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Old 2010-04-07, 09:53   Link #13541
tyranuus
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Wow, this all seems like a lot of conjecture, given how little we know, especially as translated 29 hasn't been released yet.
I do hope its not something as strange as the O.Moka is basically her mums personality though, or something equally as off kilter, not only is that decidedly wierd, but also means Tsukune is stuck in pretty horrible position!

I'm happy to go with the Rosary sealing memories, but sealing the mother etc... until I see proof otherwise, Im gonna stick with I/O both being part of Moka, I just dont think theres enough evidence, and am not sure I particularly like where that might take the story if that was the case. The Harem needs resolved, not Tsukune's relationships being turned even more into a hellishly complicated affair!

Hopefully we wont get any cop-outs either. I could believe her mum might have dissapeared though to try and protect Moka, and left the Rosary perhaps to try and help her in the future/grow stronger though, or it might hold some memories and information to help her when she becomes old/strong enough to know. If it was created by the exorcist who was a friend of Moka's mum, to leave as a keepsake and aid in the future, I could perhaps see this being more correct, rather than it actually containing Mummy Nescafe's 'spirit'.
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Old 2010-04-07, 10:02   Link #13542
Chris38
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Originally Posted by Waven View Post
you are right... it is weird ... she has to have a mother somehow, that is if the author doesn't pull a " magically created" cheese on us

that sounds more plausible to me, especially since the timing of the mother's disappearance and the appearance of the rosario at the same point seems to be too constructed to be just coincidence. Her mother looking like outer is another evidence as it has been stated before. Still I wouldn't go as far as to say Outer is actually Inner's mother per se but a part of her personality or something along the line.
Well, I think that might be a possibility though ... what could be the reason for Moka's mother to do something like that. Furthermore we still don't know everything about Moka's seal. Furthermore it would suggest that Outer Moka isn't a part of Inner Moka's personality ... and as I remember it has been shown a few times that Inner Moka also posses aspects of Outer Moka's personality (for example the smile she gave to Tsukune after he has eaten her pie)

I agree that there might be something more in the similarity between Outer Moka and her mom as well and that leaving the Rosario at the same time that Moka's mother disappears might be more then coexistence , but I wouldn't make too much theories regarding that, especially since we even don't know yet ... what kind of a person Moka's mother was.
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Old 2010-04-07, 10:04   Link #13543
tyranuus
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Exactly, at the moment its all wild theories, with very little to back them up. Until we see an explanation or some obvious hints appear, there are a LOT of ways this could run.
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Old 2010-04-07, 10:14   Link #13544
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The best part about theories: waiting for the translations and future chapters to blow them out of the water (and there are a few that need to be blown out of the water)

and one more thing: the exorcist FIXED the rosario, not created it... the only hint we have of him creating anything is the holy lock, and even then he was only seen giving it to Tsukune, and his statement of it supposedly "not being meant for him"
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Old 2010-04-07, 10:17   Link #13545
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Originally Posted by Waven View Post
you are right... it is weird ... she has to have a mother somehow, that is if the author doesn't pull a " magically created" cheese on us
.
I m not saying she doesnt have a mother, its just her mother is long dead, or she herself is Daddy Starbuck's wife or Inner Moka is the mother, Nah...forget it doesnt make sense...I give up
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Old 2010-04-07, 10:50   Link #13546
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I can't keep up with all these conspiracy theories
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Old 2010-04-07, 11:08   Link #13547
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I Just found the perfect song for Mizore x Tsukune(or me)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNzPwGQhddM "Stalker" by Goldfinger

"I wonna marry my Stalker!~"

well i found a AMV of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0XoQQxuKD8
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Old 2010-04-07, 12:07   Link #13548
FriedRice84
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How about this weird theory which shouldnt be possible but anyways, I was thinking maybe Moka's mother doesn't even exist? Maybe Moka is the mother? Hold on that didnt come out right, I mean maybe Moka is the wife of Daddy Starbucks? I mean she has looked for her mother for a while, hasnt she? And still couldnt find her, maybe its coz the mother didnt even exist in the first place?
Wow, uh, yeah that's a weird one!

I think it's impossible that Omote is the mom or Daddy Starbuck's wife. Not only would that be extremely complicated for the mangaka to explain, it would also make Tsukune and Moka's relationship pretty messed up. It would've have been the mom hitting on Tsukune and Ura-chan had to watch or something.

it sounds so messed up I don't even know how to come up with a coherent explanation of why it's impossible for Omote to be the mom!
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Old 2010-04-07, 12:27   Link #13549
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The fact that both Kokoa and Karua recognized outer Moka as Moka and not as the mom, debunks any crazy theories on Outer = Mom. It's just too farfetched and cracked out to even be considered.
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Old 2010-04-07, 12:40   Link #13550
tyranuus
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Amen, as I said already, thats a bit too freaky to be true unless the Mangaka really does have some sort of strange freudean headcase!
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Old 2010-04-07, 14:43   Link #13551
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Well, HayashiTakara I believe that it has been mentioned in the R+V guidebook, and the part about body measurements of most of the girls in Tsukune's harem, was even posted here ...

