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Old 2010-05-03, 11:02   Link #101
night_sentinel
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Differing Point of View

I think that Keroko-san and others raises a good point. I don't think that the SSS and Tenshi would ally with each other so easily. Most of it stems from how I believe their point of view on the whole war is. So here is my thoughts of how the SSS see Tenshi and how Tenshi see them.

SSS POV

Tenshi is their enemy number 1. For Yuri she is the closest thing to God in this world or perhaps in gaming terms that one boss that keeps them from advancing to the next part of their quest. Technically speaking, before this episode for me the SSS whole point of existence is beat Tenshi at something and hope something will happen. I believe that Yuri and by extent the SSS battlefront did not plan on what will happen if Tenshi is beaten...

And who can blame them, Tenshi I think gives the appearance of someone that is invincible and they are painfully aware that they can't truly beat her so they'll take any victory that they can get. Tenshi also doesn't display any emotions or reactions to their antics which may irritate them a bit since it gives an impression that they are unimportant. Look at Hinata in the baseball game, he wished that Tenshi at least said something or threatened them. They may subconsciously want some acknowledgment from Tenshi which is one of the reason that they pester her so much.

Beside that, judging from what their previous reaction to Tenshi they do not believe that Tenshi can be beaten or else what happened like Tenshi losing her position is just a minor setback and Tenshi will still be their main enemy or at least remain in an antagonistic role.

In summary, even with the subsequent revelation that it seems only 2 members have yet realized the SSS can't easily buddy-buddy with Tenshi because to most of them the fight with Tenshi is on a personal level. For most of the SSS, Tenshi is seen as the Worthy Opponent, Rival, or even the Big Bad. In fact, I would even dare say that until now, Tenshi just by existing and doing her job gave the SSS battlefront meaning - giving vindication to their belief and most importantly a clear opponent to struggle against with.

Tenshi POV

On the other hand, I believe that Tenshi's view on the battlefront could not be more opposite. Tenshi's fight on the SSS battlefront is on an impersonal basis - I'm just doing my job kind of way. She will only stop the SSS battlefront if they are breaking the rules and even then she shows a great amount of leniency. In fact, judging from the previous episode, the SSS battlefront does more damage to themselves than Tenshi ever did to them.

Point of View between SSS and Tenshi on what really happened:

PS: Ordinary text denote what the SSS believed happened and italics denote what happened in Tenshi pov.
PPS: Most of this is heavily relying on conjuncture which is not solid fact feel free to contest anything written here.

Episode 1 - Tenshi walks toward them presumably to stop them, SSS battlefront brings the big guns and Tenshi activates force field and just stand there. SSS battlefront waste ridiculous amount of ammo and managed to lift the ticket from NPC.
Result: Operation success for the battlefront.
(Tenshi gives a mandatory show of effort to stop the battlefront since they are breaking the rules. SSS battlefront begins to shoot at her, Tenshi doesn't mind and just stand there, they are wasting ammo on her that they can use to attack the other students. The SSS lifts the ticket from the NPC but I don't think Tenshi really minds that, they give great morale to the student body in exchange for meal tickets that the students can pick outside if they're hungry. I really don't think that Tenshi cares if this operation succeeds heck she doesn't even try to stop it beyond showing up.
Result: Tenshi made them waste ammo which they can use to disrupt school and give student body free concerts.

Episode 2
- SSS tries to replenish their ammo thus, they go to guild. They get caught on their own trap and destroy their own guild in the process.
Result : Eerr... SSS battlefront success because they managed to escape and can build anew.
Tenshi discovers the location of the new guild. She shows up to stop the creation of dangerous firearms. The 2 remaining battlefront members start shooting at her she puts up a forcefield. One goes to hand to hand combat and she responds in kind. The SSS decides to blow up the guild and cause Tenshi to fall to a fiery inferno. That has to hurt. Tenshi seems to not hold a grudge for that so its okay
Result: Tenshi managed to destroy guild even if it is temporary, the production of dangerous weapon at least slowed down.

