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Old 2010-05-03, 08:42   Link #81
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by physics223 View Post
Are you going to be a second-year student this coming June? :P

Masaaki Yuasa creates his characters excellently. I was also impressed with Kemonozume. This is something more realistic; nevertheless the characters are fleshed-out well.
Third year na!

Didn't watch Kemonozume but I watched Kaiba. Originally when I heard he was making one for noitaminA I wanted Studio 4C to do it but Madhouse is doing just fine.
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Old 2010-05-03, 09:34   Link #82
Shiroth
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Enjoyed the second episode a lot, though i guess i'm more for the film creation setting then what we seen last time. Looking forward to what other clubs we'll see as we progress.

Akashi is still the best part of the show. She has such a charm about her, and i adore that character design. Sakamoto Maaya is the perfect icing on the cake.

As for the subs, i didn't have much problem keeping up this time compared to the first episode. It helps that i was preparing myself for what i was about to watch.
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Old 2010-05-03, 09:36   Link #83
Quarkboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
Enjoyed the second episode a lot, though i guess i'm more for the film creation setting then what we seen last time. Looking forward to what other clubs we'll see as we progress.

Akashi is still the best part of the show. She has such a charm about her, and i adore that character design. Sakamoto Maaya is the perfect icing on the cake.

As for the subs, i didn't have much problem keeping up this time compared to the first episode. It helps that i was preparing myself for what i was about to watch.
The speed was reduced significantly in episode 2. I wouldn't expect that to last, unfortunately...
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Old 2010-05-03, 09:42   Link #84
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
The speed was reduced significantly in episode 2. I wouldn't expect that to last, unfortunately...
Yeah you have a point. There wasn't nearly as many inner monologues in this episode compared to the first.
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Old 2010-05-03, 09:42   Link #85
physics223
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This is something I thought about in MAL:

If you really think about it, the term 'Tatami Galaxy' is an oxymoron. Assuming that one pertains to the regular Japanese room, 4.5 tatami mats correspond to nine square feet. That's how big the room is. Yet, incongruous with the tatami is term 'galaxy,' something vast and nigh-infinite. As a description of the titular character we are presented with this incongruity: he believes he can do big things, and yet is an insignificant person in reality, respected and treated as a normal human being by only Akashi-san and Ozu. Yet just as the limited space of the 4.5 tatami mat is creatively expanded and utilized by most Japanese, so can his wicked and jealous person be transformed into something good and humane.

As I've said in my post, Ozu is merely Watashi's scapegoat yet he himself fails to see that the shortcomings are coming from within. I believe that as the story develops we shall see him evolve to become the person who can speak his mind and cherish love as well as improve upon himself: perhaps he'll finally confess to Akashi-san.

I really like this anime because I am Watashi to some extent: I sometimes wonder whether I should still pine for the possibility of a beautiful lady to know, or content myself with the people who care for me. I don't mean this in merely romantic terms: should I stay content with the people who love me? Should I not look further? Or should I dream?

Although I'm not as vitriolic or vituperative as Watashi is, the questions that he posits in the anime are very relevant to me, and to everyone who calls himself human.

@MeoTwister5

Wait. How come? Were you two years ahead of me?
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Old 2010-05-03, 10:08   Link #86
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by physics223 View Post
This is something I thought about in MAL:

If you really think about it, the term 'Tatami Galaxy' is an oxymoron. Assuming that one pertains to the regular Japanese room, 4.5 tatami mats correspond to nine square feet. That's how big the room is. Yet, incongruous with the tatami is term 'galaxy,' something vast and nigh-infinite. As a description of the titular character we are presented with this incongruity: he believes he can do big things, and yet is an insignificant person in reality, respected and treated as a normal human being by only Akashi-san and Ozu. Yet just as the limited space of the 4.5 tatami mat is creatively expanded and utilized by most Japanese, so can his wicked and jealous person be transformed into something good and humane.

As I've said in my post, Ozu is merely Watashi's scapegoat yet he himself fails to see that the shortcomings are coming from within. I believe that as the story develops we shall see him evolve to become the person who can speak his mind and cherish love as well as improve upon himself: perhaps he'll finally confess to Akashi-san.

I really like this anime because I am Watashi to some extent: I sometimes wonder whether I should still pine for the possibility of a beautiful lady to know, or content myself with the people who care for me. I don't mean this in merely romantic terms: should I stay content with the people who love me? Should I not look further? Or should I dream?

Although I'm not as vitriolic or vituperative as Watashi is, the questions that he posits in the anime are very relevant to me, and to everyone who calls himself human.

@MeoTwister5

Wait. How come? Were you two years ahead of me?
Anyone who's had to wrestle with their own limitations as a person would know exactly how he feels. To me his room feels more like a prison than an expansive universe rife with possibilities. The viewers know as well that he is a very capable and thoughtful person, not just Ozu and Akashi. The only ones who don't know just how talented he is is everyone else but, more importantly, himself. He tries a lot but in the end he pushes himself down rather than expand and find new ways. Episode 2 shows that rather than get up and try again better, he gets up and tries again for something a whole lot different and a whole lot more sinister to say the least. The irony in all this is that it is when he decides to proceed with the more unethical choices is when his ability shines.

