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Old 2010-04-07, 14:25   Link #1841
Yot-chan
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Originally Posted by fish eric View Post
I thought that the Eva series was suppose to be alot of different possibilities or that time keeps repeating itself. Isn't that why when you speak of canon you really need to say which iteration you are talking about?
Yeah, that's a possibility that's been floated around. No idea if there's any merit to it yet, though.
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Old 2010-04-17, 23:49   Link #1842
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Just gave good old evangelion, including EoE, a rewatch today. It is still by ffar the best anime ever for me.

The anticipation of the DVD release of Evangelion 2.0 is killing me. I just simply can't get enough of this series it seems, no matter how many times I rewatch it.

EDIT:

I have a big question for those who have seen Evangelion 2.0, and the original EVA series. Is this movie consistent with the original TV series in terms of character relationships, and how they interact? Meaning, for example, does Shinji still act in the same manner?

Perhaps the best way I can phrase this question, are the elements of psychological/emotional trauma still present in the main cast of characters?

Last edited by Reckoner; 2010-04-18 at 00:18.
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Old 2010-04-18, 23:51   Link #1843
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^ Well, not to spoil anything, but: no. At least, not in the same way as in the series.
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Old 2010-04-19, 03:11   Link #1844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I have a big question for those who have seen Evangelion 2.0, and the original EVA series. Is this movie consistent with the original TV series in terms of character relationships, and how they interact? Meaning, for example, does Shinji still act in the same manner?

Perhaps the best way I can phrase this question, are the elements of psychological/emotional trauma still present in the main cast of characters?
No. Almost all characters have been changed somewhat, but Asuka has been changed the most from all characters. They even changed her surname.
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Old 2010-04-20, 02:16   Link #1845
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
No. Almost all characters have been changed somewhat, but Asuka has been changed the most from all characters. They even changed her surname.
That is very disappointing. That's what makes Eva.... well Eva.

Sigh. It seems all these movies will be good for in the end is eye candy. I hear they make Shinji to be some sort of Shinji lagann type pilot.
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Old 2010-04-20, 02:43   Link #1846
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I don't see why you can't just give the films a chance to shine without what's missing from the tv series.
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Old 2010-04-20, 07:28   Link #1847
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I don't see why you can't just give the films a chance to shine without what's missing from the tv series.
Because so far, the movies capitalise heavily on the viewers supposed pre-existing knowledge of and interest towards the original series.

Playing for nostalgia is not a bad thing, but it comes at the price of the audience having certain expectations. IMHO, the argument that, if Anno and team wanted to do another Super Robot series, then they should have created a completely new franchise instead of an Eva-spinoff, has some validity.

On the other hand, one can argue that if they kept the characters and the storyline completely intact, the movies would be pointless. And Rebuild was pitched as a reimagining from the beginning, not a remake.

Oh well, I'll wait for the final movies to see if they can truly blow me away.
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Old 2010-04-20, 12:49   Link #1848
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I don't really mind if they changed the storyline. That's what I came to expect as these movies are being released (Though originally I thought it was going to be like the last third or quarter of the series only, but whatever). In fact, I was excited for a bit of reimagining of the storyline, but NOT the characters.

Changing the characters... Then they might as well of created an entirely new universe. Though of course the wonderful setting that Anno created helped to turn Evangelion into legend, it was the characters themselves that made the story so compelling for many viewers.

But hey, I have not even seen the second installment yet. I forgave the first movie for cutting out all the in between material because of course they had to condense it... But I do expect better of the next movies for sure. I hope the second movie isn't as bad as I have been reading from other Evangelion fans, in terms of character destruction.
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Old 2010-04-20, 17:52   Link #1849
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If the thought of an Asuka who says "Thank you" makes you punch a hole in the wall, don't see the second movie.

But then, I'm a HUGE Asuka fan, and I loved 2.0. Part of that, of course, is that I got to see it on a massive screen with great sound in Sunshine Cinemas in Ikebukuro last year. But also, I just tought it was a good movie. It doesn't replace the series, but it's not meant to. It's enjoyable on its own, and as an alternate version of the story.

