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Old 2010-04-24, 17:55   Link #1
alamarco
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Translations: Anime vs Manga

Just starting thinking about this and hoping to get some opinions. From my understanding, the following is how things work (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Anime: Each group has their own translators. So all other work, such as timing, depends on their own translators.

Manga: Translations are done by a few people who post them up at sites like MangaHelpers. Some groups may use their own translations, but at times you'll see "translations by CNET". So the manga groups work on cleaning and use translations posted by others.

Why the difference between how anime and manga are done? Obviously they are different mediums, but I'm interested in why one seems community friendly, and the other seems group focused.
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Old 2010-04-24, 18:05   Link #2
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01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2010-04-24, 19:32   Link #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alamarco View Post
Why the difference between how anime and manga are done? Obviously they are different mediums, but I'm interested in why one seems community friendly, and the other seems group focused.
Because of the difficulty/needed step of what comes after translation.

Reading off a script while watching anime is hard.
Reading off a script while looking at manga is easy.

Typesetting and timing a script to anime isn't very time consuming.
Typesetting a script to manga is very time consuming.
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Old 2010-04-24, 21:34   Link #4
alamarco
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Originally Posted by bayoab View Post
Because of the difficulty/needed step of what comes after translation.
By that, do you mean that anime groups can't afford to wait for a public translation? They need the translation ASAP so they can get to work on the other aspects of putting out a release?
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Old 2010-04-24, 22:29   Link #5
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Originally Posted by alamarco View Post
By that, do you mean that anime groups can't afford to wait for a public translation? They need the translation ASAP so they can get to work on the other aspects of putting out a release?
No, you have it backwards. Once you have the translation of an episode of anime you might as well do the rest since it (usually) isn't much work and the translation is basically worthless for anyone but other fansubbers, as watching an episode and looking at a script doesn't really work.

On the other hand, turning a translated manga script into a scanlation is a lot of tedious work, but an untypeset translation is enough for the more hardcore fans.
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Old 2010-04-24, 23:28   Link #6
alamarco
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I think we may be on different paths. I'm referring to other fansub groups using public translations to do their work. Is that what you're saying or are you saying about people watching anime using scripts? I don't think anyone could watch an episode by reading a translation script.

It seems the key here is what comes after the translation. Any insight on that?

What else goes on in a manga release? From my understanding a manga gets cleaned, and then the translation is used to typeset the manga. So while waiting for a translation a group would use that time to clean the pages.

What else goes on in an anime release? From my understanding once a translation is complete it's then placed at the proper timings.This seems relatively easier than typesetting a manga. Is that the key difference? Groups would feel to similar if they used the same translations since there is no cleaning involved, etc?

Sorry if these seem like dumb questions. I'm trying to understand the process a bit. Mostly out of personal curiosity, but also a way to better appreciate the jobs done.
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Old 2010-04-24, 23:35   Link #7
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I think he's just trying to say that while you can easily read through a chapter of some random manga with just a text translation "in hand", the same won't work for anime at all. The main reason public text translations show up for manga is because <everything else> is quite time consuming and requires quite a bit of work, while, for anime, this isn't the case.

Correct me if I'm wrong, since, honestly, I don't quite read scanlations, but doesn't those groups all have their own translator who TLs every chapter for them? Even though a text translation might already be avaible before, don't groups like <guys who release Naruto each week> have a trustworthy translator who does most chapters? If that's the case, then, well, anime is pretty much the same, except since text translations are useless for the random fan, they just don't get released before the actual "group releases".

Herp derp, hope I'm making sense here.
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Old 2010-04-24, 23:41   Link #8
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Originally Posted by alamarco View Post
I think we may be on different paths. I'm referring to other fansub groups using public translations to do their work.
There are no anime fansub groups that use public translations, because there are (almost) no public translations. There are no public translations because there is no point in releasing just the translation.
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Old 2010-04-25, 06:00   Link #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alamarco View Post
What else goes on in a manga release? From my understanding a manga gets cleaned, and then the translation is used to typeset the manga. So while waiting for a translation a group would use that time to clean the pages.
Depending on the complexity of the manga, in the time taken to clean and typeset maybe two pages, an experienced fansubber could time, style and mux an entire episode of anime.