His room seems more like a prison retreat than anything else. At the end of the day when things go to hell he goes back there to wallow in his failure rather than cook up some other plan to better his life. At the end of episode 2 this is exactly what he does, and in the pilot episode this is where he is before he gets pushed to the festival and eventually gets tossed into the river.

Ozu isn't so much a scapegoat in the classic sense. You can't deny the fact that his influence does push the protagonist into his sense of failure, anger and some degree of probable paranoia. He's there when he needs him but he's also causing a lot of problems.

At first I thought the reset happened because he got tossed into the drink and probably drowned or something, but it seems like the reset happens either at a specific point of a specific day, or probably when he reaches the point of abject mental and emotional resignation to his plight.

And I failed Anatomy first year so I got held back 1 year.
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Old 2010-05-03, 10:34   Link #87
physics223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Anyone who's had to wrestle with their own limitations as a person would know exactly how he feels. To me his room feels more like a prison than an expansive universe rife with possibilities. The viewers know as well that he is a very capable and thoughtful person, not just Ozu and Akashi. The only ones who don't know just how talented he is is everyone else but, more importantly, himself. He tries a lot but in the end he pushes himself down rather than expand and find new ways. Episode 2 shows that rather than get up and try again better, he gets up and tries again for something a whole lot different and a whole lot more sinister to say the least. The irony in all this is that it is when he decides to proceed with the more unethical choices is when his ability shines.

His room seems more like a prison retreat than anything else. At the end of the day when things go to hell he goes back there to wallow in his failure rather than cook up some other plan to better his life. At the end of episode 2 this is exactly what he does, and in the pilot episode this is where he is before he gets pushed to the festival and eventually gets tossed into the river.

Ozu isn't so much a scapegoat in the classic sense. You can't deny the fact that his influence does push the protagonist into his sense of failure, anger and some degree of probable paranoia. He's there when he needs him but he's also causing a lot of problems.

At first I thought the reset happened because he got tossed into the drink and probably drowned or something, but it seems like the reset happens either at a specific point of a specific day, or probably when he reaches the point of abject mental and emotional resignation to his plight.

And I failed Anatomy first year so I got held back 1 year.
One has to note that his ability to create shined when he was vis-a-vis a pestering problem, who was Jougasaki. It was due to his anger that he was able to produce three movies of increasing complexity (as what can be seen in the episode). Before he sunk into his ad-hominem documentary, I thought that it was representative of him and his psyche (scroll down to episode two). He does feel trapped in his tatami room not merely because of himself but because of the circumstances and the suffering he has borne. Being ignored feels bad; perhaps this is the reason why he channels all this frustration into vituperative anger, acerbic and mordant.

Nevertheless, I'd argue that Ozu is Watashi's scapegoat because he could blame him despite Ozu's nature. The fact that Ozu exists alongside him is enough for Watashi to blame Ozu.

I think it's a specific time. The reset during the first and second episode occurred in the nighttime, roughly two years after his entrance into the university. This may be proven or disproven in the next episodes, however.
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Old 2010-05-03, 11:03   Link #88
Quarkboy
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Since people are getting deep here, let me throw out some observation's I've had:

Each episode is a commentary on ideals versus reality of some topic.

Episode 1 is love and companionship
Episode 2 is art and purity
Episode 3 will be about effort (not a spoiler: you can find this info in the Japanese lead in)

Furthermore, the names of each of the clubs signify these themes:

"Cupid"
"Misogi" -> The act of purification underneath running water... in english Ablution
"Soleil" -> French for "sun"... don't stare into it

Episode 1 is a struggle between one's urge for love and one's reason that love is nothing but a human weakness to be overcome
Episode 2 is a struggle between being true to one's personal art and making art into something that other's can enjoy
Episode 3 is a struggle between something I can't really tell you about yet, look forward to it

Also, if you think carefully, you'll see that the choice that's made the next episode is always a reaction to the choice made in the previous one.
First he goes from the tennis circle where cliques ruled to a movie circle which specifically advertised its comradery "Let's make movies _together_!" they said.
Then after experiencing a complete lack of purity in the movie circle, he joins a cycling circle that's all about the ideal.
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Old 2010-05-03, 11:16   Link #89
physics223
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That's nice insight, Quarkboy. Have you read the novel?
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Old 2010-05-03, 11:32   Link #90
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That's nice insight, Quarkboy. Have you read the novel?
I wish I had that kind of time... I did buy it a day after I knew I'd be translating the series (which was about ~2.5 weeks before episode 1 aired) but I only managed to read the first 20 pages or so.