But if you got upset at the cuts made from the show for the first movie, the second movie will have you reeling, since it covers A LOT more ground, and tons of material gets cut out.

But you've seen the show, so you can mentally fill that in...so why should it matter?

I guarantee the movie will surprise you, though. But whether your reaction is "HEY! This isn't like the show!" or "Wow...this isn't like the show...", that's up to you.
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Old 2010-04-20, 19:25   Link #1850
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The cuts are forgivable as long as what they keep is better than what was cut out.

On the whole Asuka line, that would surely make me punch a wall . No, I'm kidding. But if I suddenly see a happy Asuka when Shinji is the one who keeps saving the day instead of her, and an Asuka that is super friendly with Misato after the stuff that happens with Kaji, then there is a problem.

I just don't want the mental anguish in the characters to change. Shinji and the hedgehog's dilemma, not running away and such. That needs to be kept in there. Evangelion was a series where the weakness of the characters didn't just go away, it stayed there. I don't want the typical hero overcomes his problems type of story because that is not what Evangelion is about. But hey, I am going to watch these movies whether I like it overall or not, even if it is just for the sake of eye candy.

I'm quite skeptical about the newly introduced pilot, but I guess we'll see what happens.
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Old 2010-04-20, 21:35   Link #1851
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I don't really mind if they changed the storyline. That's what I came to expect as these movies are being released (Though originally I thought it was going to be like the last third or quarter of the series only, but whatever). In fact, I was excited for a bit of reimagining of the storyline, but NOT the characters.
Pretty sure the characters are who they are because of the environment. You can't change the storyline without changing the characters and vice versa.

If so so so didn't happen then so and so character wouldn't have developed that way.

It's like the butterfly effect, you change one minor thing and it throws out new possibilities.

For example.

Spoiler:


Quote:
I guarantee the movie will surprise you, though. But whether your reaction is "HEY! This isn't like the show!" or "Wow...this isn't like the show...", that's up to you.
Well it's like Star Trek.

The director literally and I do mean literally re-wrote the entire Star Trek universe and changed everything.

The fans were pissed because they wanted William Shatner back...literally they just wanted a re-copy of everything which wasn't the point of the director.

Heck, why do you think movies like Dark Knight and Iron Man were so successful? It's because they wrote it for today's audience and not just re-copy everything from the original source.
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Old 2010-04-20, 22:01   Link #1852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Pretty sure the characters are who they are because of the environment. You can't change the storyline without changing the characters and vice versa.

If so so so didn't happen then so and so character wouldn't have developed that way.

It's like the butterfly effect, you change one minor thing and it throws out new possibilities.
I guess it depends. Of course, different events means they will develop differently, BUT if they go too far out of character then you might as well have not called it Evangelion to begin with. In other words, there better be a good reason for any personality change, barring insignificant details.


Quote:
Well it's like Star Trek.

The director literally and I do mean literally re-wrote the entire Star Trek universe and changed everything.

The fans were pissed because they wanted William Shatner back...literally they just wanted a re-copy of everything which wasn't the point of the director.

Heck, why do you think movies like Dark Knight and Iron Man were so successful? It's because they wrote it for today's audience and not just re-copy everything from the original source.
Can't speak for the others, but the Dark Knight still had the feel of Batman despite whatever liberties they took with it which is also why it did well.

It's as if someone were to describe Batman in 2-3 sentences; the movie would most likely fit those sentences.

For Star Trek, I'm guessing the more loyal fans were probably missing the feel of the humanistic philosophy of Trek; trek was never really about the cool fighting and stuff. Haven't seen the movie itself.

Now, I haven't seen anything past 1.0, but Evangelion without the psychological aspects and introspection would just feel very wrong.
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Old 2010-04-20, 22:12   Link #1853
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Pretty sure the characters are who they are because of the environment. You can't change the storyline without changing the characters and vice versa.

If so so so didn't happen then so and so character wouldn't have developed that way.

It's like the butterfly effect, you change one minor thing and it throws out new possibilities.

For example.

Spoiler:


Well it's like Star Trek.