Episode 3
- SSS holds an announced concert without official permission as a distraction while they infiltrate Tenshi's room. SSS finds some earthshaking revelation and lose their vocal lead.
Result: The operation is a success but they have heavy loses in Iwasawa-san and their mission statement has been delivered a massive blow.

Tenshi is supposed to take off the poster for the unauthorized concert but decided against it. Suppose to stop the GirlDeMo concert but, haven't done anything to stop it while she was there, instead the teachers stop it. Decided to listen to Iwasawa's final ballad before she disappeared. Heck, Tenshi haven't done a single thing in this episode to stop SSS. Most of her actions here are halfhearted which makes me wonder about her motivations?
Result: I have no idea... maybe Iwasawa-san's disappearance?

Episode 4 - SSS decides to illegally enter a baseball tournament. They were doing so well until they were taken out by the Student Council team. Hinata is conveniently placed on the exact same position that will make him solve his regret. But, thanks to the bakaness of his teammate is saved from it.
Tenshi assembled a baseball team to take out the SSS illegally entered team. and acts a coach to them. Easily defeats the good SSS team but struggled against the competent idiots. Either the Hinata team is really that good or Tenshi has another agenda considering that Hinata is placed on the same exact position that may have fulfilled him somehow.
Result: Tenshi's team managed to beat the illegal team, but Hinata did not dissipate?

So, in conclusion from looking at Tenshi's pov, I don't think that Tenshi even considered the SSS battlefront as an enemy, heck she might even be helping them in her own way. Most of what we know of Tenshi is still shrouded in mystery even if Episode 5 showed many interesting facts about her.
Of course, even if Tenshi does not have a motivation to refuse to ally to the SSS meant that Tenshi would agree to the alliance. We must remember that Tenshi is portrayed as someone that is on more on the Lawful Good alignment and if you consider it the SSS battlefront is breaking the rules. Beside this, we don't know what is the relationship of Naoto and Kanade, maybe they could be friends for all we know. At the very least they are coworkers being on the student council together.

In short, if the SSS and Tenshi ever permanently make an alliance together. A lot of paradigm shifting would be needed. It won't be happening soon unless Naoto is really that bad...
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Old 2010-05-03, 11:12   Link #102
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by night_sentinel View Post

Episode 3
- SSS holds an announced concert without official permission as a distraction while they infiltrate Tenshi's room. SSS finds some earthshaking revelation and lose their vocal lead.
Result: The operation is a success but they have heavy loses in Iwasawa-san and their mission statement has been delivered a massive blow.

Tenshi is supposed to take off the poster for the unauthorized concert but decided against it. Suppose to stop the GirlDeMo concert but, haven't done anything to stop it while she was there, instead the teachers stop it. Decided to listen to Iwasawa's final ballad before she disappeared. Heck, Tenshi haven't done a single thing in this episode to stop SSS. Most of her actions here are halfhearted which makes me wonder about her motivations?
Result: I have no idea... maybe Iwasawa-san's disappearance?
From what we know at this moment, episode 3 was a massive victory for Tenshi. Not only did the loss of Iwasawa put a temporary pause one the SSS's operations until they can find a replacement, if Tenshi's goal really is to help the students until they are ready to return to the cycle of life, then letting things proceed as they did just helped one of the SSS members, who oppose their reincarnation, do just that.

So it's a triple success: Helped student attain peace, student was also SSS member and still attained peace, hampered SSS disruptive actions.

