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Old 2010-04-17, 13:12   Link #881
Iron21
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Miki back story is so lame, just like him. Its been done too many times.
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Old 2010-04-17, 13:42   Link #882
Wargumm1i
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Originally Posted by Iron21 View Post
Miki back story is so lame, just like him. Its been done too many times.

Indeed, I mean its obvious the reason why oga might have brushed him off roughly is too stop him from getting more involved in something that Oga was currently in at the time which might have bin dangerous.

Also If anyone here at the forums are getting nervous over one punch in the stomach and ones on the knees, they think Oga is done?

Ohhh god...... Noobs, this is just getting started, that was a warm up.
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Old 2010-04-17, 14:09   Link #883
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I think the author's gonna smash the cliche and have Oga beat Miki to a pulp with no need for flashbacks. Oga is above manly friendship, all hail the demon king!
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Old 2010-04-17, 14:12   Link #884
Poetic Justice
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I've said this before but this manga is just a whole lot of rehashing of established shounen plots. Maybe Jump wants to have a delinquent manga for each generation due to their popularity i dunno.

And i hate to make comparisons but going from reading Kyou Kara Ore Wa to reading Beelzebub just feels like a giant dip in quality and humor. Where the former succeeds in showing you characters that will keep you consistently laughing, Beelzebub stays too reliant on cliches to get by and the humor is often hit-and-miss. Not to say that KKOW does not use shounen cliches but the sheer hilarity and absurdity in which it implements them instantly makes it better than Beelzebub.

And I'd just like to call out Kafriel on this, We were arguing about this a few months before and i'd just like to ask. Were the knights really the "box full of comedy" you expected? Were the new characters genuinely interesting and original? To me they just seem like the usual characters who will beg and plead to join up with Oga after he ends up kicking their sorry ass.

I'm truly sorry if i may sound like a condescending douche-bag and i have great respect for you as a poster.

To me it's kind of frustrating to see Beelzebub as popular as it is when it's not doing anything new or different. The humor is a hit and miss at most times and the few times it seems the manga is taking an interesting direction(Oga going into the demon world) it turns right back to the overused and overplayed.

Most people would tell me that i have a problem with the genre more than that of the series in question but i believe there is a lot of quality shounen out there which does not belong to the pile of cliches and mediocrity.

Here's hoping the manga will improve in the future before Jump gives it the axe pre-maturely like it has done so mercilessly to so many manga before. Until then hurray for thrice weekly releases of Kyou Kara Ore Wa!!
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Old 2010-04-17, 14:20   Link #885
HayashiTakara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poetic Justice View Post
I've said this before but this manga is just a whole lot of rehashing of established shounen plots. Maybe Jump wants to have a delinquent manga for each generation due to their popularity i dunno.

And i hate to make comparisons but going from reading Kyou Kara Ore Wa to reading Beelzebub just feels like a giant dip in quality and humor. Where the former succeeds in showing you characters that will keep you consistently laughing, Beelzebub stays too reliant on cliches to get by and the humor is often hit-and-miss. Not to say that KKOW does not use shounen cliches but the sheer hilarity and absurdity in which it implements them instantly makes it better than Beelzebub.

And I'd just like to call out Kafriel on this, We were arguing about this a few months before and i'd just like to ask. Were the knights really the "box full of comedy" you expected? Were the new characters genuinely interesting and original? To me they just seem like the usual characters who will beg and plead to join up with Oga after he ends up kicking their sorry ass.

I'm truly sorry if i may sound like a condescending douche-bag and i have great respect for you as a poster.

To me it's kind of frustrating to see Beelzebub as popular as it is when it's not doing anything new or different. The humor is a hit and miss at most times and the few times it seems the manga is taking an interesting direction(Oga going into the demon world) it turns right back to the overused and overplayed.

Most people would tell me that i have a problem with the genre more than that of the series in question but i believe there is a lot of quality shounen out there which does not belong to the pile of cliches and mediocrity.