The director literally and I do mean literally re-wrote the entire Star Trek universe and changed everything.

The fans were pissed because they wanted William Shatner back...literally they just wanted a re-copy of everything which wasn't the point of the director.

Heck, why do you think movies like Dark Knight and Iron Man were so successful? It's because they wrote it for today's audience and not just re-copy everything from the original source.
Many of the psychological aspects can be shifted into a new plot. If that's what makes Evangelion what it is, why would you change it? Like Archon_Wing said, if you go too far out of character, why even call it Evangelion anymore?

As for the comparisons you made. Sometimes the changes can be good, and sometimes they can be bad. In for example, the Dark Knight, I felt they finally captured the essence of what the comics were, instead of what the previous predecessors tried (It was just bad).

As for Star Trek, I can't comment too much since I didn't see too much.

But in the end, it's the old "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" scenario. I don't see a reason to change how the characters act that much if the characters were good in the eyes of most fans in the first place.
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Old 2010-04-20, 23:00   Link #1854
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Can't speak for the others, but the Dark Knight still had the feel of Batman despite whatever liberties they took with it which is also why it did well.
The Dark Knight series is "Christopher Nolans" take on Batman and is quite different from say Tim Burton's batman.

Example. Nolan's batman has a no-kill policy despite its brutality. Burton's doesn't and that makes a difference in character and attitude. Then you take their Jokers. There's an even huge difference between their jokers.

Every director takes something and re-makes it into their own image. Evangelion's no different.

Quote:
For Star Trek, I'm guessing the more loyal fans were probably missing the feel of the humanistic philosophy of Trek; trek was never really about the cool fighting and stuff. Haven't seen the movie itself.
The thing you guys need to understand when it comes to stuff like this is that they are made in different time periods. The "loyal" fans go way back while this new Star Trek targets a 2009 audience with a different mentality. Just like this Evangelion series. BTW I'm not saying 2009 people are dumber or smarter, it's just different.

Quote:
But in the end, it's the old "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" scenario. I don't see a reason to change how the characters act that much if the characters were good in the eyes of most fans in the first place.
First off you need to prove that Anno said the Evangelion series was broken and that this movie series is an attempt to fix it which it obviously isn't and I don't think anyone here said that.

Second, the movie's doing good and is very successful so you can't say they are going in the wrong direction, especially when the guy who made it in the first place is running this project.

Third, the Evangelion series ended in 1997ish which was almost 13 years ago. He's not making it just for the loyal fans who may have stuck for a decade, he's making it for a 2010 audience and wants to do an alternate re-telling which seems to be the rage these days.

Fourth, some of us suspect that this similar to Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland,

Spoiler:


I'd say keep an open mind. My friend is adamant on not watching it because he says it ruins Evangelion but whatever.

These new movies are for casual and general audiences, not just aimed for loyal fans.
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Old 2010-04-20, 23:51   Link #1855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
The Dark Knight series is "Christopher Nolans" take on Batman and is quite different from say Tim Burton's batman.

Example. Nolan's batman has a no-kill policy despite its brutality. Burton's doesn't and that makes a difference in character and attitude. Then you take their Jokers. There's an even huge difference between their jokers.

Every director takes something and re-makes it into their own image. Evangelion's no different.
Well, I suppose that is a pretty big detail for Batman, but hardly a deal breaker. The differences in character is related to the overall mood and style of the different directors. But it's still Batman! As I've said before if one can describe the concept of the whole the story in a few sentences and the movie captures it, it'll work fine. I'm not a huge stickler for details and canon and whatever, but I do have certain expectations. I don't want things changed for the sake of change. I do want changes that can cause the characters to react differently, or make a certain point less obtuse.

For example, 1.0 throws in Kaworu much earlier than he'd normally appear. This could help enhance the narrative, because for someone so critical to the last part of Evangelion's story, he seemed fairly rushed in. We could learn more about him. Or perhaps have him meet up with Shinji earlier so if he has to kick the bucket again, it'd cause the audience to emphasize with the impact it has on Shinji to a greater extent.

