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View Poll Results: Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood - Episode 52 Rating
Perfect 10 43 66.15%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 17 26.15%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 5 7.69%
7 out of 10 : Good 0 0%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-04-15, 09:46   Link #81
Dead Cake
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Heat is like one of the most basic concepts of physics, it's just particles moving/rubing against each other that an accelerated rate, of course there's the need of oxygen as well.
Actually Mustang's alchemy has very little to do with heat or even fire. If I remember correctly he creates a spark with his gloves and uses alchemy to control the flow of oxygen/air. He's more like "Air Alchemist".
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Old 2010-04-15, 09:47   Link #82
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That's why he's impudent in the rain.
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Old 2010-04-15, 10:06   Link #83
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Well, obviously it isn't as simple as "rub some atoms together" to do it, since the only ones we've seem deal with flame are Mustang and Kimblee. And arguably Kimblee wouldn't count, since he's probably just using the ambient materials to form something that automatically combusts in atmosphere, or more likely, creating dual substances (notice the symbols on his hands are different from each other) that when added together explode. Mustang is straight up directing flame.

Note that he's not creating it, only directing it. That's why he has the spark gloves. In fact we've yet to see an alchemist create heat or cold, if memory serves (first anime doesn't count). So lava's probably out.

And Ed doesn't appear to be able to do anything, but pretty much just stuff we'd already seen that he could do beforehand, with the only difference being no need for a circle. Even the transmuting with a Stone, which he adapted to using his own soul like a Stone, appears to have been something he (and all other Amestrian alchemists) had been doing unwittingly for generations.
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Old 2010-04-15, 11:00   Link #84
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Totally forgot about Loki's save there and May continues to kick butt for the little screentime she gets each episode (not that I'm complaining, with so many characters it's amazing how many do get screentime in the first place).
And, since I just did a quick check, and Funi is going to be releasing the 13 episode sets as Blu-Rays as well I'm really going to try and get those instead of the regular DVDs. And I don't care if I get a full box set or just the packs, by the time I have money for all of them the box set will probably be out and I'll be able to snatch the packs up at a lower price!
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Old 2010-04-15, 14:22   Link #85
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Ed has already been proven to be really smart, I'm sure he can figure it out if he took the time to.

If he doesn't know how to create fire or whatever, and just use "earth elemental" alchemy than when faced with massive numbers he can do something like split the earth open causing them all to fall than close it back up crushing them. He's even done dozens of earth spikes at once before IIRC, so something like that should be within reason.

Meh, I know I'm asking too much but I just think the author is down playing Edwards limitless potential.
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Old 2010-04-15, 17:24   Link #86
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Ed has already been proven to be really smart, I'm sure he can figure it out if he took the time to.

If he doesn't know how to create fire or whatever, and just use "earth elemental" alchemy than when faced with massive numbers he can do something like split the earth open causing them all to fall than close it back up crushing them. He's even done dozens of earth spikes at once before IIRC, so something like that should be within reason.

Meh, I know I'm asking too much but I just think the author is down playing Edwards limitless potential.
And there you have it. Ed's potential. I think a lot of people misunderstand that word. Potential isn't a current thing. It means what he could conceivably do in the future given the right circumstances, and in alchemy, those circumstances have to include the gain of knowledge. Apparently Truth didn't give that knowledge, or else Ed and Al would have been raining fire on Father for all of the last chapter. There are plenty of things present in Father's lair that could have been used to create sparks, after all (Mustang's gloves, for one, but any number of substances that could have been banged against each other). This suggests to me that Mustang's flame alchemy is fairly unique, and possibly outside of even Father's experiences.
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Old 2010-04-15, 21:12   Link #87
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It also has to do with their style.

Each State Alchemist is given a military alias that more or less represents their specialty or reputation. For example, Mustang is the 'Flame Alchemist', a title which he has more than proven to be appropriate for him during the war with Ishbal.

Ed is known as the 'Full Metal Alchemist' (which, not surprisingly, confuses people to think that the fully plated Al is Edward), and in a way it shows with his automail limbs and his penchant for creating melee weapons such as spears and blades. But he also prefers to create obstacles, doors, use the ground to launch earthen arms, and so on.

