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Old 2010-05-06, 01:37   Link #7081
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
I always wonder about this but i have read reports that the Labour can come in 3rd on pop vote but still get more members of commons then the party with the 2nd most pop vote?

How does that actually work?
Spoiler for tl;dr:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
So Gerrymander wasn't invented in the US then.
Spoiler for tl;dr once again:
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Old 2010-05-06, 02:42   Link #7082
Joojoobees
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I live in one of them. House Banking Chairman Barney Frank's district extends from here in the liberal Boston suburbs along a narrow corridor to the long-time coastal Democratic bastions of New Bedford and Fall River. Once home to proud industries like fishing and needlework that employed generations of immigrants, these communities now struggle to find a place for themselves in the 21st century.
Hey, I walk over to the 4th district every day to do my grocery shopping! I live on the other side of the Charles River, though, in Ed Markey's district. I guess that makes us neighbors.

Warning: Bitch session ahead.
Spoiler for Thoughts on pointlessness of representative democracy:
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Old 2010-05-06, 05:43   Link #7083
MrTerrorist
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A Ku Klux Klan leader has pleaded guilty to murdering a woman recruit, a day after an initiation rite in the US state of Louisiana in 2008.
One question. Is that silk their using?
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Old 2010-05-06, 10:24   Link #7084
SaintessHeart
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Why is KKK still legal in US?
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Old 2010-05-06, 10:42   Link #7085
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Why is KKK still legal in US?
There's nothing illegal in being a Klan member or advocating Klan ideas. Acting on those beliefs and engaging in illegal acts is another story. In those cases charges can be brought against the individuals involved. The Klan has been forced to pay substantial damages in civil suits as well.

It's the American way. We let the hate groups spout whatever they want and give them consitutional protections as well. I rather like that about my country. I'm of the opinion that the solution to "bad" speech is more speech, not repression.
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Old 2010-05-06, 10:46   Link #7086
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
There's nothing illegal in being a Klan member or advocating Klan ideas. Acting on those beliefs and engaging in illegal acts is another story. In those cases charges can be brought against the individuals involved. The Klan has been forced to pay substantial damages in civil suits as well.

It's the American way. We let the hate groups spout whatever they want and give them consitutional protections as well. I rather like that about my country. I'm of the opinion that the solution to "bad" speech is more speech, not repression.
Is it like - as long as you don't do anything against any of the 4 freedoms, you can say whatever you want?
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-05-06, 10:59   Link #7087
ChainLegacy
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Uh, yeah. That's the whole 'freedom of speech' thing Americans are always talking about. Though it doesn't always work that way in practice.
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Old 2010-05-06, 11:15   Link #7088
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Why is KKK still legal in US?
It may not have occurred to you before, but Singapore also does not in principle ban groups that are considered cults, or borderline heretical, by others. The freedom of religion, speech, assembly and association is enshrined in the Constitution.

The caveat, however, is that such freedoms cannot be used to offend public order, public health or morality. Of course, they must not be seditious either.

Which leads naturally to quite a fair bit of interpretation. But such grey areas are not unique to Singapore's Constitution. Laws exist to serve a community. It just so happens that this country's laws are tilted more towards society ("the greater good") than to individuals.
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Old 2010-05-06, 11:29   Link #7089
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
Uh, yeah. That's the whole 'freedom of speech' thing Americans are always talking about. Though it doesn't always work that way in practice.
freedom of speech works perfectly well if you happen to be a KKK member, since minor stuff like preaching the racial supremacy of the white race is all fine and dandy in the good old US of A

its only when you do something REALLY evil - like showing Muhammad on southpark - that freedom of speech seems to run out.
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Old 2010-05-06, 11:34   Link #7090
ChainLegacy
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Yup, there are definitely some censoring issues here, just one instance of the paradoxical law enforcement in this country. Though I have to say, it seems to have gotten better in recent years. I think radio talk shows are currently the area where censoring is most prominent, just from what I know about Don Imus or Howard Stern.
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Old 2010-05-06, 12:45   Link #7091
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
freedom of speech works perfectly well if you happen to be a KKK member, since minor stuff like preaching the racial supremacy of the white race is all fine and dandy in the good old US of A

