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View Poll Results: Who’s Under the Mask?
Madara 104 32.91%
Madara’s Son 14 4.43%
Madara’s Clone 30 9.49%
Madara’s Ghost/Soul/Poltergeist given shape... 33 10.44%
Obito 59 18.67%
Obito’s Body, but not really Obito... 55 17.41%
Someone else’s body (not Obito’s)... 21 6.65%
Zetsu’s Love Child... 23 7.28%
Tobirama/Sarutobi/or anyone with a 'tobi' in their name... 16 5.06%
Bruce Wayne or other… 69 21.84%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 316. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-04-23, 12:19   Link #101
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
You're right to say there's a reason Kishi is hiding Tobi's face. However, if Tobi really is Madara, what's the point of hiding his MS? We already know he has it, so why hide the fact? To imply he'd be a lot more powerful when using it? That would be a bit obvious. Then again, Kishi seems to be the Master of the Obvious these days
What's the point of hiding Madara's face? Maybe, it is simply to keep the readers guessing or keep the suspense and tension high. For example, everyone knew that Racer X was Speed's older brother (X would even mention it in several episodes), but it took the entire series before he would take off the mask and actually admit (to Speed) that he was Rex Racer (this was a form of dramatic tension by the creators to keep the audience in suspense for when the reveal was finally shown). Madara hiding his face could simply be a plot device, a red herring, to keep the reader's off balance and always questioning Tobi's motives (because, without the mask or the "mystery", Madara is actually a somewhat straightforward villain, not as much as Kisame or Hidan (who are extreme examples of simplicity in action), but I also do not really think Madara has shown his story to be as "deep" as Nagato's or potentially even Itachi's).

In the end, Madara's disguise is only as deep or meaningful as you wish it to be...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
I never said he was afraid. All I'm trying to say is that Tobi is hiding something from the others, and he was distressed (not afraid) that there is someone who knows his secret, which is whatever's inside that extra grave of his. I doubt he would be afraid of Kabuto.
Actually, you have. "For someone like Madara...you'd expect him to be unafraid of anything." But that is only partially my point...

I, actually, was using your post as a springboard for an overall statement (not specifically directed at you). That is why I mentioned "fear", a word others have used to describe Madara's potential mental and emotional state at the time.

But, you are correct, I did not adequately describe my point. I meant to imply, by using the words "startled" and "disturbed", that "distressed" is a correct interpretation. But, this implication obviously failed .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
Idk how that proves it is unknown that Madara has the EMS
That wasn't my point. Much the same as we cannot say with full certainty that Madara/Tobi posses a MS, we definitely cannot say that he poses an EMS. So, your point about Madara having an EMS (so he shouldn't be afraid of anyone (which I quoted above)) is speculation, considering that we do not know where Madara's power (admitted to be weaker) comes from.

In other words, while Madara was undoubtedly "distressed" by "What's in the Box!", his unknown EMS cannot be used to determine what is in the coffin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
I can't really argue with this, I suppose. But like I said, this is only true if Tobi is Madara. Like I said, we don't know for sure if he is, and there's no point in hiding Tobi's MS considering we already know he has it, and there's not been any hint that Madara can't use it anymore. I don't think it's a matter of Kabuto having posession of a body that can defeat Madara, but a deeper, darker secret.
Entirely possible. I am not trying to limit potential theories, only show which evidence already known supports the theories (etc). I would be more than content for the "box" to contain a deep dark secret, but I would also be content for the "box" to contain Izuna or a powerful fighter, etc.

Last edited by james0246; 2010-04-23 at 13:30.
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Old 2010-04-23, 14:39   Link #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
What's the point of hiding Madara's face? Maybe, it is simply to keep the readers guessing or keep the suspense and tension high. For example, everyone knew that Racer X was Speed's older brother (X would even mention it in several episodes), but it took the entire series before he would take off the mask and actually admit (to Speed) that he was Rex Racer (this was a form of dramatic tension by the creators to keep the audience in suspense for when the reveal was finally shown). Madara hiding his face could simply be a plot device, a red herring, to keep the reader's off balance and always questioning Tobi's motives (because, without the mask or the "mystery", Madara is actually a somewhat straightforward villain, not as much as Kisame or Hidan (who are extreme examples of simplicity in action), but I also do not really think Madara has shown his story to be as "deep" as Nagato's or potentially even Itachi's).