Another thing to take note is that alchemy requires knowledge and insight into the innerworkings of matter in order to transmute it into some other form. Not all alchemists are doctors such as Marco, as there sre alchemists who specialize in areas of their own choosing.

I view Ed and Al as the 'general type'. They're not as focused on a particular way of doing things such as Mustang or Kimblee (and even Scar), but they tend to be more imaginative with alchemy depending on their situation. It's no doubt due to the way they were trained and taught by their teacher.
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Old 2010-04-16, 03:50   Link #88
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As I see it, alchemy goes beyond generally understanding how it works.

You know, Mustang himself isn't stupid either and yet it wasn't him who came up with the flame alchemy to begin with. He had to decode the instructions to be able to use it. It's unique and so it can be assumed it's hard to pull off. It's not just the ignition, but force, range and vector too after all. My guess would be, that igniting could be easily done by Ed, but for using fire with such precision and control a manual and practice is needed.

And Ed is amazing in his own right. Not specialized, but like it's already been said, he's very creative and uses whatever the situation equips him with.
Also Mustang never uses anything else but Ka-boom, he's extremely specialized. Normal Alchemists don't really have an option, they have to be specialists, since they can't carry dozens of alchemy arrays with them
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Old 2010-04-16, 13:33   Link #89
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As I see it, alchemy goes beyond generally understanding how it works.

You know, Mustang himself isn't stupid either and yet it wasn't him who came up with the flame alchemy to begin with. He had to decode the instructions to be able to use it. It's unique and so it can be assumed it's hard to pull off. It's not just the ignition, but force, range and vector too after all. My guess would be, that igniting could be easily done by Ed, but for using fire with such precision and control a manual and practice is needed.
Mustang doesn't use alchemy for the ignition. That's why he has the gloves. He can't create flame, just manipulate it. Far as I've seen, no alchemist has been able to use alchemy directly to create temperature change, only chemical change that leads to combustion (Kimblee).

And yes, you'd need to train yourself for Flame alchemy, since you're basically manipulating the invisible (the oxygen in the air).

Quote:
Originally Posted by zebra View Post
And Ed is amazing in his own right. Not specialized, but like it's already been said, he's very creative and uses whatever the situation equips him with.
Also Mustang never uses anything else but Ka-boom, he's extremely specialized. Normal Alchemists don't really have an option, they have to be specialists, since they can't carry dozens of alchemy arrays with them
Did you miss this episode? Mustang uses his alchemy for something other than "Ka-boom", when he transmutes the ice cream truck into a Central Meat truck. And previously he used it to create the fake Maria Ross that he torched. He's got no problem using other alchemy, and is quite skilled with it (he has more subtlety than Ed, at least), it's just with the speed and accuracy he has with his flame and predilection for being involved in fights, and with him generally being crafty enough to not need to throw alchemy around to solve his other problems, we don't see him whip out the chalk very often.
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Last edited by quigonkenny; 2010-04-17 at 00:03. Reason: Oops, spoiler. Forgot which thread I was in...
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Old 2010-04-16, 13:42   Link #90
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Hey quigonkenny you shouldn't talk about manga chapters without using spoiler tags. There are many anime-only watchers following this topic.
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Old 2010-04-16, 14:19   Link #91
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Did you miss this episode? Mustang uses his alchemy for something other than "Ka-boom", when he transmutes the ice cream truck into a Central Meat truck. And previously he used it to create the fake Maria Ross that he torched. He's got no problem using other alchemy, and is quite skilled with it (he has more subtlety than Ed, at least), it's just with the speed and accuracy he has with his flame and predilection for being involved in fights, and with him generally being crafty enough to not need to throw alchemy around to solve his other problems, we don't see him whip out the chalk very often.
Also, his has the circles on his gloves. In order to change the truck, he probably needed the time to draw the circle and all.
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Old 2010-04-16, 14:22   Link #92
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Hey quigonkenny you shouldn't talk about manga chapters without using spoiler tags. There are many anime-only watchers following this topic.
Everything quigonkenny said was already covered in Brotherhood. He's not spoiling anything.
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Old 2010-04-16, 14:37   Link #93
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Everything quigonkenny said was already covered in Brotherhood. He's not spoiling anything.
He said few things about chapter 105. They aren't huge spoilers but IMO he should be more careful just in case..
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Old 2010-04-16, 16:11   Link #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
Mustang doesn't use alchemy for the ignition. That's why he has the gloves. He can't create flame, just manipulate it. Far as I've seen, no alchemist has been able to use alchemy directly to create temperature change, only chemical change that leads to combustion (Kimblee).
You're right .
What I meant with ignition was not the creation of the spark, but it resulting in a real fire. So more the altering of the air, that allows that spark to become a flame than the snap.

