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Old 2010-04-23, 16:00   Link #8821
LyricalAura
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Beatrice is a troll that likes to make Battler stop thinking.
Also this. It would be a beautiful misdirection.
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Old 2010-04-23, 16:03   Link #8822
Judoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeagullCrazy View Post
If Genji = Ronove and Nanjo = Gaap, then you can see some action being taken.
Otherwise they do absolutely nothing, which would be really hard for them to do considering how suspicious they are.
Genji being Ronove has always been weird for me since Ronove kills Genji and Genji can't kill himself in that episode due to the red truth.

Also Genji is supposedly a first twilight victim in episode 4. If he actually represents Genji it's really weird.
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Old 2010-04-23, 16:07   Link #8823
Oliver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeagullCrazy View Post
If Genji = Ronove and Nanjo = Gaap, then you can see some action being taken.
Otherwise they do absolutely nothing, which would be really hard for them to do considering how suspicious they are.
I'm find the association between Nanjo and Gaap highly dubious - not even because Gaap is so obviously shown as female, but because she talks to Beatrice about dresses and is so highly impressed with George to the point of thinly covered desire. And emotional sentiments in magic scenes do seem to be the one properly true things in them.

Can you imagine Nanjo doing that? I can, but it looks so out of tune with everything that I have to reject it.
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Old 2010-04-23, 16:07   Link #8824
SeagullCrazy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Genji being Ronove has always been weird for me since Ronove kills Genji and Genji can't kill himself in that episode due to the red truth.
There are actually a few ways to interpret that.

Like, what if the phrase "Ronove killed Genji" was taken more seriously?
Ronove = Beatrice's head furniture
So Genji's duty as Beatrice's (Shannon's?) head servant caused him to die.

Which is one reason why I think the adults killed the EP3 first twilight.
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Old 2010-04-23, 16:08   Link #8825
TkMacintosh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
  • Rudolf is almost always out of the game as early as possible.
I remember Ssol's Asumu theory in which Asumu was almost killed by Shannon but somehow survived. It made Rudolf think she was actually dead.

That theory along with that line makes me think Asumu being the true murder is the reason why Rudolf is always taken out so quickly....ANGRY EX-WIFE IS ANGRY!!!

....Yeah...I think...I'll just go back to watching >.>

P.S.
Asumu Theory by Ssol
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Old 2010-04-23, 16:08   Link #8826
Oliver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Genji being Ronove has always been weird for me since Ronove kills Genji and Genji can't kill himself in that episode due to the red truth.
Ronove actually puts Genji to sleep. That Genji doesn't wake up from this one is not necessarily Ronove's doing.
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Old 2010-04-23, 16:12   Link #8827
Judoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
Ronove actually puts Genji to sleep. That Genji doesn't wake up from this one is not necessarily Ronove's doing.
It looked like he died to me. I don't think he was drugged so did Ronove use some sort of "martial arts spy move" where he squeezes your neck and you fall unconscious?

EDIT: Actually Eva mentions a martial arts move where she can kick you in the head in the right way and knock you out. (I think she said this to Rudolf) This is before she got off the boat. Moving on...
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Old 2010-04-23, 16:15   Link #8828
LyricalAura
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Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
no motive has ever been established for burning the older Kinzo's corpse in that episode.
Ah, I should probably elaborate on this. Supposing the body belongs to Kinzo, then you can enumerate all of the motives we have available and determine that they don't actually make sense given the situation. On the other hand, if the body belongs to Kanon, you can make the theory that it was burned to deliberately give the impression that his corpse was missing, thereby making him a prime suspect for the murders. Something like this has already happened before in EP2.
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Old 2010-04-23, 16:22   Link #8829
Jan-Poo
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Because it explains why Kanon disappeared in that episode and also demonstrates that he has polydactyly, which gives Kinzo a reason to specifically adopt him and possibly choose him as an heir. Furthermore, it evades the problem that no motive has ever been established for burning the older Kinzo's corpse in that episode.
Kanon disappears in various episodes so you really don't solve the issue by explaining it in a single one. And what's so strange about Kanon disappearing? The island is huge, Battler can't possibly search every corner. Plus considering you accept the fact that Kinzo's corpse is found at least in Ep1, you'd still have a missing body in EP4, because Kinzo's body must be there somewhere.

then using the word "demonstrate" was really out of place.

lastly, the reason why Kinzo's corpse has always been found burnt should be extremely obvious right now. and you don't actually "need" another explanation.
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Old 2010-04-23, 16:25   Link #8830
Oliver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
It looked like he died to me. I don't think he was drugged so did Ronove use some sort of "martial arts spy move" where he squeezes your neck and you fall unconscious?
If Ronove is Genji, and 'snaps his fingers' so 'Genji falls and is dead as if asleep', it can only mean that Genji decided to go asleep himself, but does not necessitate Genji to kill himself or that Genji actually be asleep in the study - the magic scene has to match how it looked in the end but can float around the bush as much as needed to fulfill other purposes of the narrative.

