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Old 2010-05-06, 00:21   Link #2701
maximilianjenus
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Old 2010-05-08, 02:21   Link #2702
Judoh
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Anybody else notice the lack of Gohda in episode 5? It's not like he dies anywhere. We don't see much of him. And he's really the only person besides Battler who I think would defend Natsuhi since he's faithful to her. Yet when she's accused of murder we don't hear one peep from him. I think that's weird. What the heck was he doing the whole time this was going on?
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Old 2010-05-08, 13:10   Link #2703
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Anybody else notice the lack of Gohda in episode 5? It's not like he dies anywhere. We don't see much of him. And he's really the only person besides Battler who I think would defend Natsuhi since he's faithful to her. Yet when she's accused of murder we don't hear one peep from him. I think that's weird. What the heck was he doing the whole time this was going on?
He was sent to go burn Kinzo's body, but tripped while carrying him down the stairs and spent most of the episode pinned under Kinzo in the foyer. He called out for help but nobody cared because it's Gohda.
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Old 2010-05-08, 19:01   Link #2704
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I think the only reason Gohda and anyone else for that matter didn't speak up for Natsuhi was because of Erika's overwhelming evidences that at the time seemed so concrete and certain that everyone readily believed without a doubt. Of course that probably changed when Battler presented his countercase but we don't know that for sure since the game was stopped at that point my the game master.
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Old 2010-05-08, 19:27   Link #2705
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On a serious note, yes, I think you're correct. Gohda is easily cowed by people; the overwhelming evidence against Natsuhi would assuredly have turned him against her, no matter his loyalty before that point. Gohda always freaks out over the prospect of murders, I doubt even being grateful to Natsuhi is going to override the fear of her if he thinks she's a "proven" murderer.
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Old 2010-05-10, 10:54   Link #2706
pikablu
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Here's a little theory for Episode 3 and 5 (both which I don't think were done by the 'real' Beatrice).

Spoiler for Episode 3:


Q-Was the parlour locked? Or else how did George get in?

Now for Epi 5:
Spoiler for Episode 5:

Last edited by pikablu; 2010-05-10 at 11:52.
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Old 2010-05-10, 13:40   Link #2707
Judoh
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@pikablu

The parlor in particular is a special room at that point. Shannon was the first person they discovered and she was discovered by breaking a window. The strange thing is that the keys that the red said were found ( in episode 4) were the servants keys (there might have been master keys in envelopes too, but Virgilia never said there were in here analysis in episode 3). They took Shannon's key and went to the next room and found Kumasawa, then Gohda, then Genji, and so on. Once you get to Kanon's closed room though the key in his envelope opens the parlor. So if George had the key from the chapel (wow what a coincidence he has to go the chapel to unlock a room again...) He could unlock the door to the parlor without going through the broken window, but that's assuming the parents left the parlor locked, and that they didn't take Kanon's key. And the only reason I would want to theorize George did that is to make it possible for him to write 07151129 on the wall.

Last edited by Judoh; 2010-05-10 at 13:58.
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Old 2010-05-18, 09:20   Link #2708
Raiza Sunozaki
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
@pikablu