Or he could just be thrown in for fan service. I surely hope it's the former.

Quote:
The thing you guys need to understand when it comes to stuff like this is that they are made in different time periods. The "loyal" fans go way back while this new Star Trek targets a 2009 audience with a different mentality. Just like this Evangelion series. BTW I'm not saying 2009 people are dumber or smarter, it's just different.
I think we do understand. Liking it is another issue. (And yes, I do realize that I am not in the target audience when it comes to anime) It could resemble a completely different story and it could still be a good movie-- but why bother giving it the same name? It just seems like a waste to not make use of the world and characters you already have.

Quote:
Second, the movie's doing good and is very successful so you can't say they are going in the wrong direction, especially when the guy who made it in the first place is running this project.
True, though I might argue it'd just do solely on name alone. But that's great and all.


Quote:
I'd say keep an open mind. My friend is adamant on not watching it because he says it ruins Evangelion but whatever.

These new movies are for casual and general audiences, not just aimed for loyal fans.
Oh don't worry; it'd be silly to condemn a movie before watching it. I'm sure it'll be a good watch, but I want to see something with the same impact the original series had-- Something fresh, something daring. Is it unreasonable? Possibly, but I can adjust my reaction when reality hits anyways.

A part of me will probably say, "hey, since the original eva was a deconstruction of many of the series that came before it, Rebuild will probably play around with itself [the original story]"

TL;DR: I want the movie to surprise me. I want it to be more than just a movie.
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Old 2010-04-21, 00:48   Link #1856
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TL;DR: I want the movie to surprise me. I want it to be more than just a movie.
Your whole post echoes my sentiments perfectly, but especially this line.

Evangelion for me is my FAVORITE anime of all time. So it is pretty much impossible for me to play down my expectations of these movies. I expect greatness, because the original was so great.
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Old 2010-04-21, 05:06   Link #1857
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Okay...I'll lay most of it out on the table...

Yes, changes are made. Yes, a lot of the middle of the series is cut out. But it basically follows the overall plot of the TV series...if you read the Evangelion manga, vols. 4~7 will give you SOMETHING of an idea of how they did it.

And (so far, at least) no one is as tortured in the movie as they were in the show...but the psychological torment of the characters didn't really start until the second half of the series, anyway. They start to put the thumbscrews on Shinji towards the end of the movie, and I don't think they'll be letting him off easy in the next one...
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Old 2010-04-21, 15:15   Link #1858
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Well Ive seen Evangelion Rebuild 1.0 and waiting for some good quality versaions of 2.0 before I see it.

I for one welcome the changes that they would do and see how they can take Evangelion down a different route. I like the original series...great potential, but hardly anywhere near perfection.

The ner graphics are awesome but what Im interested in is not so much what they leave in or cut out from the original...but what they add in that was MISSING in the ORIGINAL series...

For example one of the most sweetest moments in 1.0 was when Misato held onto Shinji's hand and then he grasped firmly around it...absolutely beautiful! In 26 eps + 2 movies...the main characters of the series couldnt even show THAT level of intimacy when trying to comfort or support each other...

Once again, beautiful moment. ONLY made possible by the remake...
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Old 2010-04-22, 08:55   Link #1859
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True, though I might argue it'd just do solely on name alone. But that's great and all.
The general opinion that watched the movie objectively verily enjoyed 2.0.

Not to generalize, but most ones I've seen that "condemn the ruin of Evangelion" on the Rebuild were expecting a pure shiny-recut of the series and cannot budge the fact it's an Elseworld version in comic book terms, except not as retarded.
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Old 2010-04-22, 09:42   Link #1860
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How are the english subtitles and the english dub of the first film? I'm wondering if I should get the german bluray or go for the UK one instead. Oh and should I just wait for the 1.11 version?

Also: Are there any definite release dates for all of the films by now?

I like that they don't follow the same route as before.
Loved the anime series, even so I saw it pretty late.. only three years ago. So I'm very happy about 'Rebuild'. A less expressionistic ending would be appreciated, too XD
Since I'm so hyped about it, I just hope the films will meet my rather high expectations.
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