Hayate no Gotoku manga (raw discussion only)

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by madmac

The girl who used to throw things at Hayate and then run away calling him stupid? Athena is very much a card carrying member of the tsundere club, yes. They're all reasonably nice girls when Hayate isn't pissing them off.

Athena cannot be tsundere since she's far too straightforward with her feelings.
She can be bossy indeed, and while many tsunderes are bossy, being bossy doesn't make a character tsundere.

Either way, I haven't been able to find any spoilers. ;_;

[Fandal]

This discussion is making me think a lot about Ayumu. I think Ayumu belongs in her own special zone. She managed to break the barriers of being a normal person and staying a normal person in a highly abnormal situation. Ever try to take a normal person and put them in a stressful situation? It's not a pretty sight. It's even more abnormal for the normal person with a normal life with normal friends and normal expectations to VOLUNTARILY leave normalcy for abnormalcy without any big external life-changing event happening.

In a way Hina, Athena, and Hayate had terrible lives and thus were forced by their environment to get where they are. Ayumu kinda just choose to go there just because, she's Ayumu!

Nagi probably belongs in her own special area too though the current chapter will explain more about her situation.

Wasn't there a post somewhere here which said somewhere back that said as Maria's history is slowly revealed, the main plot of this story will go forward? Maria is a rather major character. Chapter 1 did happened on December 24th.

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

Have we forgotten that Hina is only implied to have had a 'decent' life for the last year-or-so, solely on her own. She was shown crying in one of the glimpses of her younger years, and her sister was her only seeming comfort, was likely not around for several years while she was attempting to repay the debt. She knows what Hayate's life was like by empathy, something none of the other characters are shown to understand, possibly by hardening their hearts to others. Only Hina is shown to have kept a factor of emotion through her trials.
.

I don't recalled about when the"decent" life took place, but it doesn't really matter overall whether it's true or not, I supposed. It was natural for her to cry sometimes since she did got abandoned as a child; and, the crying happened to Hayate and Nagi as well, except for Athena as she was doing something unimaginable for a child.
I don't think Yukiji would left her sister alone, even if she were to doing those various jobs, especially not after they got abandoned by their parents. It would be absurd if Yujiki were to let that happened again.

Off tangent:
The only feeling Hayate and Hina possibly have in similar was the abandonment of their parents. However, how they felt about the matter was different, since Hayate already understood as a 16 years old and possibly realized it'll happen sooner or later whereas Hina didn't understand anything as a child. Hayate said there will be no second chance for his parents (had something to do with Athena I assume), but Hina kept on wondering why they abandoned her. I won't say Hina knows what's Hayate's life was like because she don't really know what he had gone through as a child; he was abandoned at 16 year old unlike her who's at 6 year of age, and he was working as a butler immediately.

Athena, on the other hand, knew much more than Hina what his life's like and will be like, since she actually knew what Hayate's parents were like (through the mirror) and even correctly predicted what will happen to him in the future. And she probably understood the loneliness he would felt.

Originally Posted by leoblack9

Hamster should not be included, she isn't qualified due to having a normal life in a normal household, no sadness to equal the same as the others (as of now).

In my opinion, Maria isn't really a tragic character too. She did not grow up in despair, but in luxury. She was already adopted when she was still a baby, which I doubt she would remember, so her tragic past isn't quite so tragic after all lest Maria wants to desperately see her real parents and suffer while searching for them.

[LEFT]Hina < Nagi < Athena < this is a space occupying text since there is no friggin tab button but hey the guys who run this site said f*ck me and i said hurr durr Hayate

Lol, nobody has a shittier life than Hayate himself, where the whole world takes pleasure in his despair rather than weep with him, like the girls whom we cry for so much for their past.

O darn, I was thinking from the rating of 0-10 in my head and added Ayumu for fun. Well, that was precisely why I placed Maria before Hina.

Similar case can be said for Athena since assassinations happened day and night for her where she had to deal with everything herself. At least, he still had his parents and had some hope. ^.^

Originally Posted by Used Can

Athena cannot be tsundere since she's far too straightforward with her feelings.
;

I would say she is a matured tsundere, not a typical one like Nagi and Hina.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

I would say she is a matured tsundere, not a typical one like Nagi and Hina.