In the end, Madara's disguise is only as deep or meaningful as you wish it to be...
While there would be no point in hiding Madara's Sharingan if Tobi really is Madara (a point I will further back later in this post), there could be various reasons why Madara's hiding his face. Perhaps he sustained too many injuries after his battle with the Shodai Hokage. But you are right that it is otherwise pointless to hide his face as well. And the fact that he's even hiding it when he's stated in front of the entire ninja world that he is Madara is even more a reason to suspect he isn't in fact Madara, which is the point I was making from the beginning, but a hypothetical Mr. X.

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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Actually, you have. "For someone like Madara...you'd expect him to be unafraid of anything." But that is only partially my point...
Sorry, wrong choice of words


Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I, actually, was using your post as a springboard for an overall statement (not specifically directed at you). That is why I mentioned "fear", a word others have used to describe Madara's potential mental and emotional state at the time.

But, you are correct, I did not adequately describe my point. I meant to imply, by using the words "startled" and "disturbed", that "distressed" is a correct interpretation. But, this implication obviously failed .
Well, I never really meant to say he was afraid. However, the fact that he is extremely aversive to direct confrontation also lends more to the suspicion that there is something Tobi is hiding. Not once has he actually tried killing anyone, even after Deidara's death. Madara has the power to absolutely control the Kyuubi, and with his power, he could easily have captured Naruto when they first met. However, he did not do that even when Naruto attacked him close. He did not send him to his private dimension. Instead, he phased through him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
That wasn't my point. Much the same as we cannot say with full certainty that Madara/Tobi posses a MS, we definitely cannot say that he poses an EMS. So, your point about Madara having an EMS (so he shouldn't be afraid of anyone (which I quoted above)) is speculation, considering that we do not know where Madara's power (admitted to be weaker) comes from.

In other words, while Madara was undoubtedly "distressed" by "What's in the Box!", his unknown EMS cannot be used to determine what is in the coffin.
Well, if he doesn't have the MS, it's obvious he wouldn't have the EMS. I'm not speculating that Madara has the EMS. It is fact coming straight from the manga:

Spoiler for manga scans:


This is only valid if we're to say that Tobi is Madara. If Tobi really is Madara, then there wouldn't be a reason for Kishi to have Tobi hide his real powers. If Tobi is Mr. X, then there is just no way to know. That's why I think Tobi is Mr. X rather than Madara, because if he really is Madara, hiding his MS (and his face) would be quite pointless.
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Old 2010-04-23, 18:51   Link #103
yakumo-chan
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I agree with Yoko Takeo!!

anyways.... I really think that Tobi is someone else...

also remember what Kakashi said???? "Considering his plan, I doubt It could be anyone else"

you know why he said that??

its because madara was supposed to be an avenger not a peace maker!!
if he is madara.., he should be taking revenge on konoha not making a world of peace!!!
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Old 2010-04-23, 21:00   Link #104
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Originally Posted by yakumo-chan View Post
its because madara was supposed to be an avenger not a peace maker!!
if he is madara.., he should be taking revenge on konoha not making a world of peace!!!
Actually Madara, like Orochimaru and Pain, are peacemakers. Just that they have a warped sense of peace. That's Kishi's main theme: everybody wants peace, it's just the method to get to it. Oro's method is to learn eternal life jutsu. Pain's method is to make the world fear warfare.

As seen in the chapter at the shogun summit, Madara's vision of world peace is to place the whole world in an eternal genjutsu.
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Old 2010-04-23, 21:22   Link #105
yakumo-chan
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Originally Posted by TGNail View Post
Actually Madara, like Orochimaru and Pain, are peacemakers. Just that they have a warped sense of peace. That's Kishi's main theme: everybody wants peace, it's just the method to get to it. Oro's method is to learn eternal life jutsu. Pain's method is to make the world fear warfare.