its only when you do something REALLY evil - like showing Muhammad on southpark - that freedom of speech seems to run out.
That's a network doing the censoring, not the government. Just because people have a right to say what they want does not mean a private media company has to show it. Please show one instance of someone in the US being arrested and charged with showing a depiction of Muhammad. Otherwise it is not a free speech issue, it's a network being overly sensitive issue. I agree that it should not have been censored, but you are grossly misrepresenting the situation.
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Old 2010-05-06, 12:56   Link #7092
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
freedom of speech works perfectly well if you happen to be a KKK member, since minor stuff like preaching the racial supremacy of the white race is all fine and dandy in the good old US of A

its only when you do something REALLY evil - like showing Muhammad on southpark - that freedom of speech seems to run out.
Well... don't confuse official "freedom of speech" with threats from zealots resulting in self-censorship. Two different things.

Frankly, "Freedom of Speech" encourages the clowns and morons to make public fools of themselves so everyone else can more easily "spot the loony" (like the KKK).

The Southpark thing was basically a corporate coward move and last I checked, threatening to kill someone is still actionable legally in the US. That needs to be dumped on the zealots (be they Christian, Muslim, whatever) like a ton of bricks.
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Old 2010-05-06, 12:59   Link #7093
Ascaloth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Frankly, "Freedom of Speech" encourages the clowns and morons to make public fools of themselves so everyone else can more easily "spot the loony" (like the KKK).
Yes, but what happens when "the loony" is like pretty much all the Southern parts of the United States (aka Tea Party, intelligent design etc. etc.)?

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Old 2010-05-06, 13:19   Link #7094
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Yes, but what happens when "the loony" is like pretty much all the Southern parts of the United States (aka Tea Party, intelligent design etc. etc.)?

Lately, it informs me that perhaps I'd like to retire elsewhere because I'm rather pessimistic about the long-term prospects of this place anymore.

But the US is a really big place. Too easy to schedule travel plans that don't include hyperbolic infestations of loony so I don't encounter them very often.
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Old 2010-05-06, 13:28   Link #7095
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
It may not have occurred to you before, but Singapore also does not in principle ban groups that are considered cults, or borderline heretical, by others. The freedom of religion, speech, assembly and association is enshrined in the Constitution.

The caveat, however, is that such freedoms cannot be used to offend public order, public health or morality. Of course, they must not be seditious either.

Which leads naturally to quite a fair bit of interpretation. But such grey areas are not unique to Singapore's Constitution. Laws exist to serve a community. It just so happens that this country's laws are tilted more towards society ("the greater good") than to individuals.
The problem with "offend public order" is a little difficult to enforce......if any of you have realised (or is still in school), the local megachurches' minions can be EXTREMELY annoying that I wonder how did I keep my facade of "no thank you" instead of launching into an argument with them. In fact, their influence have pretty much gained themselves the name of being a "cult" here.

I believe you have been old enough to know about Operation Spectrum, in which 22 people are arrested for "trying to subvert the Singapore Government and create a Marxist State". I am not surprised if the ISD decided to invite them over to a coffee session to discuss the future of the megacorp country.

Over at US, they are much more liberal, but I can't seem to understand why they would allow a racist group to run wild.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Yes, but what happens when "the loony" is like pretty much all the Southern parts of the United States (aka Tea Party, intelligent design etc. etc.)?

Don't talk about intelligent design lol! I became part of a really heated class discussion back then when it was on Time Magazine...though I became really evil by inducing an "argumentum ad nauseam" by enforcing an argument which became the rule of the floor : replacing the word "god" with "omnipotent entity of ambiguous existence" w.r.t to the non-christian believers in the class, which eventually shortened became "entity", and my religiously inclined classmates gave up because they had problem trying not to make the word sound like a synonym to mammary glands.

Back on topic, it seems like the symbol of freedom of what U.S is became the symbol of "doing whatever one wants with no regards or due respect to others".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Lately, it informs me that perhaps I'd like to retire elsewhere because I'm rather pessimistic about the long-term prospects of this place anymore.