That doesn't work. Athena was straight-forward from day one.
If the character didn't hide her feelings with aggression at some point, then that's not a tsundere. Athena never, not even once, hid her feelings from Hayate.

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Used Can

That doesn't work. Athena was straight-forward from day one.
If the character didn't hide her feelings with aggression at some point, then that's not a tsundere. Athena never, not even once, hid her feelings from Hayate.

One of my favorite scenes ^.^ : http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate...r/c181/13.html

[Koroshiya_Kame_13]

I'm pretty sure that Hinagiku's adoptive parents paid the debt for them when they took the sisters in. Although I can't remember which scene it was, I think either Hinagiku or Yukiji told Hayate how they were adopted.

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by Koroshiya_Kame_13

I'm pretty sure that Hinagiku's adoptive parents paid the debt for them when they took the sisters in. Although I can't remember which scene it was, I think either Hinagiku or Yukiji told Hayate how they were adopted.

As I remember it, Hinagiku told us that they were taken in 'after' the debt had been paid. Since we had also been told that Yukiji dealt with the debt 'in her own way', it seems that the Katsura's didn't want to deal with the sisters' debt.
Though Mr. Katsura is said to be fond of Yukiji. Maybe she convinced him to pay off the last of the debt, which she had planned to get from pawning her guitar, after returning from the Pawn Shop (with Athena's ring?).

I think we were told in the council room on Hina's b-day if someone wants to check.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

One of my favorite scenes ^.^ : http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate...r/c181/13.html

Aaand... I cannot do nothing against that. But, all the same, by that point, Athena had already kissed him and made her feelings clear several times. So, whatever, she's whatever she wants to be.

[leoblack9]

Originally Posted by Used Can

That doesn't work. Athena was straight-forward from day one.
If the character didn't hide her feelings with aggression at some point, then that's not a tsundere. Athena never, not even once, hid her feelings from Hayate.

Aaand... I cannot do nothing against that. But, all the same, by that point, Athena had already kissed him and made her feelings clear several times. So, whatever, she's whatever she wants to be.

BUT, Athena said that she cannot be with Hayate.

Thus.

Hayate goes back to square one and does not know that Athena would be coming back to "claim" him. So we could still say that she goes with the rule of tsundere.

[zodanhko]

Athena was always being straightforward in expressing her desires, may be through hints or directly. However, she'll be tsundere about it if Hayate was the one who takes the initiative, like when he kissed her during the training or in the example I gave.

[leoblack9]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Athena was always being straightforward in expressing her desires, may be through hints or directly. However, she'll be tsundere about it if Hayate was the one who takes the initiative, like when he kissed her during the training or in the example I gave.

Hayate's a tsundere trap. Best of both worlds? Lol dammit why am i thinking like this

[Jiraya2]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Athena was always being straightforward in expressing her desires, may be through hints or directly. However, she'll be tsundere about it if Hayate was the one who takes the initiative, like when he kissed her during the training or in the example I gave.

At least, Athena is a Yangire.
Hina is most likely a tsundere while Maria is a bit devious.
And Hayate very dumb as soon as it is about maiden feelings.

IMO, Athena and Hayate had the most painful childhoods because they were alone and in dangerous situations while Hina got her sister, Nagi got Klaus, Tama, Maria, ...

[Lisemer]

Athena as a Yangire?
You say that because of the incident at The End of the World?
If had read well the manga, you should already know that vioent actitude was Midas's fault, in the same way he influenced her to attack Hayate when Isumi comes to rescue him...

[leoblack9]

Originally Posted by Jiraya2

At least, Athena is a Yangire.
Hina is most likely a tsundere while Maria is a bit devious.
And Hayate very dumb as soon as it is about maiden feelings.

IMO, Athena and Hayate had the most painful childhoods because they were alone and in dangerous situations while Hina got her sister, Nagi got Klaus, Tama, Maria, ...

Only difference in that is, when Athena weeps, the whole world weeps with her. And when Hayate weeps, the whole world laughs at him and takes pleasure at his despair.

