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Old 2010-04-26, 16:52   Link #6961
Nosauz
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
i don't disagree with you vexx, but eventually the whole it is the US fault is going to wear out. Other South American countries like Argentina and Chile had US back strongman in charge in 70s and most of the 80s but has pretty much put that in the past and has move on to a imperfect but still much more democratic society the countries like Venezuela, Bolivia and Peru.
I mean killing allendes, supporting the nicouraguan contra with CIA funds really don't help with the notion that the U.S. is not at fault. If you think about eventually these people do have to move on, but it doesn't mean that this delay in advancement in their societies cannot be blamed on the U.S. The notion that moving on must also entail forgiveness is just ridiculous, especially assinanting people in order to prop up your own proxy governments counter to the peoples wishes and the peoples interests.
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Old 2010-04-26, 16:56   Link #6962
Joojoobees
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
it is not the US responsibility to promote Human rights and democracy in SA. It is South American countries own decision to decide on what they want.
Then why do you care if a Venezuelan judge gets arrested? If you believe it is their own decision, then let them do what they please.

On the other hand, if you do care about human rights in Latin America, we have a pretty good example of an ineffective approach to achieving that in the foreign policy of the United States of America over the past hundred and fifty years.
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Old 2010-04-26, 17:08   Link #6963
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
i don't disagree with you vexx, but eventually the whole it is the US fault is going to wear out. Other South American countries like Argentina and Chile had US back strongman in charge in 70s and most of the 80s but has pretty much put that in the past and has move on to a imperfect but still much more democratic society the countries like Venezuela, Bolivia and Peru.
That sounds like a pretty week excuse.

"Some people whose shit we fucked up got better, so what are you complaining about?"
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Old 2010-04-26, 23:05   Link #6965
justsomeguy
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Unfortunately, here in NYC we tend to ignore beggars and homeless people, because we have no idea what we would get ourselves involved in.

Personally, I have been in two such situations:
1) Once when I went to get lunch at a McDonalds, I saw a poorly dressed man laying down outside at the bottom of the wheelchair ramp, with his bagged food scattered about him, obviously unconscious and possibly dead. Since I work in a hospital area, there were quite a few people dressed in scrubs standing around conversing with each other, apparently not paying any attention to him. Since the trained medical personnel ignored him, and I myself having no such training and assuming that somebody had already called 911, I just went to get my lunch. When I got out a cop car and an ambulance had arrived.

2) On the way to work, at the #7 subway terminal in Flushing. An Asian guy was sitting on the floor, his head tilted back against the seat, his mouth wide open. Judging from the position of his body, it's possible that it slid off the seat in a rigid position. The MTA workers were unable to wake him, so it is possible he was in a very deep sleep, or dead. The other passengers and I just glanced at them with morbid fascination, until we got the notice that the train was being taken out of service (obviously due to this grotesque scene).
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Old 2010-04-27, 05:06   Link #6966
ganbaru
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http://cosmicnavellint.blogspot.com/...-tim-wise.html
A interesting reading.
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Old 2010-04-27, 06:39   Link #6967
SaintessHeart
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Well it happened over here in Singapore too. Ask TRL about a Causcasian who stepped in-between a woman and her aggressor and was scorned by the general public on the forum page of the newspaper. A writer even claimed "act of self-preservation" as an excuse not to step in.

In another case over here, a woman fell into the Singapore River and had foreign nationals who had no training in CPR save her, bystanders galore. Even a side editorial claimed that "people don't know what to do at that moment"....I think it is more of "people don't know what to do in order not to risk their lives at that moment".

The decadence of the society is judged by how much an individual in it views the value of their life as compared to the similar members in the same society. It is the fear of death, rather than the "idea of self-preservation", that drives this individuals to just stand and watch. Granted if there is no case of physical violence, it would be better to enlist the help of nearby security (mall security, etc) to break up the "elements of public nuisance" (an indirect way of asking them to STFU and take your damn shit home and out of the public), but if there is physical harm attempted or caused, why not step in?

