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Old 2010-04-10, 04:34   Link #6821
SaintessHeart
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
My first thought as well, but just because his plane crashed in Russia doesn't necessarily mean the Russians had anything to do with it.
If I am not wrong, they have pretty hand-wringing relationships with Russia, stemming back from the overthrow of the commies in 1989. And the missile shield a few years back was another creampie in the Kremlin's face.
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Old 2010-04-10, 04:47   Link #6822
killer3000ad
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It's not just the President who died, apparently the entire higher Polish Armed Forces Commanders were on the plane as well
-Chief of the General Staff of the Polish Armed Forces General Gagor
-Commander of Army General Buk
-Commander of Navy Admiral Karweta
-Commander of Air Forces General Blasik
-Commander of Special Forces General Potasinski
-Operational Commander of Armed Forces general Kwiatkowski
-Commander of the Warsaw Military Area general Gilarski
-Ryszard Kaczorowski, the last President of the Polish government-in-exile
-Jerzy Szmajdziński, Deputy Speaker of the Sejm
-Władysław Stasiak, Chief of the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
-Aleksander Szczygło, head of the National Security Bureau
-Paweł Wypych, Secretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
-Mariusz Handzlik, Undersecretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
-Andrzej Kremer, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs
-Sławomir Skrzypek, President of the National Bank of Poland

12 members of the Sejm(lower house of Polish parliament) also on board.

That's alot of high ranking people to lose at once. I mean most of Polands upper echelon(civilian and military) have been lost.

EDIT: wikipedia article has the full list of VIPs on board.
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Old 2010-04-10, 06:42   Link #6823
Roger Rambo
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...Jesus Christ. I'd heard that the plane with the President had gone down...but you're saying that all the top ranking civil/military leadership was there to?

This may all just be an accident, but if there was something insidious going on it's probably the most effective decapitation strikes I've ever heard of.
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Old 2010-04-10, 07:02   Link #6824
SaintessHeart
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So who's ready for the Polish Russian conflict of 2010? A decade into the new millennium, and we have another war brewing.

I have to admit, this sounds really fishy. An accident like that is not supposed to happen : those official government airlines don't make these kind of mistakes.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-04-10, 07:26   Link #6825
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
So who's ready for the Polish Russian conflict of 2010? A decade into the new millennium, and we have another war brewing.

I have to admit, this sounds really fishy. An accident like that is not supposed to happen : those official government airlines don't make these kind of mistakes.
And yet, the plane was said to be rather old (20 year or more), the fact than the russian authority suggested to land at elsewhere because of the weather and the pilot crached on his 4th try, it make me think than it was a accindent.

But yes, it was rather a good occcasion for beheading Poland and the fact than the russian could easely errase ''proof'' as the plane crached on their territory are good fuel for conspiracy theory...
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Old 2010-04-10, 07:35   Link #6826
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
And yet, the plane was said to be rather old (20 year or more), the fact than the russian authority suggested to land at elsewhere because of the weather and the pilot crached on his 4th try, it make me think than it was a accindent.

But yes, it was rather a good occcasion for beheading Poland and the fact than the russian could easely errase ''proof'' as the plane crached on their territory are good fuel for conspiracy theory...
The control tower. "Landing elsewhere" sounds funny to me.

Anyway why the heck are all of them flying in the same jet? And why isn't the PM onboard?
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-04-10, 07:58   Link #6827
Nyat
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And why isn't the PM onboard?
Because those two ducks don't like each other.
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Old 2010-04-10, 09:33   Link #6828
Joojoobees
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Originally Posted by monir View Post
The article is indeed ornamental in many ways. It sugarcoats a lot about a technology that has yet to be field tested in any congealed form, and yet the HP is promising there will be some kind of hardware available based on memristor in the next 4 years or so. Optimism at its highest.
Companies seem to put out these extremely optimistic "product" announcements to manipulate the market. In this case, probably the stock market, but in many cases companies announce "products" (vaporware) with the clear intention of making consumers hesitate from buying a competitor's real product. I think the practice is cynical.
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Old 2010-04-10, 10:28   Link #6829
ClockWorkAngel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post
It's not just the President who died, apparently the entire higher Polish Armed Forces Commanders were on the plane as well
-Chief of the General Staff of the Polish Armed Forces General Gagor
-Commander of Army General Buk
-Commander of Navy Admiral Karweta
-Commander of Air Forces General Blasik
-Commander of Special Forces General Potasinski
-Operational Commander of Armed Forces general Kwiatkowski
-Commander of the Warsaw Military Area general Gilarski
-Ryszard Kaczorowski, the last President of the Polish government-in-exile
-Jerzy Szmajdziński, Deputy Speaker of the Sejm
-Władysław Stasiak, Chief of the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
-Aleksander Szczygło, head of the National Security Bureau
-Paweł Wypych, Secretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
-Mariusz Handzlik, Undersecretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
-Andrzej Kremer, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs
-Sławomir Skrzypek, President of the National Bank of Poland

12 members of the Sejm(lower house of Polish parliament) also on board.

That's alot of high ranking people to lose at once. I mean most of Polands upper echelon(civilian and military) have been lost.

EDIT: wikipedia article has the full list of VIPs on board.
Holy crap, all of those people gone in one go?

If it is the FSB, I think they've pulled something incredible off. But I don't really think that it'd be in Russia's best interest to go opennly invade Russia. Unless they're in cahoots with the PM...
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Old 2010-04-10, 10:54   Link #6830
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClockWorkAngel View Post
Holy crap, all of those people gone in one go?