I even managed to find the post in question for you, the link to it is http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...ostcount=10403

If you look under the spoiler tag you will see that the BWH measurements for Inner and Outer Moka are different.
There was one Really interesting list on the comment you linked there...

Here's their comparisons: Each number (1 to 5) represents a threat "level"
Tsukune = 1
Tsukune (ghoul) = 4
Moka = 5
Kurumu = 3
Mizore = 3
Yukari = 4
Ginei = 5
Yukari's father = 4
Kuyou (fox dude) = 5
Doppleganger (pictured as Kurumu) = 4
Ishigami (Medusa lady) = 4
Jack Frost = 3

This is interesting and all, but... WHAT THE HELL?!?! Yukaris level of threath is 4?!?... so she is even more powerfull with those iron cards of hers than Mizore and Kumuru? (especialy Kumuru.. I mean she has her seduction... or what ever it's called)

whats ya think?
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Old 2010-04-07, 14:57   Link #13552
tyranuus
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Could be referring to the crazy inventions she comes up with, and danger level because A) Shes probably going to be a pretty strong witch when she's older and B) She's crazy smart.
Especially as I doubt she's magically/control-wise as strong as her dad yet.

It's also quite possible those threat levels aren't up to date, or may change in the future, I can certainly see Tsukune's Ghoul/Vampiric/Hybrid form becoming stronger than he's listed as, I mean can you really see fully mind-****ed, possessed Tsukune losing to Yukari, or his form when he learns full control; he's regularly been getting stronger as the series progresses after all!

In otherwords the list is subject to change, and isn't really detailed enough. Also, I dunno, but I doubt Kuyou would be anywhere as tough to defeat as he used to be, given the progression rate for various characters, I'd say Moka has probably surpassed him by now (she was only unable to beat him because she had sacrificed a considerable portion of her blood to try and save Tsukune), and perhaps even Tsukune could beat him by himself nowadays, given he has a lot more control and strength than he used to, and we know he is MUCH faster than normal in his unleashed form, compared to the foes we've seen since, Kuyou just doesn't seem that strong anymore.

Perhaps there will be Tsukune (UNKNOWN) = * entry if this is ever updated anywhere heh
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Last edited by tyranuus; 2010-04-07 at 15:08.
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Old 2010-04-07, 16:37   Link #13553
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Moka kicked a Phoenix in the face, I'm pretty sure she can 1HKO know-your-place Kuyou too. Anyone else notice that nobody's got a threat level #2? And what the hell, Jack Frost can FIGHT!?
Quote:
Wow, this all seems like a lot of conjecture, given how little we know, especially as translated 29 hasn't been released yet.
In case anyone's wondering, this is why I haven't been participating in the ch.29 convo yet
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Old 2010-04-07, 17:06   Link #13554
tyranuus
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Don't blame you, Im just commenting on what I've read, until we've read the thing its kinda hard to make any great statement.

Actually am I the only one who almost wishes when Tsukune peaks, there is like a time warp chapter/end of chapter extra, where he goes back and we see how he deals with all the old big bads, with his newly powered up hybrid form for a bit of revenge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
I Just found the perfect song for Mizore x Tsukune(or me)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNzPwGQhddM "Stalker" by Goldfinger

"I wonna marry my Stalker!~"

well i found a AMV of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0XoQQxuKD8
Haha yeah thats pretty suitable.
Another one that comes to mind that might be quite funny is Avril Lavigne's Girlfriend, from the PoV of one of the other girls (Kurumu/Mizore? The words seem quite appropriate hehe).
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Last edited by tyranuus; 2010-04-07 at 17:31.
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Old 2010-04-07, 18:58   Link #13555
HayashiTakara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged View Post
There was one Really interesting list on the comment you linked there...

Here's their comparisons: Each number (1 to 5) represents a threat "level"
Tsukune = 1
Tsukune (ghoul) = 4
Moka = 5
Kurumu = 3
Mizore = 3
Yukari = 4
Ginei = 5
Yukari's father = 4
Kuyou (fox dude) = 5
Doppleganger (pictured as Kurumu) = 4
Ishigami (Medusa lady) = 4
Jack Frost = 3

This is interesting and all, but... WHAT THE HELL?!?! Yukaris level of threath is 4?!?... so she is even more powerfull with those iron cards of hers than Mizore and Kumuru? (especialy Kumuru.. I mean she has her seduction... or what ever it's called)

whats ya think?
The statistics is old, it's only based up to a certain point in the story. Now that Tsukune has gone through training I'm sure his threat level is higher now.
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Old 2010-04-07, 19:11   Link #13556
kenjiharima
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I was thinking of something....

