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View Poll Results: Who would win?
Sarutobi in this Prime 103 91.15%
Orochimaru 10 8.85%
Draw 0 0%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2004-09-07, 05:36   Link #1
eviljiraiya
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Third Hokage vs. Orochimaru |.Take 2.| [Anime]

If the third was in his prime and orochimaru was as he was during their big fight, who would win (assuming that the Third doesnt use the death god summon)?.

I think Orochimaru would win. Hes got loads of bullshit techniques to pull on saurtobi.

For example, summoning the previous hokages, being able to kawarimi into mud or wotever, being able to vanish into the ground? and im pretty sure hes got more dirty tricks up his sleave.
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Old 2004-09-07, 05:44   Link #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eviljiraiya
If the third was in his prime and orochimaru was as he was during their big fight, who would win (assuming that the Third doesnt use the death god summon)?.

I think Orochimaru would win. Hes got loads of bullshit techniques to pull on saurtobi.

For example, summoning the previous hokages, being able to kawarimi into mud or wotever, being able to vanish into the ground? and im pretty sure hes got more dirty tricks up his sleave.
Probably Third Hokage because obviously he was more powerful in his prime and even in his old age he was still more then a match for Orochimaru and lost because Oro had time to plan and set everything up that he needed for the fight where as the third was caught by surprise and had to think on the spot.
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Old 2004-09-07, 05:47   Link #3
NoSanninWa
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Orochimaru had already used all his best techniques (which you mention) and he nearly died anyway while fighting against an old and used up Sarutobi. Considering this, it is safe to say that if Sarutobi was in his prime he would have totally pwn3d Orochimaru. If he'd been just a little bit stronger there isn't any question that he would have been able seal Orochimaru with him in the Shinigami's stomach. If he'd actually been in his prime I doubt that he would have had to attempt something so desperate.

Curiously, Sarutobi "The Professor," was renowned for knowing an awful lot of techniques himself. It is probable that he knows an answer for any dirty trick that Orichimaru knows so let's not even bother guessing how he would have responded to any of those "loads of bullshit techniques" that Orochimaru might have used if Sarutobi had been stronger. We can assume that "The Professor" can devise a counter to most, if not all, of them.

Even so, regardless of what Orochimaru thinks, just having several thousand techniques doesn't make someone the strongest. It's how you use what you have which matters most, and in that Sarutobi was clearly the better ninja.
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Old 2004-09-07, 06:10   Link #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSanninWa
Orochimaru had already used all his best techniques (which you mention) and he nearly died anyway while fighting against an old and used up Sarutobi. Considering this, it is safe to say that if Sarutobi was in his prime he would have totally pwn3d Orochimaru. If he'd been just a little bit stronger there isn't any question that he would have been able seal Orochimaru with him in the Shinigami's stomach. If he'd actually been in his prime I doubt that he would have had to attempt something so desperate.

Curiously, Sarutobi "The Professor," was renowned for knowing an awful lot of techniques himself. It is probable that he knows an answer for any dirty trick that Orichimaru knows so let's not even bother guessing how he would have responded to any of those "loads of bullshit techniques" that Orochimaru might have used if Sarutobi had been stronger. We can assume that "The Professor" can devise a counter to most, if not all, of them.

Even so, regardless of what Orochimaru thinks, just having several thousand techniques doesn't make someone the strongest. It's how you use what you have which matters most, and in that Sarutobi was clearly the better ninja.
ditto........
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Old 2004-09-07, 06:45   Link #5
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I say Third. Oro almost almost died while fighting a old age Third, and Oro had the First and Second to assist him, and he still lost his arms (almost his whole soul). Imagine the Third in his prime, game over.
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Old 2004-09-07, 08:08   Link #6
eviljiraiya
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Is there a huge gap of ability between the Third and the First or Second Hokage?

Sarutobi dealth with 2 Hokages - who are the strongest in their time AND also Oro.