But the US is a really big place. Too easy to schedule travel plans that don't include hyperbolic infestations of loony so I don't encounter them very often.
You could come over here. I am not surprised if A-Star starts fapping at your CV because you worked with NASA.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-05-06, 13:44   Link #7096
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Back on topic, it seems like the symbol of freedom of what U.S is became the symbol of "doing whatever one wants with no regards or due respect to others".
While America has a radically individualist culture when viewed from societies with more collectivist tendencies like much of Asia and Europe, we also have three hundred years of laws and legal argument designed to manage as best we can the results of excessive individualism.

The caveat that TRL mentioned, "that such freedoms cannot be used to offend public order, public health or morality, [or be] seditious" is fundamentally at odds with the First Amendment to our Constitution, namely that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." While First Amendment absolutists (I'm pretty close to one) might argue that "no law" means just that, historically the Court has been faced with determining when it might excuse limitations on speech on other grounds. The jurisprudence here spans centuries and an dizzying array of subjects.
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Old 2010-05-06, 14:05   Link #7097
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
While America has a radically individualist culture when viewed from societies with more collectivist tendencies like much of Asia and Europe, we also have three hundred years of laws and legal argument designed to manage as best we can the results of excessive individualism.

The caveat that TRL mentioned, "that such freedoms cannot be used to offend public order, public health or morality, [or be] seditious" is fundamentally at odds with the First Amendment to our Constitution, namely that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." While First Amendment absolutists (I'm pretty close to one) might argue that "no law" means just that, historically the Court has been faced with determining when it might excuse limitations on speech on other grounds. The jurisprudence here spans centuries and an dizzying array of subjects.
The wingnut of this Amendment is the "peaceably assemble", because any assembly can be counted as peaceful so long as there is no intention of violence, wherefore a place to subliminally and subtly spread instructions to partake in activities contrary to state ideals. Over here, any assembly will require approval from the local authorities (other than the ones lead by the ruling parties, TRL, remember a certain protest lead by one of the politicians? ), even a so-called oration corner. I am not exactly sure about public assemblies in US, so I might need someone to correct me should I go wrong in my perception.

Anyway, the problem with law often lies in the interpretation of its words. A single law can have so many loopholes, in this case it concerns the freedom of speech (which includes whichever kind of article to spread an idea) which can indirectly trigger thought, supposedly being free too. In short, one can spread his/her idea, but there isn't exactly a caveat dictating the exact content type influencing for or otherwise to the state ideals. Besides, content can be written so subtly that views can differ so much, then again, leading to the multiple interpretations of the First Amendment.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-05-06, 15:51   Link #7098
Fahd
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Seeing as we don't have a UK general election thread, I figured I'd post this here:

Spoiler for Election Results at 21:40:


Spoiler for Election Results at 23:00:


Spoiler for Election Results at 00:00:


Spoiler for Election Results at 01:00:


Spoiler for Election Results at 02:00:


Spoiler for Election Results at 03:00:


Spoiler for Election Results at 04:00:


Spoiler for Election Results at 05:00:


Spoiler for Election Results at 06:00:


Spoiler for Election Results at 07:00:


I'll probably throw in a new image every hour, although I'll edit this post so as not to spam . Election results will be from the BBC.

Last edited by Fahd; 2010-05-07 at 01:01.
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Old 2010-05-06, 16:08   Link #7099
ChainLegacy
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Isn't part of the censoring issue government-based, though, by way of the FCC? Granted, I'm really only operating on hearsay since the subject never caught my interest.
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Old 2010-05-06, 16:13   Link #7100
Mystique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahd View Post
Seeing as we don't have a UK general election thread, I figured I'd post this here:

Spoiler for Election Results at 21:40:


I'll probably throw in a new image every hour, although I'll edit this post so as not to spam . Election results will be from the BBC.
Thanks for that, was tempted to make a thread myself, even if Asuki feels like there're 85% american members on here, the UK election is also approaching some new moments in history in terms of results and voting.

The pokemon thing is cute and all, wonder who creates these
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