn't have a chance!
I would sya Inner Moka getting the affection from Outer one, because I am still convinced that even in merged personality case the Moka would look and act as in more dominant like an Inner Moka, just that her dere side would be increased quite a bit, but the dominant personality type would still be more of an Inner Moka.

That is of course if the mangaka wants to show progression - if not then the dominant one would be the Outer Moka with just a little bit of confidence added.
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Old 2010-04-06, 09:21   Link #13504
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That is another interesting possibility, that the seperation of the two sides of the personality was the only way to restrict her overall power level, rather than being a way for her to survive in the human world. I hadn't really thought about it in that way, although if the combination does occur, I wasn't expecting the 'True' Moka to be weaker than either of the current Moka sides anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo
I would sya Inner Moka getting the affection from Outer one, because I am still convinced that even in merged personality case the Moka would look and act as in more dominant like an Inner Moka, just that her dere side would be increased quite a bit, but the dominant personality type would still be more of an Inner Moka.

That is of course if the mangaka wants to show progression - if not then the dominant one would be the Outer Moka with just a little bit of confidence added.
That bit quoted was purely about how she would act in regards to Tsukune, rather than her overall 'complete' personality and general attitude
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Old 2010-04-06, 09:24   Link #13505
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Its the relationship with Tsukune that I had in mind as well.
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Old 2010-04-06, 09:28   Link #13506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyranuus View Post

Personally, I dont think the seperate mothers will make a difference to Kokoa, although if it does turn out she is somewhat different biologically to the rest of the family that may shake up her foundations a little, either way Kokoa is completely devoted to at least the Inner Moka side of her sister, so regardless of where that goes, unless she is forced, I think Kokoa will either stay out of any upcoming struggle, or side with Tsukune/Moka and the rest.

In regards to the seal not being for Youkai power, until we've seen the chapter, we don't know in what context it has been said, without being able to read it. It may be a reference to the rosario being more than JUST a seal for Youkai power; or it may simply be a reference to it not being a limiter in the same way as the one say Kahlua has, and this one is a more complete seal, which splits memory, power, everything. Either that or it could explicitly show a similar thing as what happens with Tsukune, when the more human element of Moka has higher control, she shows more restraint in the use of her powers because of her own feelings, much like Tsukune does, he only hits his highest peaks when he is under duress, and willing to let go, or in extreme emotional states.

I think until we can read a translation and perhaps see the follow on chapter or two we may not have a direct answer for this, because right now most of us are operating off snippets and partial translations.

In regards to how 'True Moka' would act, well I see it as a more rounded blend of the two personalities. We've already seen that Inner Moka does possess a hidden kindness thats usually hidden behind pride, aggression and in some cases, denial. The true Moka would likely be in many ways a lot like the Inner Moka, but with a greater capability and capacity to show her more compassionate side, and probably a slightly more optimistic outlook on things, effectively both personalities are her strengths, but in different areas, and both would likely affect the other and how it is displayed.

I also think quite frankly if the merge happens, Moka will make a move for Tsukune if it has not already happened, or he explicitly does not want it to [like thats gonna happen!], given we've already seen hints of possessiveness from both of Moka's personalities (even the usually more compassionate, understanding Outer Moka), the feelings for Tsukune from the both of them merged into one person could be lethal! haha
Consider it this way, how would you think the Outer Moka, who has shown several times just how she feels, would act if granted greater self confidence and belief, and a stronger sense of self, or the other way round, Inner Moka with more compassion, and willingness/capacity to express herself without restraint.

The other girls wouldn't have a chance!
Well tyranuus let's take what you said one at a time OK ... then

1.) I don't think that Kokoa would be affected by the "different mothers issue" as well ... as it has been mentioned many she seems to be devoted for her onee-sama to go against her. So like you I also think that either she is going to be neutral or side with Tsukune/Moka.

2.) Well, it's definitely true that we need to understand the context in which the statement about Moka's seal was made ... since like you mentioned there are many possible meanings to that.

I quite agree that until the translations of chapter 29 come out, we won't know for sure what it exactly means.

3.) Well we sort of saw how Moka might act after Outer and Inner Moka merge together when Omote and Ura-chan worked together to defeat the Gremlin.

In short it would make a more complete version of Moka that has the most prominent aspects of both Inner and Outer Moka's personalities.