The parlor in particular is a special room at that point. Shannon was the first person they discovered and she was discovered by breaking a window. The strange thing is that the keys that the red said were found ( in episode 4) were the servants keys (there might have been master keys in envelopes too, but Virgilia never said there were in here analysis in episode 3). They took Shannon's key and went to the next room and found Kumasawa, then Gohda, then Genji, and so on. Once you get to Kanon's closed room though the key in his envelope opens the parlor. So if George had the key from the chapel (wow what a coincidence he has to go the chapel to unlock a room again...) He could unlock the door to the parlor without going through the broken window, but that's assuming the parents left the parlor locked, and that they didn't take Kanon's key. And the only reason I would want to theorize George did that is to make it possible for him to write 07151129 on the wall.
Judoh, I think by servant keys, they meant the master keys. As I remember, there were two keys in the envelopes: the master key of that servant, and the key to another part of the six-room closed room. The only exception was Kinzo's envelope, since he didn't possess a master key.
So, George is the most likely to write 07151129? Would this mean that he's connected to the deposit boxes? If so, that's another suspicious point for George.
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Old 2010-05-18, 12:58   Link #2709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Anybody else notice the lack of Gohda in episode 5? It's not like he dies anywhere. We don't see much of him. And he's really the only person besides Battler who I think would defend Natsuhi since he's faithful to her. Yet when she's accused of murder we don't hear one peep from him. I think that's weird. What the heck was he doing the whole time this was going on?
I actually mentioned that back when the OP was originally released. He appears only briefly at 1:21. Blink and you'll miss him.
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Old 2010-05-18, 13:14   Link #2710
Judoh
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Originally Posted by Raiza Sunozaki View Post
Judoh, I think by servant keys, they meant the master keys. As I remember, there were two keys in the envelopes: the master key of that servant, and the key to another part of the six-room closed room. The only exception was Kinzo's envelope, since he didn't possess a master key.
So, George is the most likely to write 07151129? Would this mean that he's connected to the deposit boxes? If so, that's another suspicious point for George.
No the keys that were in the envelopes were ones related to the rooms. I think there might have been master keys too, but they never specifically say that anywhere so they could just have it in their pocket and it would have the same affect. Anyway before they found Shannon the adults discovered that the servants keys related to the rooms were missing from the key box. The keys kept in the key box are the regular keys for individual rooms. Virgilia described how they found a regular key in each envelope and how they unlocked each closed room with that key. If they were master keys the closed room circle wouldn't work like that because once you get one master key you can unlock 5 of the rooms without a problem. The only room a master key wouldn't unlock is the chapel.
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Old 2010-05-18, 16:46   Link #2711
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
No the keys that were in the envelopes were ones related to the rooms. I think there might have been master keys too, but they never specifically say that anywhere so they could just have it in their pocket and it would have the same affect. Anyway before they found Shannon the adults discovered that the servants keys related to the rooms were missing from the key box. The keys kept in the key box are the regular keys for individual rooms. Virgilia described how they found a regular key in each envelope and how they unlocked each closed room with that key. If they were master keys the closed room circle wouldn't work like that because once you get one master key you can unlock 5 of the rooms without a problem. The only room a master key wouldn't unlock is the chapel.
There is a Red about the master keys

All five master keys were discovered, each in the pocket of one of the servants!

And

The individual keys ( the keys to the single rooms) were found inside envelopes alongside the corpses!

So they obtained a master key once they found Shannon corpse and there was actually no need to open the doors in that particular order.
Also that strange method of linking doesn't guarantee any killing order. Assuming the culpirt had one master key, witch he later put in a servant pocket pretending to find it, he could have locked the doors after preparing all the rooms.
Also, i don't remember the exact order they followed based on the linked rooms, can someone post it? Becouse the only reason i see to put the individual keys in envelopes (and not the master keys) is that they wanted the adults to follow a certain route, maybe to gain the time to prepare the other rooms.
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Old 2010-05-18, 17:42   Link #2712
Judoh
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Episode 3 closed room reconstruction

  • The relatives broke the window to the parlor. Shannon's corpse was found in the parlor. She had a master key in her pocket that the relatives collected. In the envelope was the key to the second floor guestroom.
  • The relatives moved to the second floor. in the Guestroom Kumusawa's corpse was discovered. She had a master key that the relatives collected. In the envelope was the key to the third floor waiting room.
  • The relatives moved to the third floor. In the waiting room Gohda's corpse was discovered. He had a master key that the relatives collected. In the envelope was the key to the second floor honored guestroom.
  • The relatives moved to the second floor. In the honored guestroom Genji's corpse was discovered. He had a master key that the relatives collected. in the envelope was the key to the underground boiler room.
  • The relatives moved to underground boiler room. In the underground boiler room Kinzo's corpse was discovered. In an envelope the key to the chapel was found.
  • The relatives moved to the chapel. Kanon's corpse was found in the chapel. He had a master key in his pocket that the relatives collected. In the envelope the key to the first floor parlor was found. With this the reconstruction of all six closed rooms is complete.

So the way it works

Shannon > Kumasawa > Gohda > Genji > Kinzo > Kanon > Shannon

EDIT: Oh I forgot to mention. In the envelope found next to Kinzo was the letter that challenged them to solve the epitaph.