Honestly reading novels takes me (and any non-native Japanese reader) a ton of time, especially since my kanji reading skills aren't good enough. I can only read ~1300 kanji on sight, and a full blown novel like this can easily use vocab I've never seen before.
Sure I could sit there with a dictionary and piece through it with some patience, or just skim over the words I'm not sure of, but it's time consuming without really that much benefit. It'd take me probably ~20 hours or so to read the whole 400 page novel.

The show is clearly based on the novel but presented very differently. As for factual questions I have some Japanese friends who _have_ read the novel to ask factual questions if I think it's needed. I'm not so convinced that reading it would really help my translation all that much in the end.

For example, I didn't know who the "shisho" that Ozu was supposedly visiting in episode 1 was and wasn't sure translating it as "master" was appropriate, so I double checked who it was referring to (It was referring to Higuchi) with them.
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Old 2010-05-03, 11:52   Link #91
Kaoru Chujo
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To me, Ozu seems like a demon (oni) in nature as well as appearance. I feel as if the scapegoat aspect is quite minor, more an illusion he fosters than anything. He is really Watashi's tempter and enabler: he is the one who had the idea of the film against the director, and the one who did most of the shooting -- then asked not to be credited.

Watashi is a weak everyman, or at least a certain kind of everyman, one suited to a four-and-a-half-tatami room near KyouDai. The portrayal of that urban student hovel setting -- especially in the OP -- is so vivid. I've been there -- although not in Kyoto.

I was thrilled that there really was development in ep2: not only did he actually do something, negative as it was, but he came a bit closer to Akashi, as well. Or vice-versa, perhaps. I liked the minor bits of memory leaking over from the first iteration. Progress is possible.

I admired the scene where Watashi met the director late at night on the street: the palanquin and slaves briefly revealed as a normal group of drunken students.
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Old 2010-05-03, 11:58   Link #92
physics223
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That's also plausible but despite its art the series has never appeared to me as surrealist, although it may very well be that (I mean, aside from the reversal of time).
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Old 2010-05-03, 15:44   Link #93
Joojoobees
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Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
I admired the scene where Watashi met the director late at night on the street: the palanquin and slaves briefly revealed as a normal group of drunken students.
That was very nicely handled. It gave both the subjective experience of Watashi, and an objective reference so we could understand just how accurate, but off Watashi's perceptions were.
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Old 2010-05-03, 17:16   Link #94
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So, am I the only one thinking there's possibility Ozu doesn't exist after watching the second episode? It seems odd that Ozu happened to join the same club as Watashi once again, and he appeared out of nowhere right when Watashi started to lose his place in the club and resent other people, Jougasaki in particular here. That's exactly the same situation as in the first episode. And Ozu, once again, was the one fueling his desires for "revenge". Ozu is definitely a scapegoat... but maybe one he created himself. Has it crossed anyone else's mind? Now that I think about it, Akashi was also in a different club in the first episode, so I might be looking too much into it. I'll have to see if the same thing happens in the next episode.

Anyway, really enjoyed episode 2. I'm glad the time rewind plot device is used the right way. And Akashi is love.
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Old 2010-05-03, 18:44   Link #95
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Quarkboy, serious question: Who picked the title "Tatami Galaxy"?
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Old 2010-05-03, 22:46   Link #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneizel View Post
Quarkboy, serious question: Who picked the title "Tatami Galaxy"?
The Production Committee debated the english title for quite a while.

Not sure which particular individual came up with that name, however. But in my opinion it's a very good alternate title. It doesn't seem like it after the first episode maybe but once people see how the series is structured it makes a lot of sense.

Just think of it as an alternate title instead of a translation of "Yojouhan" and it's fine.
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Old 2010-05-03, 22:57   Link #97
physics223
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Well, the literal translation of Yojouhan seems unwieldy: doesn't it roughly translate to A 4.5 Tatami Myth Compendium?

The Tatami Galaxy sounds simpler, more direct, and yet still quite representative of the series, as we've discussed.
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Old 2010-05-04, 16:22   Link #98
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Just watch the second episode. Definitely did not expect that. This whole reset thing might not work for me, though...

But I'm still interested. Glad the speed of the narration reduced significantly. Hope it stays that way.
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Old 2010-05-04, 16:34   Link #99
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I love the way the end of each episode suddenly segues into the ED after the 'rewind.' (The clockwork images remind me of something like Princess Tutu, I'm waiting for Drosselmeyer to show up! )
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Old 2010-05-04, 17:46   Link #100
physics223
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I love the way the end of each episode suddenly segues into the ED after the 'rewind.' (The clockwork images remind me of something like Princess Tutu, I'm waiting for Drosselmeyer to show up! )
Quite. All the better because the ED IMO is great. Ever since I discovered Yakushimaru Etsuko I've been quite her fan: her work in Souteiseiriron features her cool voice, and it helps that I also love Venus to Jesus as well as Kamisama no Iutoori. I think Kamisama no Iutoori is better, though.
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