As seen in the chapter at the shogun summit, Madara's vision of world peace is to place the whole world in an eternal genjutsu.
actually what Im saying was that what happened in his revenge in konoha???
Im so sure if madara was alive he will have his revenge on konoha not make a world of peace!

I think that is the reason why kakashi said this lines "Considering his plan, He could be anyone else"
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Old 2010-04-24, 07:28   Link #106
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Madara never sought peace. He sought power and wanted to prove his Uchiha clan was superior to Hashirama. Yakumo-chan is correct in saying that Madara wanted nothing but vengeance against Konoha. He was no peacemaker.
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Old 2010-04-24, 07:54   Link #107
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I would like to specify my or other vote. By voting thus, I mean that it is actually Jim Carrey who is under the Mask.
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Old 2010-04-24, 07:58   Link #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf777 View Post
I would like to specify my or other vote. By voting thus, I mean that it is actually Jim Carrey who is under the Mask.
This.

Spoiler for The Mask:
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Old 2010-04-24, 08:01   Link #109
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This.

Spoiler for The Mask:
Thank you. As you can see, it says that it is Jim Carrey right there ^
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Old 2010-04-24, 11:08   Link #110
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
While there would be no point in hiding Madara's Sharingan if Tobi really is Madara (a point I will further back later in this post), there could be various reasons why Madara's hiding his face. Perhaps he sustained too many injuries after his battle with the Shodai Hokage.
Once again. It could be a simple red herring to add more depth to an otherwise somewhat simplistic character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
But you are right that it is otherwise pointless to hide his face as well. And the fact that he's even hiding it when he's stated in front of the entire ninja world that he is Madara is even more a reason to suspect he isn't in fact Madara,
Actually, Madara has taken off his mask several times to confirm his identity (to other characters). He was going to do it to Sasuke (until Itachi interfered), he did it with Kisame, and obviously Zetsu knows his face. While Zetsu addressing Madara as Tobi is some evidence supporting the claiming that he is someone else, the fact that Kisame directly addressed him as Madara is clear evidence that the person under the mask is Madara (or at least someone that has called himself Madara for quite a long time).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
Well, I never really meant to say he was afraid. However, the fact that he is extremely aversive to direct confrontation also lends more to the suspicion that there is something Tobi is hiding.
Madara explained his aversion based on resources. To defeat Kabuto and his zombies would require too much effort, consequently Madara's war effort would suffer just to defeat a potential, if short term, ally.

"What's in the Box?!" obviously surprised and agitated Madara/Tobi, but it needn't be a sinister as you imagine (then again, it could be worse than anyone imagined ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
Not once has he actually tried killing anyone, even after Deidara's death.
So what? Zetsu hasn't actually killed (or tried to kill) anyone, but I expect he could kill most of the lower tier fighters with little problem. Technically Kisame hasn't killed anyone, but he can still whop ass. Sasuke, and so many others haven't, technically, killed anyone either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
Madara has the power to absolutely control the Kyuubi, and with his power, he could easily have captured Naruto when they first met.
How does Madara controlling the Kyuubi in any way reflect on his times with Naruto? Naruto is not the Kyuubi, so there is no reason to assume that Madara can control Naruto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
However, he did not do that even when Naruto attacked him close. He did not send him to his private dimension. Instead, he phased through him.
And Zetsu could have taken both Naruto and Sasuke 3 years ago when they were both exhausted after the VotE battle.

Whatever Akatsuki's final plans are, Naruto is not needed yet, so they do not focus on him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
This is only valid if we're to say that Tobi is Madara. If Tobi really is Madara, then there wouldn't be a reason for Kishi to have Tobi hide his real powers.
That is completely false. We do not know what happened in the battle with Hashirama, for all we know Madara's chakra was sealed; or maybe, for whatever reason, he only has a limited amount left; or because he lost an eye most of his powers vanished; or any number of other explanations. Simply because Madara isn't a God anymore, doesn't automatically mean he isn't still Madara, nor does it necessitate that Tobi be anyone else.