Keep in mind that nobody's life is worth anything. Since your death won't make a difference in this world, why not step in with your worthless life and do something to change that situation?
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Old 2010-04-27, 07:37   Link #6968
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Keep in mind that nobody's life is worth anything. Since your death won't make a difference in this world, why not step in with your worthless life and do something to change that situation?
Simple, "It's not my job. There are people that get paid for that. Besides I'm sure someone else will call the authorities. I'm late for work and I have that huge presentation today. I can't get caught up in this."

Also, there's a big flaw in your thinking there. If nobody's life is worth anything to society as a whole, why should I risk my life, which has value to myself, to save the life of someone else who is both worthless to me and to society as a whole?



This next bit isn't directed at you, just speaking in general. Everyone talks about society today being decadent, but I don't really see it. We aren't generally executing people in large numbers for public spectacle these days.
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Old 2010-04-27, 07:40   Link #6969
gummybear
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Quote:
Keep in mind that nobody's life is worth anything.
funny story, I used to think like that when I was younger, then I got hit by a car and almost die, I was lying on the road and for some reason I said to myself "your death means nothing to the world" and my next thought was "NOOOOOOOO, I DON'T WANT THAT, IT HAS TO MEAN SOMETHING".

You can argue with me, but it's one of those things that you have to go through before you realize how you should of see it another way.

On the other hand, my point was that at one point, one of the retard in the video HAD HIS PHONE OUT, calling 911 for a homeless person is not a crime anywhere in this world, SPECIALLY WHEN YOU SEE A PERSON LYING ON TOP OF A POOL OF BLOOD. You don't take picture of the blood when you have the f***in phone out, you call 911 <.<
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Old 2010-04-27, 07:59   Link #6970
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
Simple, "It's not my job. There are people that get paid for that. Besides I'm sure someone else will call the authorities. I'm late for work and I have that huge presentation today. I can't get caught up in this."

Also, there's a big flaw in your thinking there. If nobody's life is worth anything to society as a whole, why should I risk my life, which has value to myself, to save the life of someone else who is both worthless to me and to society as a whole?
So if another person views the same way, does it give the person the right not to save your valuable life?

True to the fact that the value of a life is set by a personal perspective, it doesn't give us the right to say "your life is worth much less than mine". Since nobody is invincible, and our mortality dictates that we can't take away anything from our life past death, that overall puts a zero-sum game into whatever one does in life right?

As we live, everything corresponds to the Nash Equilibrium. It is our actions that dictates whether we "win or lose" in life (where in actuality there is no winning or losing), thus the saying "think before you act". Whether it is thinking laterally, literally, with respect to the emotional and physical issues of another person, corresponding to the time, personal capability, etc, it is another issue.

My conclusion (not necessarily yours) : F*** all of the above. Do first, talk later. And use your conscience and your head (no more, no less) to cover your ass in case someone accuses you of being the "bad guy".

Quote:
This next bit isn't directed at you, just speaking in general. Everyone talks about society today being decadent, but I don't really see it. We aren't generally executing people in large numbers for public spectacle these days.
You do realise that my usage of the word "decadent" is sarcastic? If not, I shall explain :

The idea of decadent comes from the word "decade" which means that the thinking is backward. Since the modern thinking of the society dictates a NMFP (Not My F***ing Problem) mentality in general, it is ironic that such a train of thought pervades back a millennium where we are still cannibalistic cavemen*, and the lack of empathy for each other then stemmed and built a individualistic form of survivalism rather than a mutually-cohesive form of it.

In short, I am quoting political correctedness and branding it as a form of hypocrisy with regards to general behaviour.

* - alliteration in the sentence within overall sarcasm unintended. Don't negrep me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gummybear View Post
fOn the other hand, my point was that at one point, one of the retard in the video HAD HIS PHONE OUT, calling 911 for a homeless person is not a crime anywhere in this world, SPECIALLY WHEN YOU SEE A PERSON LYING ON TOP OF A POOL OF BLOOD. You don't take picture of the blood when you have the f***in phone out, you call 911 <.<
Well due to the fact that calling 911 requires you to leave an identification which might heap trouble upon you (like potential witness, death threats by the mugger, etc), many might not choose to call it.

