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Old 2010-04-14, 20:54   Link #8081
Renall
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I don't think Maria's death would have been caused by Rosa. The insinuation with her death (and the deaths of Krauss and Natsuhi) is a deliberate strangling. This isn't The Simpsons, I don't think Rosa would go so far as to actually clasp her hands around Maria's neck and squeeze. Hit her yes, push her around yes, but whoever killed Maria was trying to kill her. Even if Rosa's death was an accident (or accidental in a struggle), Maria's wasn't.
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Old 2010-04-14, 21:01   Link #8082
SeagullCrazy
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Well if we're to beleive what happens afterward Hideysohi and Rudolf probably get into some kind of duel. So I wonder why exactly Hideyoshi was invited then?
To bring back more food, since there was no need to fear getting killed.
But Hideyoshi found out Rudolf was the killer and attacked him...?
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Old 2010-04-14, 21:03   Link #8083
chronotrig
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To bring back more food, since there was no need to fear getting killed.
But Hideyoshi found out Rudolf was the killer and attacked him...?
How could that have happened? Rudolf doesn't seem the type to confess that sort of thing, and I doubt Hideyoshi would have shot him on the spot even if he did.
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Old 2010-04-14, 21:04   Link #8084
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
I don't think Maria's death would have been caused by Rosa. The insinuation with her death (and the deaths of Krauss and Natsuhi) is a deliberate strangling. This isn't The Simpsons, I don't think Rosa would go so far as to actually clasp her hands around Maria's neck and squeeze. Hit her yes, push her around yes, but whoever killed Maria was trying to kill her. Even if Rosa's death was an accident (or accidental in a struggle), Maria's wasn't.
Well, if we ignore Rosa, then only Rudolf, Nanjo, or Eva could have killed Maria, right?
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Old 2010-04-14, 21:04   Link #8085
Judoh
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Yeah Rosa doing it sounds more like an awkward to me.

Regarding that red though doesn't it sound like she's saying multiple people killed Maria and Rosa? It's not like usual where she says "I killed them". She's saying "they were killed by other people". She's not even saying the other Beatrice did it just that other people were behind it.
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Old 2010-04-14, 21:05   Link #8086
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Yeah Rosa doing it sounds more like an awkward to me.

Regarding that red though doesn't it sound like she's saying multiple people killed Maria and Rosa? It's not like usual where she says "I killed them". She's saying "they were killed by other people".
That was Ronove who said that, I believe.

Anyway, even if Rudolf was the one who killed Rosa, I can't see him throttling a child just to shut her up. He's too... calm for that.
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Old 2010-04-14, 21:07   Link #8087
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That was Ronove who said that, I believe.
Well Okay that's true, but Ronove said he can't say anything in red that Beatrice couldn't say.
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Old 2010-04-14, 21:09   Link #8088
chronotrig
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Well Okay that's true, but Ronove said he can't say anything in red that Beatrice couldn't say.
All that line says is that the deaths fell under the category of homicide. As in, for each person, some person other than the person who died was responsible for that person's death. No need to read into it more than that.
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Old 2010-04-14, 21:13   Link #8089
SeagullCrazy
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How could that have happened? Rudolf doesn't seem the type to confess that sort of thing, and I doubt Hideyoshi would have shot him on the spot even if he did.
The same way we just figured it out.

And didn't Kyrie take Hideyoshi's gun? What if he became suspicious and attacked Rudolf out of fear? Two wolves with guns, one sheep. He could have used a knife to kill Rudolf, then Kyrie put the stakes in later.

...although I can't say I'm totally confident in this.
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Old 2010-04-14, 21:22   Link #8090
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The same way we just figured it out.
Sorry, I must have missed that part.

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Originally Posted by SeagullCrazy View Post
The same way we just figured it out.

And didn't Kyrie take Hideyoshi's gun? What if he became suspicious and attacked Rudolf out of fear? Two wolves with guns, one sheep. He could have used a knife to kill Rudolf, then Kyrie put the stakes in later.