The only solid piece of evidence that Tobi might be someone other than Madara is found in the scene with Kabuto. Obviously "What's in the Box!?" is the key, but until we see a glimpse of the contents, we must be content with Tobi being Madara.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
if he really is Madara, hiding his MS (and his face) would be quite pointless.
Unless there is a reason.

Anecdote: Just last chapter (491), I called the autograph scene between Naruto and some shinobi pointless, because it potentially added nothing to the plot and it served as filler. But, once 492 rolled around, all of a sudden what I once thought to be pointless immediately became central to the story.

Kishimoto need supply only an explanation to explain why Madara is not a God anymore, then everything would be cleared up.
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Old 2010-04-24, 12:51   Link #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Actually, Madara has taken off his mask several times to confirm his identity (to other characters). He was going to do it to Sasuke (until Itachi interfered), he did it with Kisame, and obviously Zetsu knows his face. While Zetsu addressing Madara as Tobi is some evidence supporting the claiming that he is someone else, the fact that Kisame directly addressed him as Madara is clear evidence that the person under the mask is Madara (or at least someone that has called himself Madara for quite a long time).
Kisame and Zetsu are pretty easy to trick actually, although maybe, as you say, Zetsu may know Tobi's true identity. But there's no way for Kisame, at least, to see through Henge. For all we know, Tobi could have used a simple Henge technique to make Kisame think he is Madara. There was no one else there to witness him after all. However, he was prepared to show his face to another Sharingan user, but it's quite likely Sasuke doesn't exactly know what Madara looks like. That said, whatever face Tobi was going to show him, Sasuke wouldn't believed it was Madara anyways (even if it's not the same face he would show Kisame). Or he could've used an old-fashioned face mask. Only a Byakugan could see through that.

All in all, there are ways for Tobi to pretend to be Madara even without his mask. The real question is why, when we've already seen Madara's face in flashbacks, did Kishi keep Tobi's face hidden in the panels when we already know what he looks like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Madara explained his aversion based on resources. To defeat Kabuto and his zombies would require too much effort, consequently Madara's war effort would suffer just to defeat a potential, if short term, ally.
I can understand why he doesn't want to fight someone like Kabuto. But what of Naruto, Kakashi and their team when he confronted them? Someone of Madara's power, who could still supposedly control the Kyuubi and nearly annihilate Konoha in the process, would have no trouble against Naruto, who has Kyuubi's chakra and would therefore have been completely susceptible to Madara's influence, Kakashi who is terribly lacking in chakra, and the others who are relatively inexperienced. Surely he could've beaten them right then and there, but instead, he preferred to leave the fight to someone else. Why? His aim is to capture the Kyuubi, but he didn't do anything against Naruto when he was right in front of him. That's what I mean by his aversion from battle. He simply does not fight even when he's placed in such a situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
"What's in the Box?!" obviously surprised and agitated Madara/Tobi, but it needn't be a sinister as you imagine (then again, it could be worse than anyone imagined ).
Believe me when I say this: if I replaced Kishi was the author and he simply took care of the drawings, Naruto would be much darker and more Seinen than Shounen

Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
So what? Zetsu hasn't actually killed (or tried to kill) anyone, but I expect he could kill most of the lower tier fighters with little problem. Technically Kisame hasn't killed anyone, but he can still whop ass. Sasuke, and so many others haven't, technically, killed anyone either.
Not exactly my point though it has a ring of truth to it. Like I said above, though, Tobi simply doesn't fight even when there are people fighting him directly, even the Kyuubi Jinchuuriki himself. And Zetsu isn't a fighter, but a spy. Whatever skills he has aren't exactly oriented toward battle the way Kisame's abilities are. While Kisame hasn't killed anyone yet, he still never backed away from a fight the way Tobi did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
How does Madara controlling the Kyuubi in any way reflect on his times with Naruto? Naruto is not the Kyuubi, so there is no reason to assume that Madara can control Naruto.
He cannot control Naruto, but he can control the Kyuubi's chakra. Remember that Sasuke entered Naruto's consciousness and supressed Kyuubi basically with the flick of a finger. I'm quite certain Madara could do much more than that if he tried. The point is that he didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
And Zetsu could have taken both Naruto and Sasuke 3 years ago when they were both exhausted after the VotE battle.

