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Old 2010-05-19, 06:05   Link #421
noobita
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Look I'm just saying why wouldn't you want Mikoto to watch his back? I mean, Touma has been making do with alot less before. For once to have a powerful Esper by his side no matter how you cut it, can only be seen as a huge bonus compared to the usual help he gets.
You sum it perfectly. People should treat Misaka entry as bonus, not burden or key victory. If Uihara come to Russia to help, that is burden.

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It's truth that Mikoto wouldn't be able to handle Fiamma, But that's the case for anybody else. Touma has Lessar with him, surely you don't think she can handle Fiamma? At the same time, she isn't a burden (As far as I know), what you're saying is that Mikoto would do worse than Lessar?
I agree this with you. Completely make sense.

And not to mention, under Misaka's watch, Touma can fully concentrate on offense as Misaka can help him by zapping away unnecessary debris or iron bar thrown at Touma.

Quote:
Touma+Accelerator+Acqua+Aurrelus vs Fiamma
Fiamma don't like this

Quote:
Touma+Accelerator+Acqua+Aurrelus+Misaka vs Fiamma
Fiamma really don't like this as he have to spend another 4% of his magic on another target.

@tsunade666

I have hard time to catch up with you. Yesterday you just said that Misaka would be a burden to Touma and today you just present a valid reason that Misaka would be a great additional to Touma's faction...
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Old 2010-05-19, 07:30   Link #422
giorno
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
It's truth that Mikoto wouldn't be able to handle Fiamma, But that's the case for anybody else. Touma has Lessar with him, surely you don't think she can handle Fiamma? At the same time, she isn't a burden (As far as I know), what you're saying is that Mikoto would do worse than Lessar?
Nope, she was actually helpful, but Fiamma wasn't fighting seriously, and Elizarina was there, too

What i'm saying is that Fiamma is bad enough as it is, Touma doesn't need someone who can't defend himself against him once Fiamma comes for him, Lessar and everyone else there(including Elizarina...) would have been a big burden on Touma if Fiamma was serious...

and to begin with, Touma broke his arm to protect them all from Fiamma's sword...so yeah, in a way, they were a burden, indeed...

Quote:
Look I'm just saying why wouldn't you want Mikoto to watch his back? I mean, Touma has been making do with alot less before. For once to have a powerful Esper by his side no matter how you cut it, can only be seen as a huge bonus compared to the usual help he gets.
duh, i'm not saying Mikoto wouldn't be a big help for Touma, because she would

Just not to fight Fiamma...
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Old 2010-05-19, 07:48   Link #423
noobita
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Originally Posted by giorno View Post
Nope, she was actually helpful, but Fiamma wasn't fighting seriously, and Elizarina was there, too

What i'm saying is that Fiamma is bad enough as it is, Touma doesn't need someone who can't defend himself against him once Fiamma comes for him, Lessar and everyone else there(including Elizarina...) would have been a big burden on Touma if Fiamma was serious...

and to begin with, Touma broke his arm to protect them all from Fiamma's sword...so yeah, in a way, they were a burden, indeed...


duh, i'm not saying Mikoto wouldn't be a big help for Touma, because she would

Just not to fight Fiamma...
be fair, in this entire argument, you are the only one who insisted to pitting Misaka with Fiamma while we are talking how Misaka being a good asset to have for Touma's faction.
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Old 2010-05-19, 08:12   Link #424
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Well, she is now the second most powerful level 5, so she's still good.
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Old 2010-05-19, 08:13   Link #425
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by noobita View Post
@tsunade666

I have hard time to catch up with you. Yesterday you just said that Misaka would be a burden to Touma and today you just present a valid reason that Misaka would be a great additional to Touma's faction...
Misaka is a burden in a way if they are alone figthing against a monster class. Unless a proper strategy is been met bu tthen again. I still couldn't see Misaka as a help when he would be dealing with Fianmma. Touma fought agaisnt Fianmma with 3 other helpers with magical artifcats with them.

Misaka would be a help if Touma would be dealing with those russian soldiers. Heck if the russia decided to launch a helicopter assault like what they did to hunt down shiage then touma is good as dead. Shiage is only alive because Aqua rescue him.

Lessa couldn't beat a helicopter neither Touma could. Could touma even punch a freaking tank!!!

It depends on the enemy. If the enemy is stronger than saint class. Like Fianmma and Aurreleous..... then misaka would BE A BURDEN!!!! she could help if she stay away and barrage a irritating lightning attack that wouldn't even hurt them but would distract and annoy them. So touma could punch the hell out of them.