Since the SSS are like the 'problem children' of a school, to help one of those along their path and see them leave with a smile is quite possibly even more satisfying than seeing a regular one leave.
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Old 2010-05-03, 19:46   Link #103
Traece
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I think the main issue with Tenshi-related theories is that everybody assumes that Tenshi has this sort of omnipotence, or at least some knowledge of what will happen and how things will happen, and why. I honestly just don't agree with theories related to Tenshi being vastly more knowledgeable than the members of the SSS. The idea that she's no different than the SSS members is better in my mind. She might know a little more about the afterlife than all the others, but I don't know if I agree that she knows so much more than them that she can tell when someone is about to ascend from the afterlife, or anything to that effect.
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Old 2010-05-03, 21:53   Link #104
descent87
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I'm all about her being just another human who did what she had to do, the only thing I am a bit mystified by is how quickly she seems to heal relative to the other students and how she was able to react so fast as to deflect bullets with Hand Sonice, those two things are a bit baffling.
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Old 2010-05-03, 23:17   Link #105
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She created GN particles from dust.[/jk]
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Old 2010-05-04, 02:56   Link #106
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece View Post
I think the main issue with Tenshi-related theories is that everybody assumes that Tenshi has this sort of omnipotence, or at least some knowledge of what will happen and how things will happen, and why. I honestly just don't agree with theories related to Tenshi being vastly more knowledgeable than the members of the SSS. The idea that she's no different than the SSS members is better in my mind. She might know a little more about the afterlife than all the others, but I don't know if I agree that she knows so much more than them that she can tell when someone is about to ascend from the afterlife, or anything to that effect.
Omnipotent? Not at all, and the whole test-swapping incident pretty much proves she isn't omnipotent.

Being able to tell when someone is abut to ascend, however, is something that's still very possible. After all, Otonashi could see Hinata was about to ascend and he hasn't been in this world nearly as long as Tenshi.
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Old 2010-05-04, 05:23   Link #107
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I dont think that Tenshi is able to tell when someone is about to ascend or not.
Think about it were she able to tell, then she would know about the deathstories from everyone and with that knowledge she could "trap" them in situations to regain their missing pieces of memories and ascend after that.
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Old 2010-05-04, 06:10   Link #108
Keroko
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Why would she have to know about the death stories? All she has to see is a look of happiness and realization.
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Old 2010-05-04, 18:41   Link #109
alu546
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Originally Posted by Konakaga View Post
I disagree, it's spoiler that basically gives away she's human if you have it in the title of the thread, where else people just starting the series wouldn't know this for sure.
actually not arguing about her name, but I dont see how Yuri proved anything. Her logic is that "angels have no emotions" but that hasnt been established by anything other than her thinking that. She also knew that she had a name, but wasnt sure even then, and i am not either.

I mean, her being human is very much a possibility, but im just pointing out that so far in the story there isnt anything established by anyone or thing that knows to cement it.

They could just ask her I guess, unless they said she wont answer and i forgot.

anywho, I see this story shifting to her before the end, especiallly if she really is human. Its a feeling, as well as there being alot to tell.
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Old 2010-05-05, 09:54   Link #110
Raiza Sunozaki
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It seemed like Kanade was near omnipotent at the start of the series (with lack of pain, abilities to evade attacks and respond with powerful counters), and I'm kind of hoping that with her demotion, she doesn't lose her powers. It would indicate that her powers aren't designed for her role as school council principal, that her character is the reason she is so powerful.
I still feel that she's incredibly lonely, as she probably gets tired of talking to NPCs day after day. Her familiarity with the school and rank of school president indicates she's been here a long time, at least longer than Yuri. Over time, she must get lonely, seeing all the unique people arrive, fall into a normal lifestyle, become satisfied and leave.
As much of a group of bullies the SSS can be to be, they are a band of very unique people, who the majority of will probably remain for a long time if they have to continue their rebellion. Kanade probably realizes this, and so she acts the "villain" so that they can remain longer, so that she can avoid the loneliness of this world.

Still, I find her utterly adorable. Though, did anyone else not notice how short she was until episode five had her standing right beside Otonashi?
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Old 2010-05-05, 11:23   Link #111
risingstar3110
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Originally Posted by Raiza Sunozaki View Post
It seemed like Kanade was near omnipotent at the start of the series (with lack of pain, abilities to evade attacks and respond with powerful counters), and I'm kind of hoping that with her demotion, she doesn't lose her powers. It would indicate that her powers aren't designed for her role as school council principal, that her character is the reason she is so powerful.
I still feel that she's incredibly lonely, as she probably gets tired of talking to NPCs day after day. Her familiarity with the school and rank of school president indicates she's been here a long time, at least longer than Yuri. Over time, she must get lonely, seeing all the unique people arrive, fall into a normal lifestyle, become satisfied and leave.
As much of a group of bullies the SSS can be to be, they are a band of very unique people, who the majority of will probably remain for a long time if they have to continue their rebellion. Kanade probably realizes this, and so she acts the "villain" so that they can remain longer, so that she can avoid the loneliness of this world.