Here's hoping the manga will improve in the future before Jump gives it the axe pre-maturely like it has done so mercilessly to so many manga before. Until then hurray for thrice weekly releases of Kyou Kara Ore Wa!!
They're different Genre's Kyou Kare is 100% comedy, there's no drama, no character development, no nothing but comedy, there's not even a central plot.
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Old 2010-04-17, 14:35   Link #886
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No character development or plot? I beg to differ. In fact right in the latest KKOW chapter there's a huge flag for character development.
Spoiler for KKOW CH 71:


Also there is drama, Its just not dragged to the surface like so many other manga's. And yes seriousness is most often instantaneously dropped in favor of hilarity but that just makes it so darn good.
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Old 2010-04-17, 14:53   Link #887
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As I haven't read KKOW, I can't comment on it. About the current arc of Beelzebub: you're right, it's been pretty stale and full of cliches (happy-go-lucky protege deliquent wannabe, tough justice guys VS pro deliquents), and it's already been 10 chapters into the Saint Ishiyama academy, so I was expecting this particular chapter to make the difference...Still, I will patiently wait for this arc to end before I label it a filler arc in terms of development, and enjoy it as much as I can (after all this is considered light reading).
Quote:
To me it's kind of frustrating to see Beelzebub as popular as it is when it's not doing anything new or different.
I thought its popularity was down the gutter, at least from the Medaka Box thread, stats show Beelzebub always being in the bottom 5...
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Old 2010-04-17, 15:07   Link #888
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Selling 100,000+ for a single volume seems pretty popular to me. Certainly not gintama level but still pretty popular.

Last edited by Poetic Justice; 2010-04-17 at 15:30.
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Old 2010-04-17, 16:30   Link #889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poetic Justice View Post
No character development or plot? I beg to differ. In fact right in the latest KKOW chapter there's a huge flag for character development.
Spoiler for KKOW CH 71:


Also there is drama, Its just not dragged to the surface like so many other manga's. And yes seriousness is most often instantaneously dropped in favor of hilarity but that just makes it so darn good.
you know as well as I do that nothing will come out of this chapter. It'll be back to square one once the fight is over. It's always been that way.

Well anyway, cliche's or not, I could give a rats ass about. 99% of the stuff I see in the last 5 to 10yrs has been cliche's. It's all about characters and plot execution.
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Old 2010-04-17, 17:14   Link #890
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
you know as well as I do that nothing will come out of this chapter. It'll be back to square one once the fight is over. It's always been that way.

Well anyway, cliche's or not, I could give a rats ass about. 99% of the stuff I see in the last 5 to 10yrs has been cliche's. It's all about characters and plot execution.
I think this may be about the most insightful i think I've ever heard you say Hayashi. I agree 100%; History's Strongest Kenchi is one of the simplest most clinche plots on the planet. "I'm a weak boy I want to get stronger" but because the Art is decent and the Characters are fun its a cool story. Some originality is desired but not even the most important thing any more for the simple fact that its just so hard to be original.
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Old 2010-04-17, 18:34   Link #891
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Beelzebub is enjoyable for a manga read BUT the story feels really predictable like the current arc....
  • Oga meets Kazu
  • Kazu acts like Miki from the past: Both wanted to become strong and especially under Oga's guidance.
  • Oga seems to despise this and yet cared for people like Miki which (probably) resulted in him removing Miki with force from his dangerous world which Kazu currently tries to enter.
  • We can conclude that history will probably repeat itself and during a event, Kazu will become Oga's other victim but this time Oga's actions will be explained.
  • All misunderstandings are cleared and the arc ends.

I'm really wondering if won't see this setting happen.
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Old 2010-04-17, 19:43   Link #892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
you know as well as I do that nothing will come out of this chapter. It'll be back to square one once the fight is over. It's always been that way.
Even if that may happen there's already been character development in the form of
Spoiler for KKOW:
You can't deny that as not being character development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Well anyway, cliche's or not, I could give a rats ass about. 99% of the stuff I see in the last 5 to 10yrs has been cliche's. It's all about characters and plot execution.
What? Are you really saying there has been no innovation in shounen manga over the last 10 years? That is incredibly short-sighted to say the least. What manga have you been reading? jeez
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Old 2010-04-18, 00:21   Link #893
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Originally Posted by Poetic Justice
What? Are you really saying there has been no innovation in shounen manga over the last 10 years? That is incredibly short-sighted to say the least. What manga have you been reading? jeez
Everything.

To say there is no whatsoever innovation at all is probably an exaggeration, but yes, there is hardly any innovation.

That's why I have to concur with most everyone here. Not just manga or anime; entertainment in general nowadays are cliche, it's all about how they are executed.

Quote:
You can't deny that as not being character development.
The point is how big that character development" of yours is. If you consider that character development, in 50 chapters of Beelzebub, we already have 50x times that development. And yes, by 50x times, I mean it.

You see the ultimate cliche of Bleach and its popularity and you wonder how Beelzebub gets popular.
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Old 2010-04-18, 02:25   Link #894
Poetic Justice
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Originally Posted by Cinocard View Post
Everything.

To say there is no whatsoever innovation at all is probably an exaggeration, but yes, there is hardly any innovation.