How those 3 lost is certainly beyond me. It seems to me that someone like Jiraiya or even Kakashi could take out one of the previous Hokages.

Well maybe its cos they were walking zombies being the reason they weren't their true selves. Despite that, the first performed the Summon Treeeees no Jutsu and owned Sarutobi pretty good. Also that Darkness Everywhere no Jutsu was pretty bad ass.

In a fight realistically i dont see how the Third had a chance at all.
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Old 2004-09-07, 08:25   Link #7
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I don't think the 1st & 2nd were at their full power in that undead state. However, the 3rd did have to resort to a selfsacrificing technique to do it, so maybe their loss of power wasn't that great. That sealing move is just extremely powerful, which is no surprise considering the price to pay. As for the topic: 3rd, no contest.
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Old 2004-09-07, 11:36   Link #8
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The 3rd was considered to be the strongest Hokage ever. That's right, it implies that he was better than the 4th.
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Old 2004-09-07, 12:01   Link #9
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Orochimaru was totally owning Sarutobi until he used the Death God Jutsu. But I don't think that jutsu says anything about power and skill. The Fourth beat Kyuubi with it, that doesn't mean he is as powerful as Kyuubi. If Lee would open all eight Gates and manage to beat Gai, that wouldn't mean Lee is stronger than Gai.
Real Life example: If I were to fight the hundred best martial artists in the world, and when the fight begins, blow up everyone (including myself) with a bomb, that doesn't mean I'm equal in power to them.
Therefore, even if Orochimaru got hurt quite a lot by fighting Sarutobi, he outclassed him.
Until a counter to Edo Tensei is shown in anime or manga, I think the outcome would be a draw. The only way Sarutobi could defeat the first and second Hokage was the jutsu which killed himself, even if he is stronger than them, he wouldn't be able to kill them, slowly wearing him out, till he dies.
In any case ... the outcome really depends on the details of Edo Tensei.
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Old 2004-09-07, 12:14   Link #10
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3rd in his prime would have owned him. Orochimaru himself as much as admits this during the battle.
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Old 2004-09-07, 12:19   Link #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthriel
Orochimaru was totally owning Sarutobi until he used the Death God Jutsu. But I don't think that jutsu says anything about power and skill. The Fourth beat Kyuubi with it, that doesn't mean he is as powerful as Kyuubi. If Lee would open all eight Gates and manage to beat Gai, that wouldn't mean Lee is stronger than Gai.
Being a ninja is about killing your opponent with anything you have at your disposal... even if one is stronger than the other, if the weaker one has the ability to kill the other, then it doesn't mater.
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Old 2004-09-07, 12:30   Link #12
Anthriel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ketsueki
Being a ninja is about killing your opponent with anything you have at your disposal... even if one is stronger than the other, if the weaker one has the ability to kill the other, then it doesn't mater.
Yeah, but the weaker one is still weaker, and the stronger one is still stronger. Some people make it sound like Sarutobi and Orochimaru were about even in their power, even though they were obviously not.
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Old 2004-09-07, 12:31   Link #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthriel
Orochimaru was totally owning Sarutobi until he used the Death God Jutsu. But I don't think that jutsu says anything about power and skill. The Fourth beat Kyuubi with it, that doesn't mean he is as powerful as Kyuubi. If Lee would open all eight Gates and manage to beat Gai, that wouldn't mean Lee is stronger than Gai.
Real Life example: If I were to fight the hundred best martial artists in the world, and when the fight begins, blow up everyone (including myself) with a bomb, that doesn't mean I'm equal in power to them.
Therefore, even if Orochimaru got hurt quite a lot by fighting Sarutobi, he outclassed him.
Until a counter to Edo Tensei is shown in anime or manga, I think the outcome would be a draw. The only way Sarutobi could defeat the first and second Hokage was the jutsu which killed himself, even if he is stronger than them, he wouldn't be able to kill them, slowly wearing him out, till he dies.