Or prove me wrong, clean and typeset a chapter of manga (is that some 20 pages on average?) in less than an hour.
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Old 2010-04-25, 13:35   Link #10
alamarco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue-kun View Post
I think he's just trying to say that while you can easily read through a chapter of some random manga with just a text translation "in hand", the same won't work for anime at all. The main reason public text translations show up for manga is because <everything else> is quite time consuming and requires quite a bit of work, while, for anime, this isn't the case.
That would make sense. So fans who don't want to wait the time required for a scan release, can use the translation instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue-kun View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, since, honestly, I don't quite read scanlations, but doesn't those groups all have their own translator who TLs every chapter for them? Even though a text translation might already be avaible before, don't groups like <guys who release Naruto each week> have a trustworthy translator who does most chapters? If that's the case, then, well, anime is pretty much the same, except since text translations are useless for the random fan, they just don't get released before the actual "group releases".
It would seem that every group is different. If I look at NarutoSoul, Hueco Mundo and MangaStream they both use hisshouburaiken's translation for Naruto while SleepyFans uses Sakura's translation. So each group may be different, but there are a few who use the same translation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plorkyeran View Post
There are no anime fansub groups that use public translations, because there are (almost) no public translations. There are no public translations because there is no point in releasing just the translation.
That goes back to my original question. Why is there no point in releasing just the translation? Does it go back to Blue-kun in that the main reason for a manga translations public release is for fans and not for other groups?

Although users may not be able to use the translations, couldn't other fansub groups use the translation? This could also help improve the quality as instead of each doing their own translation, they could help each other by going over the translation and fixing any mistakes.

Am I looking at this the wrong way? Would the anime community not want to work together like they do with the manga community?
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Old 2010-04-25, 13:40   Link #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfs View Post
Depending on the complexity of the manga, in the time taken to clean and typeset maybe two pages, an experienced fansubber could time, style and mux an entire episode of anime.

Or prove me wrong, clean and typeset a chapter of manga (is that some 20 pages on average?) in less than an hour.
The easiest way is just to print out the pages and use good old fashioned white-out, then scan them in again.
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Old 2010-04-25, 22:31   Link #12
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what is this.

The answer is actually really simple: (some/most of) anime fansubbers are a bunch of elitist fags (except for distribution - in term of distribution, scanlators are the worst I've ever seen).

I remember in dorama scene, someone posts timing of an episode and then someone else translates them

@jfs: I did typeset and clean a chapter of saki in 40 mins.

@plorkyeran: cr rips? :P
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Old 2010-04-25, 22:55   Link #13
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Originally Posted by Plorkyeran View Post
No, you have it backwards. Once you have the translation of an episode of anime you might as well do the rest since it (usually) isn't much work and the translation is basically worthless for anyone but other fansubbers, as watching an episode and looking at a script doesn't really work.

On the other hand, turning a translated manga script into a scanlation is a lot of tedious work, but an untypeset translation is enough for the more hardcore fans.
Does this explain why some subbers will use the translations of another group?
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Old 2010-04-25, 23:32   Link #14
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Because if you give 3 fansubbers a good translation of an ep, you'll probably get 3 releases of fairly similar quality.
But if you give 3 scanlators a good translation of a chapter, chances are that you'll get 3 releases with quite a difference in quality.
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Old 2010-04-25, 23:53   Link #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamikazenor View Post
Because if you give 3 fansubbers a good translation of an ep, you'll probably get 3 releases of fairly similar quality.
But if you give 3 scanlators a good translation of a chapter, chances are that you'll get 3 releases with quite a difference in quality.
No. There still will be quite a difference in either cases
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Old 2010-04-26, 00:18   Link #16
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No. There still will be quite a difference in either cases
The difference of quality will be muuuuuuuch clearer in the manga.
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Old 2010-04-26, 01:30   Link #17
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The difference of quality will be muuuuuuuch clearer in the manga.
Not really.
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Old 2010-04-26, 05:14   Link #18
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I think the answer is actually simpler than that: fansubbing is more organised than scanlating. There are by far and away more fansubbing groups than scanlation groups, which means there's no necessity for the pooling of resources. If scanlation was as well-manned as fansubbing, you'd see much less pooling, I'd wager.
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Old 2010-04-26, 07:48   Link #19
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Originally Posted by False Dawn View Post
I think the answer is actually simpler than that: fansubbing is more organised than scanlating. There are by far and away more fansubbing groups than scanlation groups, which means there's no necessity for the pooling of resources. If scanlation was as well-manned as fansubbing, you'd see much less pooling, I'd wager.
Not to mention the raw video source seems to be more readily available than the manga source.
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Old 2010-04-27, 17:39   Link #20
alamarco
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Originally Posted by False Dawn View Post
I think the answer is actually simpler than that: fansubbing is more organised than scanlating. There are by far and away more fansubbing groups than scanlation groups, which means there's no necessity for the pooling of resources. If scanlation was as well-manned as fansubbing, you'd see much less pooling, I'd wager.
Good point. I'm not savvy with regards to how they both work, but from the outside they do seem more organized. If I think about it, I see way more recruitment posts for manga groups than I do anime groups. I tend to subscribe to both anime and manga RSS feeds for groups I watch or read, so I occasionally see posts.

Although that could be bi-product of manga being on paper (so to speak). A lot of times you'll see recruitment pages in their releases. With anime, you don't really have that luxury of simply adding a page. Of course you can edit the video to include an ad at the beginning or end, though I'm not sure how much fans would enjoy that.
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