Morigan and Lilith are sisters, yet Lilith is another part of Morigan which exist to be entirely a different personal(a loli that likes men) and in the end both of them are fused together. Probably something happened to Inner Moka and Momma needed to sacrifice her body to let her live,

I could be wrong....
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Old 2010-04-07, 19:26   Link #13557
FriedRice84
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Originally Posted by kenjiharima View Post
I was thinking of something....

Morigan and Lilith are sisters, yet Lilith is another part of Morigan which exist to be entirely a different personal(a loli that likes men) and in the end both of them are fused together. Probably something happened to Inner Moka and Momma needed to sacrifice her body to let her live,

I could be wrong....
I don't know much about the Darkstalkers series but I did read some things about a few of the characters. Lilith was created from Morrigan to split Morrigan's powers. Morrigan was too powerful and her power was split. Part of it remained in Morrigan and another part was sealed away in another dimension where it eventually became Lilith. They are the same person with different personalities and bodies. In a sense, they're kinda like Omote and Ura-chan but the Moka's share a body. As far as their personalities go, we'll find out soon enough where Omote came from - whether she's created from hidden aspects of Moka's true personality or she came from somewhere else.

I think what you're suggesting is different from what happened to Morrigan and Lilith. The scenario you suggested is kinda like what happened to Musubi from Sekirei. Something happened to Musubi and Yume but Yume gave up her soul to keep Musubi alive. Now Yume exists inside Musubi but she comes out once in a while when Musubi gets really lovey-dovey with Minato.
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Old 2010-04-08, 01:31   Link #13558
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The Guidebook was published in Dec 2008, according to Amazon Japan. I'm still looking for a copy in the states but haven't yet.

From what I could read of ch 29 (obviously not a ton), I don't think these questions about Moka's mom will be resolved in this chapter. Already waiting for ch 30...
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Old 2010-04-08, 05:58   Link #13559
tyranuus
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Yep, does sound like it from a translation summary I just read, although the summary did mention that they are shown together and look very similar, rather than the mum/daughter being the same person.

Looking forward to actually reading it myself though
Sounds like the older sister is called Akua (Aqua) though continuing the drink/liquid naming scheme.

I mean personally, rather than them being the same person, another plausible possibility is that Moka's mother was killed/banished when she was young because she would change Moka's perspective.

Moka was recognised as being potentially the strongest of the children, and it could be that Moka's mum was more tolerant, or inclined towards peace/harmony between Humanity/Monsters. It may be a case of Daddy Starbucks and the older children were already signed up on the side of Fairy Tail, and because this attitude didn't gel well with thiers, or developing Moka into the character they wanted, and acted as an impediment, she was removed. The memories were sealed up within Moka so she would develop as expected and wouldn't become hostile/break away from the family.
She was then sent to a human school where she was hated which could have been intended, to help mould her into someone willing to join up with them, afterall before she met Tsukune she hated humanity, it was only when he became her friend her opinion changed and she realised humans weren't as bad as she had thought.

Now this viewpoint would mean Tsukune is not going to be popular, because he's ruined quite a few years of planning!

Haha, seriously theres just as much evidence for this take on events as the O.M = mum thing, and Im not convinced either of them will happen!
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Last edited by tyranuus; 2010-04-08 at 06:22.
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Old 2010-04-08, 06:21   Link #13560
kenjiharima
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Originally Posted by FriedRice84 View Post
I don't know much about the Darkstalkers series but I did read some things about a few of the characters. Lilith was created from Morrigan to split Morrigan's powers. Morrigan was too powerful and her power was split. Part of it remained in Morrigan and another part was sealed away in another dimension where it eventually became Lilith. They are the same person with different personalities and bodies. In a sense, they're kinda like Omote and Ura-chan but the Moka's share a body. As far as their personalities go, we'll find out soon enough where Omote came from - whether she's created from hidden aspects of Moka's true personality or she came from somewhere else.

I think what you're suggesting is different from what happened to Morrigan and Lilith. The scenario you suggested is kinda like what happened to Musubi from Sekirei. Something happened to Musubi and Yume but Yume gave up her soul to keep Musubi alive. Now Yume exists inside Musubi but she comes out once in a while when Musubi gets really lovey-dovey with Minato.
It could be something similar to DarkStalkers and Sekirei, but I guess R+V author Ikeda might have something else in mind. Our main focus would be on the eldest that she might have something to do about it. Also daddy Starbucks comes into play here and timline this only happened a few years back or probably 10 since the gang are teenagers and here the're kids probably 5 to 7 years old.
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