Whatever Akatsuki's final plans are, Naruto is not needed yet, so they do not focus on him.
Zetsu did not take Naruto because iirc, it is neccessary that the Akatsuki capture Naruto after they have everyone else, or at least extract the Kyuubi last. They were in no hurry to capture Naruto and Zetsu's role is to function as a spy, as I said above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
That is completely false. We do not know what happened in the battle with Hashirama, for all we know Madara's chakra was sealed; or maybe, for whatever reason, he only has a limited amount left; or because he lost an eye most of his powers vanished; or any number of other explanations. Simply because Madara isn't a God anymore, doesn't automatically mean he isn't still Madara, nor does it necessitate that Tobi be anyone else.
You're right in saying we don't know what could have happened back then, nor am I actually denying Tobi is Madara. But if Hashirama had been capable of sealing Sharingan powers and chakra, why did he not do so before? Considering the number of times they fought, Hashirama had plenty of opportunities and all the motivation to find a way to fight against Sharingan users specifically. Also, if his chakra had been sealed, I find it hard that Madara could have lived for so long. After all, Madara said that it was partly thanks to his exceptional chakra that he had lived for so long. If he sustained so many injuries during that battle that Madara could not use as much chakra anymore, it's difficult that he could have lived for so long. For that reason, I'm more inclined to believe Tobi is Mr. X and not Madara and that if he is Madara, he shouldn't be incapable of using his powers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Unless there is a reason.

Anecdote: Just last chapter (491), I called the autograph scene between Naruto and some shinobi pointless, because it potentially added nothing to the plot and it served as filler. But, once 492 rolled around, all of a sudden what I once thought to be pointless immediately became central to the story.

Kishimoto need supply only an explanation to explain why Madara is not a God anymore, then everything would be cleared up.
Possibly. Like I said, I'm not denying anything, I'm just putting forward a possibility.
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Old 2010-04-24, 13:02   Link #112
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"Tobi" is a pun on 10-tails. This isn't a coincidence but is meaningful. Tobi is 10-tail's personality/will...
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Old 2010-04-24, 13:18   Link #113
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Since this conversation is getting a little pointless (and is looping), I'll step aside. But first, a few quick points:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
However, he was prepared to show his face to another Sharingan user, but it's quite likely Sasuke doesn't exactly know what Madara looks like.
Sasuke fought on the head of Madara...so he should know what he looks like .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
I can understand why he doesn't want to fight someone like Kabuto. But what of Naruto, Kakashi and their team when he confronted them?
Madara was stalling for time. That is all he was there for. It was not his job to acquire the Kyuubi, nor did he even care about Naruto (at the time...in fact he still doesn't). The entire reason Madara was even out and about was to get Sasuke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
He cannot control Naruto, but he can control the Kyuubi's chakra. Remember that Sasuke entered Naruto's consciousness and supressed Kyuubi basically with the flick of a finger. I'm quite certain Madara could do much more than that if he tried. The point is that he didn't.
Again, no. Suppressing the Kyuubi when it is actively working within Naruto is not the same as when Naruto is not using the Kyuubi's chakra. Naruto was not using the Kyuubi's chakra against Madara/Tobi, so there was nothing Madara could have done (in regards to the Kyuubi's chakra in Naruto). It would like turning off the water supply when the faucet was already turned off - no difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Struggler View Post
"Tobi" is a pun on 10-tails. This isn't a coincidence but is meaningful. Tobi is 10-tail's personality/will...
I mentioned this in a chapter thread not that long ago. I was going to include it as one of the poll suggestions, but felt that it might be too spoilerific for those anime fans that might accidentally click on this thread...