That's why I have to concur with most everyone here. Not just manga or anime; entertainment in general nowadays are cliche, it's all about how they are executed.
You guys need more diversification in your entertainment if you seriously believe that. Maybe try reading some "good" books.

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The point is how big that character development" of yours is. If you consider that character development, in 50 chapters of Beelzebub, we already have 50x times that development. And yes, by 50x times, I mean it.

You see the ultimate cliche of Bleach and its popularity and you wonder how Beelzebub gets popular.
So "I'm going to protect this baby no matter what" counts as 50 times more character development than accepting someone for who they are despite differences, Gotcha.
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Old 2010-04-18, 02:30   Link #895
zibi88
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but seriously I wouldnt be that supprised if after this fight Oga decides to go and train with Aoi's grandfather in some martial arts ^^

anyway its fun to see that Bel kinda agrees for Aoi to hold him ^^ and in not so many chapters oga asks her to hold him for 2nd time XD (I would what would hilda do about it ^^)
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Old 2010-04-18, 08:21   Link #896
Lummie
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Found some great Beelzebub fanart

Spoiler:
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Old 2010-04-18, 10:24   Link #897
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Beelzebub is popular because it's one of the better shounen mangas out there right now, which may not say much. But comparing it's popularity to KKOW is ridiculous because one came out in the 80s and has been done with for years.
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Old 2010-04-18, 11:02   Link #898
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Is it just me or does anyone feel extremely bored with the fights? Beelzebub was suppose to be comedy focused, but now that they're a battle manga, it doesn't bring anything new on the table and being quite bland as an artwork as well as low creativity that doesn't exceed nothing other than a delinquent fight. I'm disappointed on it's progress and hoping it'll bring out something fresh and amazing. Flinging punches at one another isn't impressing anyone since we've seen it done multiple times in other mangas at a very common standard.
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Old 2010-04-18, 12:54   Link #899
LeaD36
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Originally Posted by Poetic Justice View Post
I've said this before but this manga is just a whole lot of rehashing of established shounen plots. Maybe Jump wants to have a delinquent manga for each generation due to their popularity i dunno.

And i hate to make comparisons but going from reading Kyou Kara Ore Wa to reading Beelzebub just feels like a giant dip in quality and humor. Where the former succeeds in showing you characters that will keep you consistently laughing, Beelzebub stays too reliant on cliches to get by and the humor is often hit-and-miss. Not to say that KKOW does not use shounen cliches but the sheer hilarity and absurdity in which it implements them instantly makes it better than Beelzebub.

And I'd just like to call out Kafriel on this, We were arguing about this a few months before and i'd just like to ask. Were the knights really the "box full of comedy" you expected? Were the new characters genuinely interesting and original? To me they just seem like the usual characters who will beg and plead to join up with Oga after he ends up kicking their sorry ass.

I'm truly sorry if i may sound like a condescending douche-bag and i have great respect for you as a poster.

To me it's kind of frustrating to see Beelzebub as popular as it is when it's not doing anything new or different. The humor is a hit and miss at most times and the few times it seems the manga is taking an interesting direction(Oga going into the demon world) it turns right back to the overused and overplayed.

Most people would tell me that i have a problem with the genre more than that of the series in question but i believe there is a lot of quality shounen out there which does not belong to the pile of cliches and mediocrity.

Here's hoping the manga will improve in the future before Jump gives it the axe pre-maturely like it has done so mercilessly to so many manga before. Until then hurray for thrice weekly releases of Kyou Kara Ore Wa!!
You just hype KKOW too much. Was there ever any shonen lead as awesome as Oga "what can we do to apologize?" (Oga 13 y/o) "Bow to me"
and who cares if the plots are cliché? they way the author presents them are friggin hilarious, oh and the trip to the demon world? Where is that comparable to any mainstream shonen plot? that was just so messed up, esp giant Baby Beel vs that monster thingy xD

oh and a big con for KKoW - the art is incredibly bad. Angel Densetsu was way better imo, that even had a plot for some time.

And beelzebub likely has some of the most awesome characters out of the ongoing manga nowadays!

I mean : Oga?! AOI <3????? Hilda!!! Furuichi (nah, he´s just here for the lolz) etc. etc.

Last edited by LeaD36; 2010-04-18 at 14:20.
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Old 2010-04-18, 12:58   Link #900
Wargumm1i
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I mean : Oga?! AOI <3????? Hilda!!! Furuichi (nah, he´s just here for the lolz) etc. etc.
Lol so true about Furuichi.
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