Personally I think such a fusion is going to occur near the end of the manga, since as you have mentioned tyranuus it would probably reduce the chances of the other girls foreword getting Tsukune ... to zero. Another reason why I think this fusion is going to occur near the end of the manga is that it's going to reduce the possibilities of Tsukune developing his vampire abilities, since I don't think the fused Moka will be needing Tsukune's assistance to bring out her abilities.
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Old 2010-04-06, 09:44   Link #13507
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Old 2010-04-06, 10:32   Link #13508
tyranuus
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Spoiler for response to the above:


@Chris - Just because a True Moka would no longer need Tsukune for the Rosario, doesnt mean she would no longer train him, after all she is deeply protective of him, and making sure he could look after himself, and master his abilities so there is no chance of him ever completely falling to his vampiric element would surely be a priority to her; she knows as well as anyone she cannot be with him 24/7.
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Last edited by tyranuus; 2010-04-06 at 10:43.
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Old 2010-04-06, 10:40   Link #13509
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
I would sya Inner Moka getting the affection from Outer one, because I am still convinced that even in merged personality case the Moka would look and act as in more dominant like an Inner Moka, just that her dere side would be increased quite a bit, but the dominant personality type would still be more of an Inner Moka.

That is of course if the mangaka wants to show progression - if not then the dominant one would be the Outer Moka with just a little bit of confidence added.
Haha...at least we agree on that! A merged Moka would most likely look and act like Ura-chan but with a significant increase in the deredere department.
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Old 2010-04-06, 10:46   Link #13510
tyranuus
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It'd definately be a blend, I think I'd misunderstood Darknemo's point, it may or may not be more like Inner Moka, but either way it'd definately combine the key traits of both, now whether that results in it being more like Inner Moka with a dash of Outer, the other way round, or a 'hotel blend' of the two, we have yet to see.
That said I do think she would be likely to LOOK closer to Inner Moka, because if anything she's going to get more powerful, and Inner Moka looks a bit more vampiric (lean, hard, presumably better looking/more outworldly in her looks, more prominent fangs and inhuman eyes, silver hair, traits also exhibited by Tsukune's more vampiric form...).

Jeez so many coffee jokes possible...
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Old 2010-04-06, 11:02   Link #13511
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Originally Posted by tyranuus View Post
It'd definately be a blend, I think I'd misunderstood Darknemo's point, it may or may not be more like Inner Moka, but either way it'd definately combine the key traits of both, now whether that results in it being more like Inner Moka with a dash of Outer, the other way round, or a 'hotel blend' of the two, we have yet to see.
That said I do think she would be likely to LOOK closer to Inner Moka, because if anything she's going to get more powerful, and Inner Moka looks a bit more vampiric (lean, hard, presumably better looking/more outworldly in her looks, more prominent fangs and inhuman eyes, silver hair, traits also exhibited by Tsukune's more vampiric form...).

Jeez so many coffee jokes possible...
I think the best representation of a merged Moka at this time would be this:
Spoiler for Size:


Her eyes and eyebrows won't be as sharp and she'd probably smile a lot more - basically she won't have a permanent scowl like does now.
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Old 2010-04-06, 11:06   Link #13512
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Well.. um... Inner and Outer has the exact same basic look, the only difference is eyes and hair color, otherwise there's no change in appearance. Inner carries herself differently so gives off a different feel in comparison to outer having a more carefree demeanor.
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Old 2010-04-06, 11:09   Link #13513
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Originally Posted by tyranuus View Post
@Chris - Just because a True Moka would no longer need Tsukune for the Rosario, doesnt mean she would no longer train him, after all she is deeply protective of him, and making sure he could look after himself, and master his abilities so there is no chance of him ever completely falling to his vampiric element would surely be a priority to her; she knows as well as anyone she cannot be with him 24/7.
Well that's certainly true ... still training isn't the same as real combat experience gotten in fights that could be dangerous. While it is true that Moka can't be with Tsukune all the time ... for the most time she's with him and with her power's unleashed Tsukune will have less chances using his vampire abilities against various opponents and getting combat experience's that he needs to become stronger, with the merged Moka unlike how things are now with Inner and Outer Moka.
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Old 2010-04-06, 11:38   Link #13514
tyranuus
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Originally Posted by FriedRice84 View Post
I think the best representation of a merged Moka at this time would be this:
Spoiler for Size:


Her eyes and eyebrows won't be as sharp and she'd probably smile a lot more - basically she won't have a permanent scowl like does now.
Picture link is broken
Edit: or at least it doesnt seem to work inside the spoiler for some reason. Here we go, direct link:
http://img21.tx.us.mangafox.com/stor...e_ii_26_32.jpg