Last edited by james0246; 2010-04-24 at 13:45.
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Old 2010-04-24, 17:28   Link #114
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Originally Posted by Struggler View Post
"Tobi" is a pun on 10-tails. This isn't a coincidence but is meaningful. Tobi is 10-tail's personality/will...
So what are the 9 demons then, is their will a part of the monster's will/soul ?
I could imagine that every demon has one specific part of a personality. For example the kyuubi has the hatred part, so it's the most difficult to control. The 8 tails sure is much more cooperative. We know that the chakra was divided into 9 parts, also we know that with chakra comes the will of the demon, so maybe the will of the 10-tails was also divided.
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Old 2010-04-24, 18:26   Link #115
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Actually, Madara has taken off his mask several times to confirm his identity (to other characters). He was going to do it to Sasuke (until Itachi interfered), he did it with Kisame, and obviously Zetsu knows his face. While Zetsu addressing Madara as Tobi is some evidence supporting the claiming that he is someone else, the fact that Kisame directly addressed him as Madara is clear evidence that the person under the mask is Madara (or at least someone that has called himself Madara for quite a long time).
Is that so? Kisame never did that. He said "Mizukage-san" err... I mean Madara.
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Old 2010-04-25, 06:40   Link #116
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Many here comlained that Tobi can't be Madara because he doesn't use to almost no skills that originaly Madara used. There is simple reason for this. I believe that whatever happen in his fight with first left him without the ability to recrete the chakra he spends. (his chakra was one of the reasons that he was so powerfull, he said so himself). He probably has a certain amount of chakra left for him to use, and if he spends it he'll probably die. Thats why he created akatsuki and use it's members for his goal (he doesn't have the power to do it himself). He also said something to Kabuoro that he'll weaken him self if he fights him. Hil teleport jutsu probably doesn't spend a lot of chakra, tahs why he is using it. Also about his sharingan being alvays on, well he could probably turn it of when no ones looking
Thats why he wants to seal juubi inside of himself. He'll gain ultimate chakra amount and juubi's chakra will heal his body, just like kyuubi does with Naruto (and in proces gain control over whole world so it's a win-win situation for him.
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Old 2010-04-26, 13:57   Link #117
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No ability is "unique", as you call it....Itachi and Sasuke both have Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, each with their own variations. In the same way, Kakashi and Madara can have variations of time/space techniques, without necessarily meaning that the origin of their power is the same.
Did you read anything in my post besides the one sentence you quoted? What about Shizui's mind control? Is that not "unique"? And if all sharringan abilities are common (apparently including Shizui's) then again as I said, why the heck aren't other expert MS users utilizing such useful techniques like mind control and warping between dimensions? It seems to me that for every sharringan user we see, we also get at least one new ability along with him. Some like Izanagi are stated to be common, but others such as Shizui's there is absolutely no evidence that that's the case. The lack of common usage is as good of an argument for their "uniqueness" as anything.

Disregarding evidence for Obito=Tobi, I could see Tobi being the will of the 10 tails, except if that were the case, what would frighten him in the box? I mean if he's something that sinister and powerful, why would he care if it's revealed he's not Madara... in fact, why pose as Madara in the first place? And of course I have a difficult time seeing him being the will of it because of the biiju's. They clearly have their own will and chakra, so I think it's safe to assume that those are the lesser parts of not only the 10-tail's chakra, but his will as well.