You won't argue that the subsequent scene with murdering Rosa actually did involve her dying over and over and over by increasingly bizarre and childish means?
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Old 2010-04-23, 16:25   Link #8831
Judoh
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
then using the word "demonstrate" was really out of place.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=2670
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=2679

I posted some things about that. I didn't like the idea of the gold being a lie so I found a way to guarantee a corpse with Kinzo's identity exists without actually presenting the corpse.
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Old 2010-04-23, 16:25   Link #8832
SeagullCrazy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
Ah, I should probably elaborate on this. Supposing the body belongs to Kinzo, then you can enumerate all of the motives we have available and determine that they don't actually make sense given the situation. On the other hand, if the body belongs to Kanon, you can make the theory that it was burned to deliberately give the impression that his corpse was missing, thereby making him a prime suspect for the murders. Something like this has already happened before in EP2.
Sorry, but I was looking at the red text.

They definitely would not mistake any different person for Kanon!
* (This is referring to Kanon's appearance in Episode 2.)

I'm pretty sure that proves it wrong. And doesn't this prove Shkanon wrong, too? They can't mistake Shannon for Kanon, after all!
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Old 2010-04-23, 16:29   Link #8833
ameskitty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
If these two aren't important in some way after all that buildup, and Ep7 is just Shkanon love-love time again, I'm going to fly over to Japan and smack Ryukishi one.
Oh, heck, yes. Especially with George. To me that whole conversation between Shannon and George in EP6 was a bit too dark to not indicate that something might be "off" with him. And if Shkanon wasn't the "big obvious hint" in EP6, it was definitely at least Shannontrice (Oh look! I'm having a conversation with Battler about the type of girl he likes, and I'm pretty clearly not Jessica!). That has a lot of potential to implicate George as some sort of culprit or accomplice. (I agree about Rudolf, too, but I'm trying to pull things more out of EP6 right now for obvious reasons .)

I have to admit, though, my optimism that the ending's going to be anything other than Shkanon is kind of draining down the sink right now . Shkanon fits a lot of things pretty well, and I'm not going to be silly about it.
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Old 2010-04-23, 16:29   Link #8834
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=2670
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=2679

I posted some things about that. I didn't like the idea of the gold being a lie so I found a way to guarantee a corpse with Kinzo's identity exists without actually presenting the corpse.
non pertinent. Lyricalaura basically claimed that a theory demonstrates that Kanon has plydactility.

A theory doesn't demonstrate anything.
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Old 2010-04-23, 16:29   Link #8835
Judoh
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Originally Posted by SeagullCrazy View Post
Sorry, but I was looking at the red text.

They definitely would not mistake any different person for Kanon!
* (This is referring to Kanon's appearance in Episode 2.)

I'm pretty sure that proves it wrong. And doesn't this prove Shkanon wrong, too? They can't mistake Shannon for Kanon, after all!
So...written differently Servant Kanon can't be mistaken by sight? Doesn't that actually SUPPORT him being Kinzo?
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Old 2010-04-23, 16:32   Link #8836
Jan-Poo
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Because "Kinzo" has the exclusive?
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Old 2010-04-23, 16:32   Link #8837
Judoh
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
A theory doesn't demonstrate anything.
I'm not claiming that what I linked supports lyrical's theory. I thought you were referring to Battler's red in episode 5.
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Old 2010-04-23, 16:34   Link #8838
SeagullCrazy
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
So...written differently Servant Kanon can't be mistaken by sight? Doesn't that actually SUPPORT him being Kinzo?
I meant his corpse. Everyone would have mistaken the corpse for Kinzo (and I mean the old man, not inherited name), not Kanon.
But you can't mistake Kanon for a different person, right?
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Old 2010-04-23, 16:36   Link #8839
Judoh
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Originally Posted by SeagullCrazy View Post
I meant his corpse. Everyone would have mistaken the corpse for Kinzo (and I mean the old man, not inherited name), not Kanon.
But you can't mistake Kanon for a different person, right?
People will get around that by claiming you can mistake Shannon for Kanon though. It's very one sided.

I don't see why you would mistake one over the other though.
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Old 2010-04-23, 16:38   Link #8840
Jan-Poo
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actually that red can be bypassed simply pointing how that the very premise of the shkanon theory is that Shannon is not a "different person" in relation to Kanon.
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