But how much trouble can you get into? At least it won't impede on what little conscience you possess, nor would it make it tough for you upon realisation due to your lack of intelligence at that point of time and age to understand the magnitude of the situation.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-04-27, 08:13   Link #6971
Kusa-San
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
it is not the US responsibility to promote Human rights and democracy in SA. It is South American countries own decision to decide on what they want.
Yes you're right. US reponsability is to promote their interest in South America by putting dictator at the head of their states and killed million and million of people just for the sake of their own industry. In fact, the USA are responsible for most of the problem that South America has/had. And that since well since the Roosevelt corollary
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Old 2010-04-27, 12:33   Link #6972
Xion Valkyrie
Senior Member
 
 
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Noah's Ark possibly found?

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...turkey-arafat/

Fox News, but there's other news sites reporting it too, I picked this one as it doesn't have a mock-up of the ark as a picture.
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Old 2010-04-27, 12:34   Link #6973
Reckoner
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_552572.html

Quote:
Lost iPhone Investigation: Gizmodo Editor Jason Chen's Home Searched And Computers Seized

A computer-crime task force made up of multiple law enforcement agencies searched Gizmodo editor and blogger Jason Chen's house and car in Fremont, Calif., on Friday, according to a statement and search warrant documents provided by Gizmodo. The warrant, issued by a Superior Court judge in San Mateo County, said the computers and other devices may have been used to commit a felony. Steve Wagstaffe, spokesman for the San Mateo County District Attorney's office, confirmed the warrant's authenticity. Members of the Rapid Enforcement Allied Computer Team took several computers, hard drives, digital cameras, cell phones and other gadgets, plus Chen's American Express bill and copies of his checks.

Last week Gizmodo had one of the Web's hottest scoops when it posted photos of an Apple device that appeared to be a next-generation iPhone. It had been found in a bar in Redwood City, which is in San Mateo County, and sold for $5,000 by an unknown person to Gizmodo, a gadget blog owned by Gawker Media Inc. After Chen posted photos and details about the phone, Apple acknowledged the device belonged to the company, and Gizmodo returned it. Gawker Media said California's shield law, which protects journalists from having to turn over anonymous sources or unpublished material to law enforcement during a search, should apply to Chen's property.

Wagstaffe said the district attorney's office is examining that issue. Apple spokesman Steve Dowling declined to comment.
This is the guy who bought a next generation iphone from some guy in a bar.
Here is the original video he made:

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Old 2010-04-27, 13:46   Link #6974
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Well it happened over here in Singapore too. Ask TRL about a Causcasian who stepped in-between a woman and her aggressor and was scorned by the general public on the forum page of the newspaper. A writer even claimed "act of self-preservation" as an excuse not to step in.

In another case over here, a woman fell into the Singapore River and had foreign nationals who had no training in CPR save her, bystanders galore. Even a side editorial claimed that "people don't know what to do at that moment"....I think it is more of "people don't know what to do in order not to risk their lives at that moment".

The decadence of the society is judged by how much an individual in it views the value of their life as compared to the similar members in the same society. It is the fear of death, rather than the "idea of self-preservation", that drives this individuals to just stand and watch. Granted if there is no case of physical violence, it would be better to enlist the help of nearby security (mall security, etc) to break up the "elements of public nuisance" (an indirect way of asking them to STFU and take your damn shit home and out of the public), but if there is physical harm attempted or caused, why not step in?
So it's not attempted or caused at you, obviously.

Quote:
Keep in mind that nobody's life is worth anything.
Who said?
Quote:
Since your death won't make a difference in this world, why not step in with your worthless life and do something to change that situation?
What Kamui said: How is risking a worthless life to save another worthless life making a difference? It's worse than a zero-sum game. It's a game with no stakes at all.

I think I get what you're saying, sort of, but gods do you express it clumsily.

I don't really agree with you, anyway. Worth is relative, not something you, SaintlessHeart, can decree for anyone but yourself. My life's worth a lot to me. That of strangers? Not so much. Just like I know my life's worth squat to more than 7 billions people on Earth, and more to only a handful. It's not about right or wrong. It's a fact of life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
So if another person views the same way, does it give the person the right not to save your valuable life?
That's up to each individual to decide, isn't it? And the laws about non assistance, I suppose.

Quote:
True to the fact that the value of a life is set by a personal perspective, it doesn't give us the right to say "your life is worth much less than mine".
Not in absolute terms, no. But then, in absolute terms, you don't have any more right to decide every life's worth the same. Or anything. Or nothing.