I wonder which is going to be painful, to have shit parents that would suck the sanity out of you or have no parents at all? One might be different from the viewpoint from another but I keep wondering if Hayate and Athena exchange places.

[zodanhko]

I think to be trapped in a place where you believed to be for eternity in solitude after your parents were dead as a 6 year old is unimaginable and could easily turned anyone insane. I would think that's worst or equivalence to the insanity Hayate's parents brought him through constantly lying and made used of him.

Let's say who's the unluckiest girl and unluckiest guy instead? Everybody wins except for them.

And ends this with the unluckiest girl+the unluckiest guy in the series become one lucky and happy couple.

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

I think to be trapped in a place where you believed to be for eternity in solitude after your parents were dead as a 6 year old is unimaginable and could easily turned anyone insane. I would think that's worst or equivalence to the insanity Hayate's parents brought him through constantly lying and made used of him.

Let's say who's the unluckiest girl and unluckiest guy instead? Everybody wins except for them.

And ends this with the unluckiest girl+the unluckiest guy in the series become one lucky and happy couple.

Several other sources, both realistic and fantasy, tell us that such factors tell us that it would turn anyone insane (even adults). For an apparent young girl to have gone through it and come out unscathed means she is either insane or completely cut off from her feelings.
Her final chapter hints that she is of the latter.
Although she wasn't entirely alone.. she did have Midas around..

And Hayate is far from the unluckiest guy. He has a harem of girls fully willing to become his slaves if he asked them to.
Kotarou is probably the series' unluckiest guy

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

Several other sources, both realistic and fantasy, tell us that such factors tell us that it would turn anyone insane (even adults). For an apparent young girl to have gone through it and come out unscathed means she is either insane or completely cut off from her feelings.
Her final chapter hints that she is of the latter.
Although she wasn't entirely alone.. she did have Midas around..

And Hayate is far from the unluckiest guy. He has a harem of girls fully willing to become his slaves if he asked them to.
Kotarou is probably the series' unluckiest guy

Realistically, true. Fantasy, not really. She was neither insane nor destroyed her feelings since she did keep her sanity (obvious) with her human heart. She was able love a young guy and even put his life above hers, and she still had feelings for her dead parents which indicated by her anger to Hayate's statement of "Because you have no parents." What it means was she was able to endure those pain as Ikusa stated.

Technically, she was alone. But really, having Midas around is either nothing or worst, and he won't keep her from the meaning of isolation.
I think everybody in HnG and even Hata agreed to Hayate's power of unluckiness. ^.^

[leoblack9]

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

And Hayate is far from the unluckiest guy. He has a harem of girls fully willing to become his slaves if he asked them to.
Kotarou is probably the series' unluckiest guy

He Doens't know, doesn't count. And he's technically a lil innocent kid in a 16 year old body, fortunately he didn't suffer the same fate as other pervert male leads and unfortunately he'll be everlastingly naive.

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Realistically, true. Fantasy, not really. She was neither insane nor destroyed her feelings since she did keep her sanity (obvious) with her human heart. She was able love a young guy and even put his life above hers, and she still had feelings for her dead parents which indicated by her anger to Hayate's statement of "Because you have no parents." What it means was she was able to endure those pain as Ikusa stated.

Technically, she was alone. But really, having Midas around is either nothing or worst, and he won't keep her from the meaning of isolation.
I think everybody in HnG and even Hata agreed to Hayate's power of unluckiness. ^.^

Nothing to say here, cause I can't counter something that most likely should've been made up that would have little to no support whatsoever unless Hata provides info himself.

Lol, no hard feelings. Just saying what I think it is.

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by leoblack9

Nothing to say here, cause I can't counter something that most likely should've been made up that would have little to no support whatsoever unless Hata provides info himself.

Lol, no hard feelings. Just saying what I think it is.

Haha, none taken. Though, I don't quite get your intention because I was giving some of the evidences provided throughout the EotW arc.

[zibi88]

well just saw full c273 (chinese) and well its finaly change of place... out from the residence into school... we have a splending image of how much hayate is a gigolo...all girls could belong to him xD...