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Old 2010-05-18, 16:01   Link #10121
Laserworm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBackpack View Post
This supports a "Servant as the criminal" theory, because Eva and Hideyoshi trust the servants.

If Kyrie were at the door, well, I'd be suspicious.

But Shannon probably was just pretending to "do her cleaning duties" or something.

Or she forcefully broke in.
But they thought Shannon was dead. If anything I would scream and slammed the door as hard as I could.

Quote:
Is there any red text that states that everyone dies at the end of each game?

If not, maybe Kanon and Jessica were... I dunno... willing to kill their whole family in order to be together?
There is none, but if we go by the TIPS, and there death being shown at the Tea Party.
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Old 2010-05-18, 16:04   Link #10122
rogerpepitone
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Eva and Hideyoshi explicitly don't trust the servants. Eva told Kanon and Genji to stay in the parlor until they arrived at the guest room.

As for who they'd trust:
George: definitely
Battler: probably (Eva said she trusted Battler at an earlier point)
Maria: possibly (physically weak)
Nanjo: ???
Kumasawa: ???
Kinzo: ???
Jessica: probably not
Genji: no
Kanon: no
Natsuhi: absolutely not
anybody who was ostensibly dead at that point: NFW
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Old 2010-05-18, 16:05   Link #10123
SeagullCrazy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserworm View Post
There is none, but if we go by the TIPS, and there death being shown at the Tea Party.
Something interesting I noticed:

Battler, George, Jessica, and Maria survived to the 10th twilight.

Most theories for EP1 involve both Kanon and Shannon faking their deaths and surviving until the 10th twilight.

Those six people are the only ones shown alive in the EP1 Tea Party.
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Old 2010-05-18, 16:07   Link #10124
Laserworm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerpepitone View Post
Eva and Hideyoshi explicitly don't trust the servants. Eva told Kanon and Genji to stay in the parlor until they arrived at the guest room.

As for who they'd trust:
George: definitely
Battler: probably (Eva said she trusted Battler at an earlier point)
Maria: possibly (physically weak)
Nanjo: ???
Kumasawa: ???
Kinzo: ???
Jessica: probably not
Genji: no
Kanon: no
Natsuhi: absolutely not
anybody who was ostensibly dead at that point: NFW
I don't think they would unlock the chain for anyone besides George. I don't think they would trust Battler or Maria coming alone, or even together. Nanjo, I don't think so. Kinzo, I think Eva wouldn't on the fact that she thinks he is dead. Jessica, I don't think so, not after what just happened.

Quote:
Something interesting I noticed:

Battler, George, Jessica, and Maria survived to the 10th twilight.

Most theories for EP1 involve both Kanon and Shannon faking their deaths and surviving until the 10th twilight.

Those six people are the only ones shown alive in the EP1 Tea Party.
Yeah I thought that was strange too. So maybe it is a hint telling us that neither Shannon nor Kanon die until the mansion goes BOOM!
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Old 2010-05-18, 16:08   Link #10125
Judoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerpepitone View Post
As for the second twilight:
How did Shannon get into the room? If she tried to get in after they entered, Eva / Hideyoshi would never let her in. If she tried to get in before, how could she predict that anybody would leave the parlor, let alone who?
Shannon was hiding in the guest room the whole time Eva and Natsuhi were arguing to keep up the false fact that she was dead. The fact that they entered the room and locked it is established after this happened. Let's set aside whether Shannon's murder scheme was intentional or not.
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Old 2010-05-18, 16:14   Link #10126
Laserworm
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I've got a huge question most people say that Genji, Nanjo, and Kumaswa couldn't have killed anyone. But I have yet to find this red that says this. The only one I found that was like this was that The three were killed by other people.

Was there another?
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Old 2010-05-18, 16:16   Link #10127
Judoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserworm View Post
I've got a huge question most people say that Genji, Nanjo, and Kumaswa couldn't have killed anyone. But I have yet to find this red that says this. The only one I found that was like this was that The three were killed by other people.

Was there another?


(This refers to Kanon's death in Episode 1.)

Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjo are not murderers

A lot of people apply this to all games because there really isn't any reason say "none of these people are murderers" when you can simply say "none of these people are the culprit who killed Kanon".
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Old 2010-05-18, 16:18   Link #10128
Laserworm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
(This refers to Kanon's death in Episode 1.)

Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjo are not murderers

A lot of people apply this to all games because there really isn't any reason say "none of these people are murderers" when you can simply say "none of these people killed Kanon"
When is that said? I only have All of the survivors have alibis! Let us include the dead as well! In short, no human or dead person on the island could have killed Kanon.
Kanon did not commit suicide.


Those in my list of reds about Kanon's attack.
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Old 2010-05-18, 16:20   Link #10129
DaBackpack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
(This refers to Kanon's death in Episode 1.)

Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjo are not murderers
Well, it indirectly states in red that Kanon could not have died.

In short, no kind of human or dead person on the island could have killed Kanon!

So, he couldn't have died since we know that the mystery is solveable (due to Virgilia's hint in Episode 5).

There is reason to suspect that Shannon actually survived, too.

As for the Tea Party, the kids did spend time together on Rokkenjima.

Maybe they were just playing together... in one room.

And the adults died in another room when the children died in Battler's room. Just a thought.
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Old 2010-05-18, 16:22   Link #10130
Judoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserworm View Post
When is that said?
Episode 4 tea party.
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Old 2010-05-18, 16:25   Link #10131
Laserworm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Episode 4 tea party.
By who Beato, or 34?

And if that applies to all games, what happend in Natsuhi's room in ep2, or the servants room? Genji just happeneds to be in the room while Shannon and Ghoda are killing Nanjo and Kumaswa, but he doesn't take part by some unknown reason that we don't know about?

NVM found it. By 34 and she is talking about what happens in the parlor.
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Old 2010-05-18, 16:31   Link #10132
Judoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserworm View Post
By who Beato, or 34?
Beato said it. She got rid of one of Battler's theories for episode 1 so they had to readdress that episode. And who is 34?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserworm View Post
And if that applies to all games, what happend in Natsuhi's room in ep2, or the servants room? Genji just happeneds to be in the room while Shannon and Ghoda are killing Nanjo and Kumaswa, but he doesn't take part by some unknown reason that we don't know about?
I'll just repost one of my old posts on this

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=9019

Oh and Genji was not in Natsuhi's room at all. He also gave an explanation for why he couldn't go with them reread it.
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Old 2010-05-18, 16:35   Link #10133
Laserworm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Beato said it. She got rid of one of Battler's thoeries for episode 1 so they had to readdress that episode. And who is 34?



I'll just repost one of my old posts on this

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=9019

Oh and Genji was not in Natsuhi's room at all. Reread it.
I know Genji wasn't in Natsuhi's room. My latter statment mentioned the sevants room.

Isn't 34; the nickname for Lambdadelta? And she is the one to say that red. Beato lets him win the game with his They all shot each other and then Maria hid the guns.

I just reread the ??? Tea party for ep4, so I know Lambdadelta is the one who says it.
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Time ran out for the people on the island. All of them are dead. When the seagulls cry none shall be left alive. Sleep forever in a rest you will never be awakened from my beloved Beatrice. Persona: Project Mirror. http://persona-project-mirror.webs.com/ Check it out if you like the Persona series.
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Old 2010-05-18, 16:46   Link #10134
Judoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserworm View Post
Isn't 34; the nickname for Lambdadelta?
I've never heard that nickname before.

It doesn't really matter who said it though. Well in that way I guess the simultaneous murder thing wouldn't work. It probably isn't a good theory anyway since it doesn't explain why Maria was singing and Maria hiding guns is just silly. Battler is grasping straws.
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Old 2010-05-18, 16:49   Link #10135
Laserworm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
I've never heard that nickname before.

It doesn't really matter who said it though. Well in that way I guess the simultaneous murder thing wouldn't work. It probably isn't a good theory anyway since it doesn't explain why Maria was singing and Maria hiding guns is just silly. Battler is grasping straws.
I've heard it used all the time. Just look at her character topic XD.

That really is the only way to destory the simutaneous murder theory. And this is Lambdadelta we are talking about, I don't think it is all that wise to say it applies to all games. We should keep options open at least until we have something that proves they couldn't. After all one of them could have planted the bomb, and if we assume that red applies for all eps, it means they couldn't have.

In ep7 I really want Bern to come out and say in red. Kanon is not the culprit in ep1, and Shannon died in the 1st Twilight. So many people would be crushed.
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Last edited by Laserworm; 2010-05-18 at 17:02.
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Old 2010-05-18, 16:59   Link #10136
SeagullCrazy
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Since a theory for EP1 was just posted, I figured now might be a good time to show my theory about EP3. A lot of it came from the discussion we had many pages back regarding 07151129.
Now I'm confident in this, so let's see if it still holds up.


First Twilight:

Kanon, Shannon, Gohda, Kumasawa, and Genji planned on faking their deaths at the first twilight. They set up the magic circles and letters, and burnt Kinzo's body. Meanwhile, the adults were in the dining room the whole night. They realized that the servants were conspiring against them, and decided to get guns from Kinzo's study for protection. Then some of them went into rooms to lie down and rest. But they noticed the servants hiding, and shot them out of fear and self-defense. They opened the letters and went to each room, killing the servants out of self-defense.

Second Twilight:

Rosa, knowing that there was no killer to be afraid of, went outside with Maria to see the rose. Later, Rudolf went to check on Rosa, and found her. She told him about Eva and her finding the gold. Rudolf wanted the money and killed her in a fit of anger. Since Maria was a witness, he had to kill her too.

Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Twilights:

Since Rudolf and Kyrie knew that there was no culprit, they wanted to go to the mansion to get good food to eat. Hideyoshi came with them. When they got there, Rudolf questioned Hideyoshi about the gold. Believing in his wife, who had not told him about the gold, he said she never found it. Rudolf shot at him, but missed, and Hideyoshi killed Rudolf instead. Kyrie picked up Rudolf's gun and shot Hideyoshi. He shot her in the stomach before dying. Kyrie put stakes in the gunshot wounds, and collapsed on the floor.

Seventh and Eighth Twilights:

George jumped out the window of the guest house. Nanjo noticed that the window was open, and shut it. George suspected Krauss and Natsuhi of killing Shannon. When Eva went to wash her face, George tied a rope around their necks and strangled them. He brought their corpses to the rose garden and staked them.

Ninth Twilight:

Kyrie got up and wrote 07151129 on the door to the parlor. It was intended as a message for Nanjo, who originally told her that number. However, George got there first, and since he was conspiring with Nanjo as well, he thought it was a message from Nanjo to him. He went into the parlor, and Kyrie shot him. Then, when Nanjo was outside the servant's room, Kyrie shot him, and died from her stomach wound. Eva convinced herself she was the culprit and shot Battler.

Tenth Twilight:

Jessica died in the explosion. Eva went to Kuwadorian, where the explosion couldn't reach her.
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Old 2010-05-18, 17:04   Link #10137
Laserworm
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SeagullCrazy where did George and Kyrie get the stakes?
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Old 2010-05-18, 17:05   Link #10138
Judoh
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Actually I was just thinking of something for episode 3.

You remember how we had that theory that the Beatrice's floating heart scene had to do with Eva disarming the bomb? Well what if she really DID disarm it? That would explain how she survived without going to the Kuwadorian.

Furthermore Battler is shot dead eveyrbody else is killed and Jessica like Eva was never proclaimed dead. It's possible that both Eva and Jessica survived in episode 3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserworm View Post
where did George and Kyrie get the stakes?
Where do anybody get the stakes?
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Old 2010-05-18, 17:08   Link #10139
SeagullCrazy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserworm View Post
SeagullCrazy where did George and Kyrie get the stakes?
Nanjo is my best guess. In this theory, they both conspired with Nanjo, so it's not impossible he gave the stakes to them.

But I think it boils down to these two:

-Nanjo gave the killers the stakes beforehand
-Nanjo is a ninja and can stake people undetected

Since I don't want Nanjo to be a ninja I go with the first option

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh
You remember how we had that theory that the Beatrice's floating heart scene had to do with Eva disarming the bomb? Well what if she really DID disarm it? That would explain how she survived without going to the Kuwadorian.

Furthermore Battler is shot dead eveyrbody else is killed and Jessica like Eva was never proclaimed dead. It's possible that both Eva and Jessica survived in episode 3.
Yeah, that's possible. But why doesn't Jessica reappear in 1998? Thinking about it like that, it might be different depending on whether or not EP4-1998 is the same as EP6-1998.
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Old 2010-05-18, 17:09   Link #10140
Kylon99
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The use of '34' as a nickname actually started with Takano Miyo from Higurashi. The fans called her '34' because her first name, Mi and Yo are readings of the number 3 and 4.

In Umineko, as soon people heard the name Lambdadelta, they guessed she had some connection with Takano from Higurashi based on the Greek way of counting using their alphabet. Lambda is the 3rd letter, Delta is the 4th letter. And then when she appeared did we get the un-subtle hints at her giving her power of certainty to someone in the 'last game,' etc.

In the same way, people have surmised that Shannon is Lambdadelta's piece on the board because her name is Sayo. Once again, sa is a reading for 3 in Japanese and yo is 4 as you know.

By the way, this is how they guessed that Furfur is girl and represents Shannon since Furfur is the 34th listed demon in the Lesser Key of Solomon. As opposed to Zepar which represents Kanon since his name, Yoshiya can be -> 4 + 4 + 8 = 16. Zepar being the 16th demon listed in the Key of Solomon.

If we're going for even more paranoid theories, I'm guessing that George might also be 34's pawn owing to:
- Jou + ji -> if you take sou which is a reading for 3 and shi which is a reading for 4 'jyou ji' is sooooorta close...
- That and George and Gaap's fight where Gaap mentioned something about George's power of certainty. This is probably a better clue. 8)

I was also speculating that Kumasawa Chiyo might be related because of 'Chi' and 'Yo' but... I'm not sure of 'Chi' was a reading for 3. I don't remember if I located a reading of 'chi' for 3 in nanori (name readings, which are often all over the place in Japanese.)
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