Quote:
Since nobody is invincible, and our mortality dictates that we can't take away anything from our life past death, that overall puts a zero-sum game into whatever one does in life right?
That, too, is for everyone to decide for himself.

Quote:
As we live, everything corresponds to the Nash Equilibrium. It is our actions that dictates whether we "win or lose" in life (where in actuality there is no winning or losing), thus the saying "think before you act". Whether it is thinking laterally, literally, with respect to the emotional and physical issues of another person, corresponding to the time, personal capability, etc, it is another issue.
Our actions... and our values.

Quote:
My conclusion (not necessarily yours) : F*** all of the above. Do first, talk later. And use your conscience and your head (no more, no less) to cover your ass in case someone accuses you of being the "bad guy".
Yeah. And what if my conscience says "Walk away."?


Quote:
You do realise that my usage of the word "decadent" is sarcastic? If not, I shall explain :

The idea of decadent comes from the word "decade" which means that the thinking is backward.
Hadn't heard that one before. Decadent comes from the Latin "decadere", decay, fall from. Decade comes from the Greek "dekadas", group of ten.

I don't really like the idea of our world being decadent. It implies it being better before.

Quote:
Since the modern thinking of the society dictates a NMFP (Not My F***ing Problem) mentality in general, it is ironic that such a train of thought pervades back a millennium where we are still cannibalistic cavemen*, and the lack of empathy for each other then stemmed and built a individualistic form of survivalism rather than a mutually-cohesive form of it.
Are we truly more selfish? Personally, I quite like the idea of the monkeysphere. And I think the difference between now and a nostalgia-tinted then is that we spend so much more time among strangers.
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Old 2010-04-27, 14:00   Link #6975
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
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Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
<snip>
Well that is just my two-cents. Up to you to decide which basic form of ethics you want to use, or just throw the whole pie out of the window.

Quote:
Yeah. And what if my conscience says "Walk away."?
Please do. However it is hard to believe that practically out of so many of them all, none of them did anything.

Maybe 25 is too small a statistic until someone comes along and called 911. Maybe if we left the body a little while longer, until probably 100-200 people came by, there might be someone who calls.

But out of that statistic, maybe none will because throwing 10 coins can have the possibility of them landing in all tails and no heads. As long as there is a chance of something like that happening, it will occur. And this is only a single situation.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-04-27, 14:17   Link #6976
psycho_luny
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this was on the news yesterday, a couple of robbers threw a pregnant women out of the window.

on a morning a couple of people forced themself into a house, while a man and women are sleeping. the man wakes up first by the sound and immediately jumps out the window leaving his pregnant wife alone, then the robbers reach the room she's in and throw her out of the window.

1: what kind of a dick, leaves his pregnant wife alone when there are people forcing their way into you house.
2:what kind of fucks, throw a pregnant women out of the window.
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Old 2010-04-27, 14:40   Link #6977
TooPurePureBoy
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Location: Retracing my steps.....
@Ahn-Min: I read the article you linked and it was interesting (though I'm not sure I agree with it) but I did find one line to be quite funny.

"As long as everybody gets their own bananas and shares with the few in their Monkeysphere, the system will thrive even though nobody is even trying to make the system thrive. This is perhaps how Ayn Rand would have put it, had she not been such a hateful bitch."

Well said.

Although, it is kind of a contradiction (even if he was just being witty) because he did the same thing he decries in the article by trying to simplify Ayn Rand into a 2d character.

Good little read though, thanks.
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Old 2010-04-27, 15:07   Link #6978
Solace
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Well due to the fact that calling 911 requires you to leave an identification which might heap trouble upon you (like potential witness, death threats by the mugger, etc), many might not choose to call it.
Then you call from a pay phone or a local business instead of your cell phone so you can be anonymous. There's a difference between being a busybody and being a concerned citizen. Peeping into someone's house and calling the cops because he's naked? That's being a busybody. Guy on the street lying in a pool of blood? You fucking call 911.

I saw this new story yesterday on CNN, where some retarded psychologist tried to explain how society is so desensitized to violence because of games and movies that people don't know how to react when it happens in real life. Bull crap...it's just a lack of knowledge of what to do in fucked up situations. Did you know that one of the reasons why heart attacks are so fatal is because most bystanders don't know CPR? The survival rate for heart attack victims who receive CPR while paramedics are en route versus those who gawk is significant.