...although I can't say I'm totally confident in this.
I seriously doubt that Hideyoshi could drive a knife into someone's skull. And if you're suggesting that he knifed him somewhere else, then why would Kyrie split her own husband's skull open? It's not like she really has anything to gain by using the stakes, anyways.
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Old 2010-04-14, 21:23   Link #8091
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Stupid stakes and their stupid questionable existence! Where the hell are they popping out of nowhere from!?
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Old 2010-04-14, 21:25   Link #8092
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Stupid stakes and their stupid questionable existence! Where the hell are they popping out of nowhere from!?
Everyone in Umienko has a pathological aversion to looking in closets.
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Old 2010-04-14, 21:28   Link #8093
SeagullCrazy
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Sorry, I must have missed that part.
If Rudolf was the one to discover the corpses, then he could easily be a suspect right?

Quote:
I seriously doubt that Hideyoshi could drive a knife into someone's skull. And if you're suggesting that he knifed him somewhere else, then why would Kyrie split her own husband's skull open? It's not like she really has anything to gain by using the stakes, anyways.
Most of what I'm saying is that it all escalated from paranoia and coincidences into murder.

...although that was why I'm losing confidence in it anyway.

EDIT:

I was kind of assuming that the real murderer (Beatrice) died in the first twilight, so there wouldn't be any more murders.
But murders happened because of coincidences and such, then were made to look like a continuation of Beatrice's murders
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Old 2010-04-14, 21:30   Link #8094
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Everyone in Umienko has a pathological aversion to looking in closets.
The stakes belonged to Kinzo, right?

It'd make sense that he might have stored them somewhere special... like, maybe, the chapel?
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Old 2010-04-14, 21:33   Link #8095
Judoh
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The stakes belonged to Kinzo, right?

It'd make sense that he might have stored them somewhere special... like, maybe, the chapel?
DO THEY belong to him? I'm not entirely sure who they belong to.

I sometimes even question if they exist.
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Old 2010-04-14, 21:36   Link #8096
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DO THEY belong to him? I'm not entirely sure who they belong to.

I sometimes even question if they exist.
Dlanor says in the Ep5 tea party that Kinzo bought them from some American con artist. It's not in red, but they were going to deny the stakes with that information, so...

As for their existence, Battler has both seen and held the stakes, so they're definitely real.
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Old 2010-04-14, 21:37   Link #8097
Judoh
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Dlanor says in the Ep5 tea party that Kinzo bought them from some American con artist. It's not in red, but they were going to deny the stakes with that information, so...

As for their existence, Battler has both seen and held the stakes, so they're definitely real.
In episode 4. And he's only held maybe one or two at a time. He's never gathered all seven together, which makes me think that only a few actually exist if any of them do exist at any given time.
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Old 2010-04-14, 21:38   Link #8098
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I've got a question. Doesn't it seem odd, that people are staked by the same stake? Could it be that the stake is pointing out that person's sin.
Example; Jessica was staked by Asmodeus (Lust), which she is lusting after Kanon in a way. Kanon is always staked by Satan (Wrath) he shows he hates Gohda, and doesn't like Natsuhi (but he feels pity for her.. if we can take ep6 in account)
Could the stakes maybe give us a clue to certain characters?
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Old 2010-04-14, 21:42   Link #8099
Marion
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I've got a question. Doesn't it seem odd, that people are staked by the same stake? Could it be that the stake is pointing out that person's sin.
Example; Jessica was staked by Asmodeus (Lust), which she is lusting after Kanon in a way. Kanon is always staked by Satan (Wrath) he shows he hates Gohda, and doesn't like Natsuhi (but he feels pity for her.. if we can take ep6 in account)
Could the stakes maybe give us a clue to certain characters?
Well yeah, that is the general idea - the stake that is used can correlate to the person's sin. Even when Belphegor and Leviathan's stakes were gone, Rudolf and Kyrie were staked with their 'secondary' sin (Lust and Greed, respectively)

Although then you have some weird choices that don't make sense at all (Hideyoshi was staked by Lucifer in EP 5 for example). Also, the order of staking =/= order of death either (Kinzo died before everyone there, but in EP 1 he was staked 4th). It could be a red herring after all in the end.
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Old 2010-04-14, 21:43   Link #8100
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We've been through that already. It was a actually the first thing people thought of. It never got us anywhere that's why I ignore that kind of logic.
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