Last edited by Judoh; 2010-05-18 at 18:36.
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Old 2010-05-18, 20:12   Link #2713
LyricalAura
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniesk View Post
There is a Red about the master keys

All five master keys were discovered, each in the pocket of one of the servants!

And

The individual keys ( the keys to the single rooms) were found inside envelopes alongside the corpses!

So they obtained a master key once they found Shannon corpse and there was actually no need to open the doors in that particular order.
Also that strange method of linking doesn't guarantee any killing order. Assuming the culpirt had one master key, witch he later put in a servant pocket pretending to find it, he could have locked the doors after preparing all the rooms.
Also, i don't remember the exact order they followed based on the linked rooms, can someone post it? Becouse the only reason i see to put the individual keys in envelopes (and not the master keys) is that they wanted the adults to follow a certain route, maybe to gain the time to prepare the other rooms.
All of the keys related to the closed rooms were shut up inside the closed rooms. A hypothetical murderer in the search party could not have returned the key to a servant's pocket before the room was opened, which would be a contradiction.
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Old 2010-05-18, 20:22   Link #2714
Sniesk
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Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
All of the keys related to the closed rooms were shut up inside the closed rooms. A hypothetical murderer in the search party could not have returned the key to a servant's pocket before the room was opened, which would be a contradiction.
Uhm i always tought that this is referred just to the keys of the rooms and not the master keys. Actually Battler himself proposed a theory in which the culpirt is among the search party (after that red declaration), and said it in blue. I don't know if a character can say something in Blue if that has been denied before.
Anyway i don't have any other idea about that twilight...
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Old 2010-05-18, 20:35   Link #2715
Judoh
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These are the only blue truths I'm aware of that Battler used for those murders in episode 3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler
The six linked rooms, the murders of Rosa oba-san and Maria, Dad and the rest's deaths in the hall, the murders of Krauss oji-san and Natsuhi oba-san...all of that can be explained if we suppose that Eva oba-san was the culprit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battler
The victims locked the door from the inside. One of the six was the culprit, and this person killed the other five, then pretended to be dead!!
Also I'm pretty sure Knox's rules deny all the theories Beato threw around in episode 5 even when she was told the rules.
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Old 2010-05-18, 20:46   Link #2716
Sniesk
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
These are the only blue truths I'm aware of that Battler used for those murders in episode 3.
It is in ep4 ????, Battler says right after the red by Beatrice:

The first person to discover a corpse just had to pretend to find the key and show that they'd pulled it for the pocket of the corpse

I also think that it is too simple this way (and wrong, probably) , but it is the only explanation i can come up with.
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Old 2010-05-18, 20:48   Link #2717
LyricalAura
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Originally Posted by Sniesk View Post
It is in ep4 ????, Battler says right after the red by Beatrice:

The first person to discover a corpse just had to pretend to find the key and show that they'd pulled it for the pocket of the corpse
According to Lambda, not all of Battler's blue theories were effective, which I think basically means that some of them were already denied when Battler spoke them.
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Old 2010-05-18, 20:51   Link #2718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
According to Lambda, not all of Battler's blue theories were effective, which I think basically means that some of them were already denied when Battler spoke them.
Lambdadelta also says that none of the mysteries were solved. Which means probably everyone of Battler's theories are wrong.
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Old 2010-05-18, 21:01   Link #2719
Judoh
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Lambdadelta also says that none of the mysteries were solved. Which means probably everyone of Battler's theories are wrong.
I don't recall her saying that none of them were solved. I recall her saying that a lot of the things he said were ridiculous and she denied some of his more ridiculous theories, but I think most of the theories that were wrong were you know small bombs and poison gas things we have no hints for. And Bern thought he got pretty much everything right so maybe there is something she knows that we don't.
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Old 2010-05-18, 21:04   Link #2720
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So is there any other theory about that twilight?

The only other thing i can think of, is regarding how they were killed. Beatrice cannot repeat that they all have been killed by another person. Nothing strange with that since Kinzo is already dead. But what if that also applies to some other victim? Given the strange circumstances that always surrounds Kanon death, maybe there is something wrong with his death too. I personally do not agree with the Shkannon theory, but there is no doubt that there is always something wrong with the two's deaths
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