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Old 2010-05-13, 10:30   Link #23421
Lord Jeremiah
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Can someone link em to Kaleidoscope then? P:
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Old 2010-05-16, 00:43   Link #23422
Betteroffer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzo View Post
The worstest was Kallen pregnant (lelouch is the father) and Shirley totally mad try to...I can't continue.
...Wait...Code Geass meets School Days?

I don't know if I should laugh or sob in the corner.

As for the suicide thing, Kallen's character poem suggests that she was actually seeking a form of Suicide By Cop, though more indirectly than what Suzaku was after. The lines in her poem suggest that she did not trully believe her actions in the resistence would change anything, but rather only lead to her own death, and that she didn't see anything beyond this until Zero appeared.

Perhaps "seeking" is too strong a word, but the fact that she was willingly engaging in what she believed to be dangerous and admitedly futile activities doesn't imply a terribly hopeful situation.
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Old 2010-05-16, 10:40   Link #23423
Paladinoras
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Well, she didn't have a will of her own before she met Zero, she was just following her brother's footsteps, or rather, trying to kill as many people as she possibly could who she believes to be responsible for her brother's death, i.e, every single Britannian out there.

As for Japan being free and all that, Kallen is not a stupid girl, she knows very well that what her current band of merry men is doing is nothing more but annoying Britannia, which is why Zero was such an important figure for her, it gave her a sense of direction and purpose instead of rashly charging at Britannians just cause she wants to kill em.
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Old 2010-05-16, 10:43   Link #23424
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladinoras View Post
Well, she didn't have a will of her own before she met Zero, she was just following her brother's footsteps, or rather, trying to kill as many people as she possibly could who she believes to be responsible for her brother's death, i.e, every single Britannian out there.

As for Japan being free and all that, Kallen is not a stupid girl, she knows very well that what her current band of merry men is doing is nothing more but annoying Britannia, which is why Zero was such an important figure for her, it gave her a sense of direction and purpose instead of rashly charging at Britannians just cause she wants to kill em.
not accurate
he gave her the sense that she can WIN
not purpose, since she always HAD a purpose
he gave her a sense that she can actually ACHIEVE that purpose

and she never went for that whole "kill as many as you can" angle either
her targets usually were actual military people, or people who are a threat to her
not just "anyone who's britannian"
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Old 2010-05-16, 10:58   Link #23425
Paladinoras
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
not accurate
he gave her the sense that she can WIN
not purpose, since she always HAD a purpose
he gave her a sense that she can actually ACHIEVE that purpose

and she never went for that whole "kill as many as you can" angle either
her targets usually were actual military people, or people who are a threat to her
not just "anyone who's britannian"
Not really, before she met Zero, she had no real purpose, it was just to confront Britannians and free Japan and all that, but I don't think that she truly felt that it was her "own" purpose, more of the purpose that she inherited from her brother's ideologies. Which is why along the end, she developed her own will and reason, apart from the shackles of her brother's memories. The ability to win was something that Zero did bestow upon her, and that ability was what gave her a sense of purpose. I mean, constantly losing and whatnot can only get so far before Kallen loses hope and starts doing it just cause she wants to follow her brother.

Well, I wasn't really talking about civilians, after all my dear Kallen is not a psycho mass-murderer, but the relish she feels when she takes out a Britannian Knightframe is proof enough that she just enjoys killing them whenever she gets the chance, and I don't blame here.
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Old 2010-05-16, 12:02   Link #23426
bladeofdarkness
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But Kallen is a mass murderer.
heh ?
how so ?
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Old 2010-05-16, 12:24   Link #23427
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by Arbitres View Post
Kallen killed troves of soldiers. Killing is murder, whether on the battlefield or no. Doing it in self defense, self-preservation, or doing it for enjoyment doesn't justify it -- it was killing to survive. The murder to live on while others died.

I may have exaggerated when I added 'mass' in front of 'murderer'. I wasn't trying to sound biased at the time, it was unintentional. So sorry for that, Blade.
thats plain not true.
if it was, every soldier and cop who has ever taken a life would be a murderer.
its only murder if you intentionally (cold blooded or not) kill someone who can't fight back and isn't at all a threat to you
simply killing isn't enough to count as murder

kallen killed a LOT of people
best we can tell, she never murdered anybody
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Old 2010-05-16, 12:36   Link #23428
bladeofdarkness
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i'll concede that she's killed a LOT of people
as for the "murder" part, we'll just have to agree to disagree for now

though its quite suprising is that she's probably got a considerably lower death toll then Nunnaly by the end of the show
how the fuck did they think THAT was a good idea
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Old 2010-05-16, 12:38   Link #23429
Nogitsune
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
thats plain not true.
if it was, every soldier and cop who has ever taken a life would be a murderer.
its only murder if you intentionally (cold blooded or not) kill someone who can't fight back and isn't at all a threat to you
I mostly agree, but the "can't fight back" part seems a bit general to me. If I give someone a gun and a fair chance to kill me first, it'd still be murder if I was faster. Though yeah, if it was the other way around, my would-be victim would have acted in self-defence.
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Old 2010-05-16, 13:04   Link #23430
Nogitsune
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If you give them a gun and a fair chance to fight back, then you aren't on a real battlefield.
Yes...?
I never claimed otherwise.

And I still like Zero Requiem.
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Old 2010-05-16, 19:46   Link #23431
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Originally Posted by Arbitres View Post
Thank you, I acknowledge it as a good opinion to consider.

Nunnally had FLEIJAs,

Kallen had Radiant Wave Surger(s).