Still, I find her utterly adorable. Though, did anyone else not notice how short she was until episode five had her standing right beside Otonashi?
She is actually taller. She redesigned her body shape to dodge bullets easier previous to "Distortion" being developed Ok i lied, but it will be kind of cool if so...

Well i actually like your idea. You know that theory about immortal being would eventually lose emotions due to all the experiences they got in their life(in 3x3 eyes mostly, but other works as well).

Maybe Kanade has been living in this place for so long that's why it's harder for her to feel angry, embarrassed, happy, sad since she experienced all those crazy things so many times already? Maybe now she's dying for something different, a new experience that she have never faced before perhaps
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Old 2010-05-06, 11:18   Link #112
Marina2
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I watched ep.1-5 again and tried to interpret the events in Tenshi point of view.

This is what I got. (It's more for fun but.... who know?? it may be true)

Spoiler for ep.1:


Spoiler for ep.2:


Spoiler for Ep.3:


Spoiler for ep.4:



Spoiler for ep.5:

Last edited by Marina2; 2010-05-06 at 12:06.
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Old 2010-05-06, 11:59   Link #113
ninryu
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Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
I watched ep.1-5 again and tried to interpret the events in tenshi point of view.

This is what I got. (It's more for fun but.... who know?? it may be true)

Spoiler for ep.1:


Spoiler for ep.2:


Spoiler for Ep.3:


Spoiler for ep.4:



Spoiler for ep.5:
ouch. hard time on Kanade. T_T
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Old 2010-05-07, 08:31   Link #114
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If there was like a moe meter for anime characters, I think it would have gone off the scale for Tenshi in episode 5
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Old 2010-05-07, 17:41   Link #115
Seitsuki
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;_; poor Kanade
*bakes some cookies*
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Old 2010-05-07, 19:28   Link #116
kk2extreme
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how did she died?
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Old 2010-05-07, 21:24   Link #117
Himeji
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Originally Posted by Zeroryoko1974 View Post
If there was like a moe meter for anime characters, I think it would have gone off the scale for Tenshi in episode 5
What's so moe about a girl eating super-spicy Mapu Tofu?
The end of the episode was set to evoke a bit of pity for Angel, but I don't see that much moe there.
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Old 2010-05-07, 21:40   Link #118
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What's so moe about a girl eating super-spicy Mapu Tofu?
The end of the episode was set to evoke a bit of pity for Angel, but I don't see that much moe there.
"Moe" is a quality that is in the eye of the beholder ussually. Though while Tenshi somewhat moe, I'd agree with you about eating it.
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Old 2010-05-08, 04:40   Link #119
Joachim
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after seeing ep 6, i would say kanade kinda killed her emotion because her friend was disappearing one by one that she fed up with all of that and don't bother in making friends/becoming close to anyone again.

But why hasn't she disappear? she is a model student, go to school, follow the school life obediently, obey the school rule, and hasn't disappear yet, so uh.. whats going on there
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Old 2010-05-08, 05:43   Link #120
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after seeing ep 6, i would say kanade kinda killed her emotion because her friend was disappearing one by one that she fed up with all of that and don't bother in making friends/becoming close to anyone again.

But why hasn't she disappear? she is a model student, go to school, follow the school life obediently, obey the school rule, and hasn't disappear yet, so uh.. whats going on there
If going to school is just a way to have you settle down and forget your troubles, it isn't working for her as she may have been doing that in the past life and was already lonely. Seeing friends who do that same but disappear would cause her to be sad before she is healed by friendship as that takes time. From then on it's a self feeding cycle. She is always lonely and thus can't ascend.
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