And yep, I'd agree with that description being in the region of how she'd look, Im guessing that link was meant to be the one where he's eaten the pie and said he liked it and she has a real 'guard down' moment.
Edit: yep it was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara
Well.. um... Inner and Outer has the exact same basic look, the only difference is eyes and hair color, otherwise there's no change in appearance. Inner carries herself differently so gives off a different feel in comparison to outer having a more carefree demeanor.
Aye they're very close, that said, I know the anime highlighted certain other differences, Im not sure if the manga did as well, I cant remember, but bar the eyes and hair colour, if this is retained, then there are a few physical differences beyond the way they carry themselves. I can't remember whether it is mentioned in the manga or whether this is an anime only feature though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris38
for the most time she's with him and with her power's unleashed Tsukune will have less chances using his vampire abilities against various opponents and getting combat experience's that he needs to become stronger, with the merged Moka unlike how things are now with Inner and Outer Moka.
There's also the possibility she would let him fight and only step in if things got out of hand for this own training and development sake, she knows he's starting to reach the level where he can almost take care of himself, and I doubt Moka would want to impact that, she wants him to be self sufficient as much as possible, and letting him fight his own battles is a solid way of improving his own control and mastery of his body, she just wouldn't let it get to the point where he is seriously at risk.
After all, Tsukune is almost at the level he is now fast enough to see bullets, and much faster than your normal human, he has come a LONG way.
Theres also the possibility that they may have to go to seperate locations at least temporarily in the near future, especially if her family has become involved.
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Last edited by tyranuus; 2010-04-06 at 11:49.
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Old 2010-04-06, 11:48   Link #13515
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Originally Posted by tyranuus View Post
Aye they're very close, that said, I know the anime highlighted certain other differences, Im not sure if the manga did as well, I cant remember, but bar the eyes and hair colour, if this is retained, then there are a few physical differences beyond the way they carry themselves. I can't remember whether it is mentioned in the manga or whether this is an anime only feature though.
IIRC, while the anime does exaggerate it a lot more, Inner Moka is "bigger" than Outer.
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Old 2010-04-06, 11:50   Link #13516
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IIRC, while the anime does exaggerate it a lot more, Inner Moka is "bigger" than Outer.
Ah I read them all really quickly (try remembering everything in 68 chapters read in 2.5 days heh), so I couldnt remember whether there had been a comment on this in the manga, I had a feeling it had been commented on by someone, but couldnt remember and didn't want to make a fact out of something that wasn't!

I.Moka almost acts and appears older in some ways to O.Moka, I almost wonder whether thats an allusion to her being sealed up when she was younger, and before that the more human side of her develop had had less chance to develop, so essentially acts and appears slightly younger, either that or to the I.Moka being the more vampiric/immortal version. Probably not but its an interesting thought.
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Old 2010-04-06, 11:51   Link #13517
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There's no physical change in Moka when she switches her personalities outside of hair and eyes in the manga, only the anime portrays an actual physical change.
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Old 2010-04-06, 11:58   Link #13518
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
There's no physical change in Moka when she switches her personalities outside of hair and eyes in the manga, only the anime portrays an actual physical change.
Didn't the author give the measurements for each of the girls? I remember there was a difference in the BWH for outer and inner.
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Old 2010-04-06, 12:41   Link #13519
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There's also the possibility she would let him fight and only step in if things got out of hand for this own training and development sake, she knows he's starting to reach the level where he can almost take care of himself, and I doubt Moka would want to impact that, she wants him to be self sufficient as much as possible, and letting him fight his own battles is a solid way of improving his own control and mastery of his body, she just wouldn't let it get to the point where he is seriously at risk.
After all, Tsukune is almost at the level he is now fast enough to see bullets, and much faster than your normal human, he has come a LONG way.
Theres also the possibility that they may have to go to seperate locations at least temporarily in the near future, especially if her family has become involved.
Well you're statements are certainly true, but there is still the mater of the other girls having no chances with getting Tsukune and in this kind of manga the author is probably going to keep with the romance aspect being unresolved for as long as he can.

Regarding Tsukune strength ... well while it's true that he has come a long way he hasn't reached his full potential yet. He still depends on the Holy Lock as well so I think that we haven't reached the end of him developing his abilities further as well as Tsukune gaining control over ... the darker aspect of his vampire abilities.
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Old 2010-04-06, 13:23   Link #13520
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Originally Posted by cors8 View Post
Didn't the author give the measurements for each of the girls? I remember there was a difference in the BWH for outer and inner.
Um, I think I would remember this since I'm a perv and such information would be relevant to me
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