When people complain that people are sheep this is exactly one of the reasons why. Compassion doesn't mean you have to have a bleeding heart, just a helping hand. Helping an old lady across the street, for example. Just one kind act goes a long way.

And while I laughed at the wit in the monkeysphere article, I have to also laugh at how the author unintentionally writes it exactly as he portrays it; assuming that everyone is like the people he portrays. Sorry, not everyone is so uncaring. If I had seen that man on the street, I would have called 911 as soon as possible.

Sure, you have to be careful. Stopping to pick up hitchhikers and helping strangers who have "car trouble" is dangerous. It's not dangerous to make a call to professionals who are trained to handle those situations however. Being a good citizen doesn't mean you have to be a hero, you just have to use the phone to call 911 instead of taking a picture.

The best reason why...is that instead of some homeless guy, it could be you lying there bleeding after saving someone's life while people ignore you in your final moments. What if the homeless man had done nothing as well? There would be a dead woman lying there for an hour instead. At least his final act was a demonstration of how one worthless life saved another. It's just a shame that his own death could have been prevented by those worthless lives who walked right past. I bet at the very least, that woman is thankful.
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Old 2010-04-27, 15:37   Link #6979
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Then you call from a pay phone or a local business instead of your cell phone so you can be anonymous. There's a difference between being a busybody and being a concerned citizen. Peeping into someone's house and calling the cops because he's naked? That's being a busybody. Guy on the street lying in a pool of blood? You fucking call 911.

I saw this new story yesterday on CNN, where some retarded psychologist tried to explain how society is so desensitized to violence because of games and movies that people don't know how to react when it happens in real life. Bull crap...it's just a lack of knowledge of what to do in fucked up situations. Did you know that one of the reasons why heart attacks are so fatal is because most bystanders don't know CPR? The survival rate for heart attack victims who receive CPR while paramedics are en route versus those who gawk is significant.
I worry about the legal consequences of a failed CPR. And the health consequences of using mouth to mouth on a sick guy.


Quote:
And while I laughed at the wit in the monkeysphere article, I have to also laugh at how the author unintentionally writes it exactly as he portrays it; assuming that everyone is like the people he portrays.
The author doesn't claim to be superhuman. He doesn't pretend his monkeysphere is any bigger than anyone's.
Quote:
Sorry, not everyone is so uncaring. If I had seen that man on the street, I would have called 911 as soon as possible.
No doubt. But that doesn't contradict the article, which does acknowledge you can be nice to people outside your monkeysphere. It just isn't quite the same. I'd also like to note that someone you see, close up, isn't that distant in monkeysphere terms. Sure, he isn't your brother. But he isn't a faceless idiot on the internet posting an article supporting the opposite of whatever political opinion you happen to hold, either.

Quote:
The best reason why...is that instead of some homeless guy, it could be you lying there bleeding after saving someone's life while people ignore you in your final moments. What if the homeless man had done nothing as well? There would be a dead woman lying there for an hour instead. At least his final act was a demonstration of how one worthless life saved another. It's just a shame that his own death could have been prevented by those worthless lives who walked right past. I bet at the very least, that woman is thankful.
Not so thankful she called 911, apparently. Whatever happened to her?
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Old 2010-04-27, 15:39   Link #6980
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
Noah's Ark possibly found?

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...turkey-arafat/

Fox News, but there's other news sites reporting it too, I picked this one as it doesn't have a mock-up of the ark as a picture.
Since the Noah story is basically a direct lift of older myths and legends from neighboring civilizations, I'd say .. not.

People "discover" Noah's Ark every few years..... with virtually nothing to back it up. The best single piece of evidence of any regional "flood" is some geological evidence that the Mediterranean/Black Sea area had a glacial dam break overflow it some time shortly after the agricultural age started (http://www.christiananswers.net/q-crs/crs-blacksea.html) (rather like the one that happened in the US Northwest Pacific about 15000 years ago that Indian tribal legends mention and the local geologic evidence supports - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula_Floods).

Last edited by Vexx; 2010-04-27 at 16:31.
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