Okay, I take it back. I really don't see much of a way he could be the 10-tail's will. It would have been an appropriate twist if the story was written differently, but the set up for it just isn't there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milan kyuubi View Post
Many here comlained that Tobi can't be Madara because he doesn't use to almost no skills that originaly Madara used. There is simple reason for this. I believe that whatever happen in his fight with first left him without the ability to recrete the chakra he spends. (his chakra was one of the reasons that he was so powerfull, he said so himself). He probably has a certain amount of chakra left for him to use, and if he spends it he'll probably die. Thats why he created akatsuki and use it's members for his goal (he doesn't have the power to do it himself). He also said something to Kabuoro that he'll weaken him self if he fights him. Hil teleport jutsu probably doesn't spend a lot of chakra, tahs why he is using it. Also about his sharingan being alvays on, well he could probably turn it of when no ones looking
Thats why he wants to seal juubi inside of himself. He'll gain ultimate chakra amount and juubi's chakra will heal his body, just like kyuubi does with Naruto (and in proces gain control over whole world so it's a win-win situation for him.
Interesting theory I don't think I've heard before. That time/space thing he does has to be using some (significant?) chakra though, and it seems he uses it more than necessary if he's really that limited. He keeps putting himself in the line of fire (like wondering around with Daitara as Tobi, or confronting the Konoha group during the Sasuke/Itachi battle). Those were pointless encounters for him, and especially with the Konoha group he kind of spams the slipping into another dimension thing.

I'm not really sure what people are arguing with this logic in the first place. I mean, what skills do we know that Madara could do in the past that he hasn't done recently? I think there are some manga images showing him use fire jutsu, and then of course there is the controlling of the nine tails, but other than that you don't really see him use his MS in the flashbacks of the past. So arguing that he can't be Madara because he doesn't use madara's original powers is silly.
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Old 2010-04-26, 14:13   Link #118
james0246
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^Not really trying to start a conversation, but...What would frighten the Jyuubi's Will (in Madara's body)? Isn't that an easy question? Obviously the one person who defeated it: Rikudou Sennin.

Additionally, while some powers may or may not be "unique", we can clearly say that some powers/techniques are more powerful in one eye compared to other eyes. Shisui had superior eyes in regards to controlling others; many fans have speculated that Kakashi has better eyes for copying techniques (which is why he, and not an Uchiha, was the "Copy-nin"); Sasuke has often mentioned powerful eyes; etc. Additionally, other techniques (Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Susano'o and Izanagi) have all had various degrees of power - some eyes cast the techniques better than other eyes.

Last edited by james0246; 2010-04-26 at 19:08.
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Old 2010-04-26, 18:08   Link #119
yakumo-chan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilis View Post
Disregarding evidence for Obito=Tobi, I could see Tobi being the will of the 10 tails, except if that were the case, what would frighten him in the box? I mean if he's something that sinister and powerful, why would he care if it's revealed he's not Madara... in fact, why pose as Madara in the first place?
I think he pose as Madara because he is planning something...... I dont know what but we'll just have to wait..... I think Tobi's plan will "WOW" us in the futute.... like we will be saying "wow,so thats why..."

again..... you guys are forgetting kabuto's lines.... "Relax, I wont tell anyone"

which means that inside the box is not a very powerful person but to reveal something that tobi doesnt wanted to be revealed.....

again... what will happen if he was revealed that he was not Madara??

- It will destroy his plan of course.....
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Old 2010-04-27, 08:32   Link #120
Ashaman
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post

Additionally, while some powers may or may not be "unique", we can clearly say that some powers/techniques are more powerful in one eye compared to other eyes. Shisui had superior eyes in regards to controlling others; many fans have speculated that Kakashi has better eyes for copying techniques (which is why he, and not an Uchiha, was the "Copy-nin"); Sasuke has often mentioned powerful eyes; etc. Additionally, other techniques (Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Susano'o and Izanagi) have all had various degrees of power - some eyes cast the techniques better than other eyes.
Yep, agreed.

It seems Sasuke's Tsukuyomi is weaker than Itachi's, but his Amaterasu is stronger. Plus, with Izanagi we were point blank told that time limit varies; but we are also told that Orochimaru had messed with the eyes to give 1 minute time limit.

It stands to reason that Shusui had better Genjutsu eyes.

Taking it further, MS eyes may be similar in that they all share eye the same eye skill set, but some are so weak as to be useless.

For example: Madara may be able to warp, while Kaka's warp ability is less powerful, and Sasuke's is so weak he doesn't even know about it.
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