I just wanted to point out that manipulating the flames like Roy does for combat might be the hard part - and not so much producing them in the first place.To manipulate air might be harder than the ground, but considering Ed being able to even use his own soul when he has a hole in his body, it's hard to believe that he isn't able to alter oxygen (and ignite it with a match ). Thus creating flames, but with no control over it whatsover, since he lacks the research and practice.


Can easily be wrong of course

Quote:
Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
He's got no problem using other alchemy, and is quite skilled with it (he has more subtlety than Ed, at least), it's just with the speed and accuracy he has with his flame and predilection for being involved in fights, and with him generally being crafty enough to not need to throw alchemy around to solve his other problems, we don't see him whip out the chalk very often.
Yeah right, I'm aware of that, but wasn't thinking about general use . I only had fights in mind. Doodling in the middle of a bout would be inconvenient. Of course he rarely is in need of anything else (unless he's outside and it's raining). Just pointed out his focus on one tool alone to contrast Edward, who uses whatever.

Last edited by zebra; 2010-04-18 at 11:00. Reason: removed spoiler
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Old 2010-04-16, 16:42   Link #95
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About Ed using his soul as an stone. To be fair, all he did was to patch himself just enough so that he wouldn't bleed to death, he didn't perform any great medical feat.
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Old 2010-04-17, 00:14   Link #96
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Hey quigonkenny you shouldn't talk about manga chapters without using spoiler tags. There are many anime-only watchers following this topic.
Gomen, gomen... Forgot which thread I was in...

Quote:
Originally Posted by zebra View Post
I just wanted to point out that manipulating the flames like Roy does for combat might be the hard part - and not so much producing them in the first place.To manipulate air might be harder than the ground, but considering Ed being able to even use his own soul when he has a hole in his body, it's hard to believe that he isn't able to alter oxygen (and ignite it with a match ). Thus creating flames, but with no control over it whatsover, since he lacks the research and practice.
I never said that Ed or Al wouldn't be able to do what Mustang does, and in fact he probably can. But that's not the kind of thing you even want to try the first time without some instructions to go by or an experienced guide. I imagine the popular theory explaining the scars on Riza's back is that it was to hide the secret to Flame Alchemy from being passed on. But it could also be a leftover from one or two of his less fortuitous training sessions, and might explain why he only uses a much simpler version of the array...

Besides, when has Ed had the time to even try to practice such a thing?

BTW, zebra, please edit your previous post to remove my manga spoiler from the quote.
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Old 2010-04-17, 07:33   Link #97
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Hey quigonkenny you shouldn't talk about manga chapters without using spoiler tags. There are many anime-only watchers following this topic.
That's exactly what I mean, especially for being obsessed with animes instead of just reading manga.
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Old 2010-04-17, 10:54   Link #98
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I imagine the popular theory explaining the scars on Riza's back is that it was to hide the secret to Flame Alchemy from being passed on. But it could also be a leftover from one or two of his less fortuitous training sessions, and might explain why he only uses a much simpler version of the array...
Spoiler for Manga?:
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Old 2010-04-17, 11:00   Link #99
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Spoiler for Manga?:
Yeah, that's correct, which is why the anime should have included this crucial little piece of information.
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Old 2010-04-17, 11:03   Link #100
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Yeah it's a pretty silly mistake that such important information was missed out in this adaptation. Just that information alone adds another layer to Roy's character.
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