BUT IF MISAKA FIGHT SIDE BY SIDE WITH TOUMA AND THEIR OPPONENT IS FIANMMA!

then you should understand already what would I say

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Originally Posted by giorno View Post

and to begin with, Touma broke his arm to protect them all from Fiamma's sword...so yeah, in a way, they were a burden, indeed...
What!? that huge 40 meter magical sword that Fianmma summon manage to broke his arm? then Fianmma isn't something to be understimated.
The only one who manage to damage him while defending with Imagine Breaker is Index with her Dragon's Breath. The dragon's breath manage to put cuts on his right hand.

Then The other girls would really be a burden if they are around when touma is fighting Fianmma because aside from thinking of a way to attack he needs to defend the other girls too.

And imagine if Mikoto would add up on this fight.

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Originally Posted by noobita View Post
be fair, in this entire argument, you are the only one who insisted to pitting Misaka with Fiamma while we are talking how Misaka being a good asset to have for Touma's faction.
Well the argument lead to that because Mikoto is going to Russia to help touma and we know who would touam fought their soooo.
Misaka would be a valuable asset to touma's faction when the story is still in vol 5 where the only opponents are the lower class mages and the middle class plus sum mercenaries. But when the Roman Catholics called for their God's Right Seat... then the story shifted to trouble.

Touma even protected Itsuwa while fighting against Terra and Aqua. That add on additional injuries on him.
But when his fighting with vent. their is no one beside him and their is only vent on the front and fuze=kazakiri on the back. If his been beaten, Vent would go crazy against fuze=kazakiri. So Touma could focus only on fighting her alone because he only needs to defend himself.

But then again when his fighting against Carizza which she can destroy a whole city in england with a downburst of her sword. Touam really did need help from Aqua and Kaori. But those two are saint class and can defend theirselves from a city wrecking attack.

But what about Mikoto?

Here is MY STAND!!!! Mikoto could be or couldn't be a burden and it depends on the situation and the enemy.

I'm being fair here on Mikoto and based on her strenghts. She is strong and I know that and everyone knows that. But I think everyone also know how crazy strong those magicians are and how touma's been dying fighting against them.

Last edited by tsunade666; 2010-05-19 at 08:25.
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Old 2010-05-19, 08:22   Link #426
Ashaman
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So basically, Misaka can be useful in most situations, but against the true Monsters she would be less than helpful, and more likely to get in the way.

Well, unless they come up with a good strategy first. and lets face it, to even stand a chance against people like Fiamma you need a stratergy anyway.

He is not the type you could just charge up to and win.
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Old 2010-05-19, 08:26   Link #427
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I think Mikoto would be a decent supporting character in the fight against Fiamma either way.
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Old 2010-05-19, 08:27   Link #428
tsunade666
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and remembering that his the big boss this round of the arc makes one think on how helpful could mikoto be. If she's going to russia.

That insane guy has an insane holy right plus an insane johnpen mode index plus the insane military force of russia (though his the most insane itself here)
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Old 2010-05-19, 08:29   Link #429
Eliminator
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
and remembering that his the big boss this round of the arc makes one think on how helpful could mikoto be. If she's going to russia.

That insane guy has an insane holy right plus an insane johnpen mode index plus the insane military force of russia (though his the most insane itself here)
It's likely that she is going to russia. She's probably going to try and find Touma and assist in the fight.
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Old 2010-05-19, 08:32   Link #430
tsunade666
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yap! that's the point. that's why theirs been a rage back then after the release of vol 20 of what could mikoto do. And now it's been unexpectedly revive.

From being a good asset on Touma's faction into "how could she be help this current arc"
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Old 2010-05-19, 08:42   Link #431
noobita
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Just make sure you don't drop the series if the novel reveal some twist that Misaka is the one who cause Fiamma's downfall.
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Old 2010-05-19, 08:56   Link #432
Eliminator
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Originally Posted by noobita View Post
Just make sure you don't drop the series if the novel reveal some twist that Misaka is the one who cause Fiamma's downfall.
It doesn't really matter in the end. I think Touma is the one who is going to be his downfall.

I think:

Spoiler for volume 21:
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Old 2010-05-19, 09:27   Link #433
giorno
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Originally Posted by noobita View Post
be fair, in this entire argument, you are the only one who insisted to pitting Misaka with Fiamma while we are talking how Misaka being a good asset to have for Touma's faction.
the reason is that Mikoto is going to Russia, and we're discussing how helpful she could be if she meets up with Touma

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What!? that huge 40 meter magical sword that Fianmma summon manage to broke his arm? then Fianmma isn't something to be understimated.
not sure wether it was broken or whatever, point is, it was injured

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So basically, Misaka can be useful in most situations, but against the true Monsters she would be less than helpful, and more likely to get in the way.
generally speaking, yes

Quote:
Well, unless they come up with a good strategy first. and lets face it, to even stand a chance against people like Fiamma you need a stratergy anyway.