If it is the FSB, I think they've pulled something incredible off. But I don't really think that it'd be in Russia's best interest to go opennly invade Russia. Unless they're in cahoots with the PM...
The fall of the USSR started with East Germany and Poland if I am not wrong according to historical timelines. With the weakening of US power in the globe, I think Russia is making a snatch back before China starts asserting its political influence over the East.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-04-10, 12:15   Link #6831
Crimson Reaper
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Well Polish politics has just taken a massive turn that's for sure. I heard that they tried to land whilst in heavy fog, what self respecting pilot would land in such bad conditions?

And another thing to note, why would so many important people travel on the same plane? It's normal practice that political and military parties travel as seperate as possible because of situations like this. Were they trying to save money or something? It's a major blunder.

Even though this is most likely an accident of truely tragic proportions, lots of people will be screaming conspiracy about this. My condolences to the families of the dead.
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Old 2010-04-10, 13:52   Link #6832
Crontica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClockWorkAngel View Post
Holy crap, all of those people gone in one go?

If it is the FSB, I think they've pulled something incredible off. But I don't really think that it'd be in Russia's best interest to go opennly invade Russia. Unless they're in cahoots with the PM...
Just in from digg.com: It appears the president's wife was also on board the plane. this is one conspiratorial accident alright, is the Polish economy suddenly going to crash tomorrow? civil war? 4/11?



Update:
apparently Kaczynski ordered the pilot to land 4 times
This has allready happened before few years ago, but the pilot refused and Kaczynski threatened to kick him out of the airforce. Apparently this time he had a more servile one

Air force Control Tower: Land at nearby airport, current destination is hazardous due to heavy fog.

Pilot: I can handle it! (Failed on his forth try...)
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Last edited by Crontica; 2010-04-10 at 14:19.
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Old 2010-04-10, 17:30   Link #6833
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crontica View Post
Update:
apparently Kaczynski ordered the pilot to land 4 times
This has allready happened before few years ago, but the pilot refused and Kaczynski threatened to kick him out of the airforce. Apparently this time he had a more servile one

Air force Control Tower: Land at nearby airport, current destination is hazardous due to heavy fog.

Pilot: I can handle it! (Failed on his forth try...)
Where is the pilot's code of ethics? He should have shown the middle finger and continue circling.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-04-10, 17:52   Link #6834
Dilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crontica View Post
Just in from digg.com: It appears the president's wife was also on board the plane. this is one conspiratorial accident alright, is the Polish economy suddenly going to crash tomorrow? civil war? 4/11?



Update:
apparently Kaczynski ordered the pilot to land 4 times
This has allready happened before few years ago, but the pilot refused and Kaczynski threatened to kick him out of the airforce. Apparently this time he had a more servile one

Air force Control Tower: Land at nearby airport, current destination is hazardous due to heavy fog.

Pilot: I can handle it! (Failed on his forth try...)
Got a link for the update? I want to post it on another forum I frequent.
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Old 2010-04-10, 20:35   Link #6835
justsomeguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Where is the pilot's code of ethics? He should have shown the middle finger and continue circling.
Code of ethics would have put him on the shit list of ~40 powerful government officials. He probably decided to take the risk of dying rather than the certainty of having to flee his home country.
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Old 2010-04-10, 21:40   Link #6836
Claies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
So who's ready for the Polish Russian conflict of 2010? A decade into the new millennium, and we have another war brewing.

I have to admit, this sounds really fishy. An accident like that is not supposed to happen : those official government airlines don't make these kind of mistakes.
The Polish leadership *have* been told multiple times that they should upgrade their fleet. Now why they'd fly every head of the armed forces and 10 of the highest-ranked politicians of the country on the same old plane is unfathomable.

But several things... it's a Russian-produced airliner, therefore maintenance was last performed in Russia. That's one point of intrusion.

Seen through less cynical eyes, it does seem that Russia is scrambling to accommodate every need of Poland right now, since they're apparently trying to repair relations with them.
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Old 2010-04-11, 02:21   Link #6837
Crontica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilla View Post
Got a link for the update? I want to post it on another forum I frequent.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/8612825.stm

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/04/10...n-plane-crash/
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Old 2010-04-11, 07:45   Link #6838
Bri
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Seems a bit far fetched to blame the airplane just because it's 20 years old. Air Force 1 is just as old and the average age of the Air Force is 23.5 years. A government plane is probably well maintained.

Tupolev Tu-154s get withdrawn from service because they are not very economical in use, but their safety record isn't bad, especially since on average they operate under harsher conditions then comparable type of aircraft.

The news so far seems to point to pilot taking to much risk to land under poor weather conditions.
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Old 2010-04-11, 09:23   Link #6839
Eraser
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My deepest condolences to the Polish people. Shame on those who try to blame Russia, we do not have any benefits for the death of the President of the Republic of Poland, whose presidential term ends soon. Russian Federation - this is not the Stalinist Soviet Union.
Polish investigators have already arrived at the crash site and are working together with Russian investigators on clarifying the causes of the disaster. April 12 in our country is declared a day of national mourning in solidarity with the Poles in our common grief.
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Old 2010-04-11, 10:13   Link #6840
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Lech Kaczynski was going to run for re-election in September for another 5 year term, but now that he has died an early election must be held within 60 days. Interestingly, the person running against Lech was Bronislaw Komorowski, who became acting-president in his capacity as Speaker of the Sejm upon Lech's death.

Lech was widely expected to lose re-election. He and his identical twin brother, who was prime minister from 2006-2007, were nicknamed "terrible twins" because their Law and Justice party was seen as too extremist. I wonder if Lech's brother Jaroslaw will now run for president to succeed his brother, and if there will be a sympathy vote for Law and Justice because of the plane crash.
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