I don't know why they thought it was a good idea, they apparently want their lolis to be bloodstained. (figuratively speaking.)

How the fuck they thought ZR was a good idea is a better question.

In the end, I considered Kallen the protagonist more then Lelouch.
By then, intentionally or not, they turned Lelouch into a Woobie Destroyer of Worlds. Ditto Nunnally. The latter was almost 100% Schneizel though.
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Old 2010-05-17, 08:51   Link #23432
Paladinoras
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But Kallen is a mass murderer.
Not quite, a mass murderer, under strict definition, is someone who ordered the deaths of troves of people, or is directly responsible for their deaths. An example of this would be Adolf Hitler who ordered the genocide of the Jews, or Stalin who purged people who weren't supporting him, or of course, Lulu.

Kallen was a soldier, nothing more, nothing less. It is the twisted thought process of mankind, murder is acceptable as long as it is on a battlefield. War is the one and only place where people would actually be decorated and awarded for killing other people.

And in that respect, Kallen is not, and never will be, a mass murderer, she was simply doing her job. An often overused reason, yet true, a soldier who is unable to kill will be nothing more but dead weight on the battlefield. An unfortunate yet true fact.
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Old 2010-05-17, 20:39   Link #23433
SonOfHeaven
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I don't see what the big deal is. Kallen is an pilot so is the rest of the KMFs pilots in the show who killed people. Many characters took out others in KMFs in battles. At least Kallen didn't kill someone face to face which would have been more difficult to do. Like Lelouch to Clovis or C.C to Mao. In an battle it is expected people will die. Kallen fought for respectable reasons. And she wasn't like Lord Bradley anyway who enjoyed killing.
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Old 2010-05-17, 22:25   Link #23434
Alex Keller
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One of the sexiest Anime characters I've ever seen.
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Old 2010-05-17, 23:11   Link #23435
Betteroffer
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Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven View Post
I don't see what the big deal is. Kallen is an pilot so is the rest of the KMFs pilots in the show who killed people. Many characters took out others in KMFs in battles. At least Kallen didn't kill someone face to face which would have been more difficult to do. Like Lelouch to Clovis or C.C to Mao. In an battle it is expected people will die. Kallen fought for respectable reasons. And she wasn't like Lord Bradley anyway who enjoyed killing.
She almost knifed Suzaku twice though, and came close to shooting him on Kamine. She similarly came close to stabbing Shirley and Lelouch, though as has been said, the former was played for comedy.
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Old 2010-05-18, 01:59   Link #23436
morbosfist
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Suzaku is the enemy both times, and only the first time is an assassination. Shirley and Lelouch are understandable as she can't have her identity revealed.
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Old 2010-05-18, 02:46   Link #23437
SonOfHeaven
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Originally Posted by Betteroffer View Post
She almost knifed Suzaku twice though, and came close to shooting him on Kamine. She similarly came close to stabbing Shirley and Lelouch, though as has been said, the former was played for comedy.
Came close but still didn't happen though. Kallen didn't end up killing someone face first in the show.
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Old 2010-05-18, 06:31   Link #23438
Nogitsune
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Suzaku is the enemy both times, and only the first time is an assassination. Shirley and Lelouch are understandable as she can't have her identity revealed.
However, you can defend a lot of actions that way. Killing your friends for the cause is, in my opinion, no better than a lot of the stuff Lelouch did, and Kallen was ready to kill civilians even before she knew the resistance could amount to anything thanks to Zero.

Suzaku is a soldier, at least, but Shirley was completely innocent, and Lelouch was also a regular civilian in Kallen's eyes. I also don't see how Lelouch shooting Clovis or C.C. shooting Mao is supposed to be worse than Kallen and her group bringing civilians in danger or being ready to dispose of someone who considers you a friend. *hugs Clovis*
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Old 2010-05-18, 07:10   Link #23439
SonOfHeaven
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
Suzaku is a soldier, at least, but Shirley was completely innocent, and Lelouch was also a regular civilian in Kallen's eyes. I also don't see how Lelouch shooting Clovis or C.C. shooting Mao is supposed to be worse than Kallen and her group bringing civilians in danger or being ready to dispose of someone who considers you a friend. *hugs Clovis*
Don't think I ever said something was better or worse. I just went by what happened on screen aka who killed who face first. Fact is Clovis I guess cared for Lelouch, got shot. Mao was crazy(had history with C.C in the past) and got shot by C.C.

At turn 7, C.C didn't seem to care if the BK(who seemed to be ok with C.C at that point) was taken out including Kallen who she spent time with before R2. All that matter was Lelouch being alive. That was kind of messed up. I'll kindly agree to disagree also on the Kallen worse than Lelouch part as well. I'm going to leave it at that.
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Old 2010-05-18, 07:23   Link #23440
Nogitsune
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Don't think I ever said something was better or worse. I just went by what happened on screen.
Hm, all right, then I misinterpreted the "at least" at the beginning of the sentence. Sorry about that.

Quote:
Fact is Clovis I guess cared for Lelouch, got shot. Mao was crazy(had history with C.C in the past) and got shot by C.C.
Clovis, though he cared a lot about Lelouch, was a mass murderer and Mao was indeed crazy as well as dangerous as hell, so I'd say that makes it better.

Quote:
I'll kindly agree to disagree also on the Kallen worse than Lelouch part as well. I'm going to leave it at that.
Uh... where did I say Kallen was worse than Lelouch?
Quite a few of her actions weren't any better than a lot of Lelouch's actions, as far as I'm concerned. But that's all.
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