He is not the type you could just charge up to and win.
definitely. He's even got the Archangel Gabriel now...

Quote:
I think Mikoto would be a decent supporting character in the fight against Fiamma either way.
depends on how the fight would go, who would be involved, and how seriously Fiamma fights...if he toys around like in volume 20, then yes, she would be of great help(the fight in volume 20 basically went like this: Fiamma attacks with gigantic sword, touma breaks the sword, Fiamma attacks Touma, Elizarina saves his ass, Fiamma attacks Elizarina, Lessar saves her ass, Fiamma blows away Lessar, Elizarina's men save Lessar's ass, rince repeat, until Vento showed up...)

if Fiamma goes to kill, it's better if she stays out of it. Seriously, she can't defend herself, her attacks would be useless, and other(s) would be too busy trying to survive themselves....

Quote:
That insane guy has an insane holy right plus an insane johnpen mode index plus the insane military force of russi
Index is in England, he doesn't need her, only the grimires in her head to use the holy right, and the Russian military is useless to him, but he's got a freaking Archangel now....
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Old 2010-05-19, 10:11   Link #434
Eliminator
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Accelerator is heading off to England to find Index, especially since he knows of her true location to try to cure LO (and possibly Index as well)

Chance of Accelerator encountering Mikoto = Almost 0%

Chance of Accelerator finding Index with Stiyl = Highly likely.
------
So it would be everyone heading off to Fiamma vs. Fiamma and the Archangel.
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Old 2010-05-19, 10:55   Link #435
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by noobita View Post
Just make sure you don't drop the series if the novel reveal some twist that Misaka is the one who cause Fiamma's downfall.
I would probably just LOL it

But if misaka just grew wings just like accel and kakine... well I don't know maybe I would drop the arc and wait on what will happen next.

Because if misaka manage to beat or be the cause of Fianmma's downfall.

I hope a GOOD PLOT STORY OR PLOT DEVICE FOR IT TOO WORK >< if not... just lol.

but if she just awaken their out of no where. Then that makes a first lie for Aleister Crowley and even his guardian angel Aiwass is proven wrong and their would be lot of lies and I don't know what to believe in now... then I would just lol.

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Originally Posted by giorno View Post
Index is in England, he doesn't need her, only the grimires in her head to use the holy right, and the Russian military is useless to him, but he's got a freaking Archangel now....
Fianmma can summon the robot or the john pen mode index. Just like what he did when after the battle of Carizza and when his been cornered by vent and kazakiri in vol 20. He still summon's that one.

If Fianmma manages to complete his holy freaking right. I don't know on how would they beat up that guy.
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Old 2010-05-19, 10:58   Link #436
Eliminator
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Is there going to be a chance that she'll awaken and have wings of lightning?
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Old 2010-05-19, 11:02   Link #437
tsunade666
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Nope, the only ones who could awaken are kakine and accel. Mikoto could copy it and create a wings of lightning but it shouldn't bring the same effect as when accel and kakine awakens.

The only one who could awaken are number 1 and number 2.
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Old 2010-05-19, 12:17   Link #438
Eliminator
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
Nope, the only ones who could awaken are kakine and accel. Mikoto could copy it and create a wings of lightning but it shouldn't bring the same effect as when accel and kakine awakens.

The only one who could awaken are number 1 and number 2.
But isn't Mikoto now level 2 after Kakine is dead?
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Old 2010-05-19, 12:23   Link #439
tsunade666
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It's not the ranking. I just use the numbers to replace the name.

The nature of misaka's ability is electricity and is within bounds by nature and physics.

The only one who could awaken are those who are not bound by the rules of nature and physics. Even if Accel and Kakine are espers their powers are replicate or rather has divine nature on them. Able them to create something from nothing and bend the rules of nature
on their own will.

Those two are specially made by Aleister. Though their is a plan behind those two and maybe he make two for a back up of each other. He did trick Kakine to make him full of anger towards accel.

Though if I say more it would be total off topic. we could continue this on accel's thread.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...=90761&page=13
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Old 2010-05-19, 14:08   Link #440
giorno
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
Fianmma can summon the robot or the john pen mode index. Just like what he did when his been cornered by vent and kazakiri in vol 20. He still summon's that one.
i'm pretty sure Kazakiri has yet to face Fiamma and Misha(Gabriel)
AFAIK Fiamma didn't summon Index, he just used the remote control to access the grimoires to unlock the holy right, and then proceeded to curb stomp Vento in an horrifying way...though i only understood bits of what happened and not even really well, so someone who could actually read volume 20 might clarify this...
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