In any case ... the outcome really depends on the details of Edo Tensei.
I don't see it that way. Even if they where just summons the 1st and 2nd where extremely powerful in that fight, and Orochimaru didn't dare come to close to Sarutobi (playing is safe, he knew that fighting him hand to hand was his last resort). Not only that, Sarutobi blew both Hokages up long before using his sealing technique, had those two been actual living ninjas he'd have disposed of both of them about five minutes into the fight. Orochimaru himself couldn't best Sarutobi in taijutsu, especially if Sarutobi summons Enma, and Orochimaru is more than outclassed in terms of ninjutsu. If at his old age Saruboti was able to handle two pseudo Hokages and almost take out Orochimaru; in his prime he must have been one bad ass ninja. He'd have certainly been more than powerful enough to slap Orochimaru around.
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Old 2004-09-07, 12:41   Link #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VMLM3
I don't see it that way. Even if they where just summons the 1st and 2nd where extremely powerful in that fight, and Orochimaru didn't dare come to close to Sarutobi (playing is safe, he knew that fighting him hand to hand was his last resort). Not only that, Sarutobi blew both Hokages up long before using his sealing technique, had those two been actual living ninjas he'd have disposed of both of them about five minutes into the fight. Orochimaru himself couldn't best Sarutobi in taijutsu, especially if Sarutobi summons Enma, and Orochimaru is more than outclassed in terms of ninjutsu. If at his old age Saruboti was able to handle two pseudo Hokages and almost take out Orochimaru; in his prime he must have been one bad ass ninja. He'd have certainly been more than powerful enough to slap Orochimaru around.
It's a matter of perspective I guess. Fact is, Sarubtobi didn't manage to hurt Orochmaru even once. Fact is, Orochimaru was enjoying their fight, I think it's quite obvious he was toying, but that's arguable. Whether Sarubtobi would have handled the former Hokages IF they would have been alive doesn't really matter, as they were not. Fact is, at the point he decided to use a suicide jutsu, Orochimaru was unharmed, because he knew there was absolutly no way he could win without dying himself, and even then he lost.
I call that getting owned.
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Old 2004-09-07, 12:53   Link #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthriel
Fact is, at the point he decided to use a suicide jutsu, Orochimaru was unharmed, because he knew there was absolutly no way he could win without dying himself, and even then he lost.
I call that getting owned.
Well, Orochimaru had to organize a massive attack on Konoha to even fight Sarutobi, he had to take him by surprise, trap him in a force field, prepare two super summons and change his body so he would be younger in order to take on Sarutobi. And even after preparing all this and having Sarutobi fall for it he lost both his arms. Orochimaru had the surprise factor, he had knowledge of where he would fight and with what. Sarutobi had to make everything up as he went, and he still managed to seal Orochimaru's arms. That doesn't exactly classify as ownage.

edit: I didn't say the summons where as powerful as the two previous Hokages, but they did have some awesome powers, I'm pretty sure the only ninjas that we know of at the moment that could've taken on ONE of either summon would've been Jirayia or Tsunade. Oh and I mention this because it gives you a clearer perspective on hust how powerful Sarutobi is in his old age. The fact that he could've taken on two living Sannin level ninjas in a few minutes shows you just how awesome Sarutobi was.
edit2: Oh and about why sarutobi used the death god jutsu. He knew that in order to take out Orochimaru he had to take out all three opponents at once, he couldn't go for Orochimaru because the two summons would stop him and to keep on fighting the two summons would've been useless, he couldn't hurt them and in order to get rid of them he would have to take out Orochimaru. So he used the Death God Jutsu.

Last edited by VMLM3; 2004-09-07 at 13:13.
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Old 2004-09-07, 13:22   Link #16
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VMLM3: if he didn't organize an attack on Konoha with the force field and all ANBU and all the jounins would be all over him in a second. And i don't think Sarutobi would have agreed to fight 1 vs 1 if he wasn't forced too, unless his village was in danger. And preparing the super summon's 'tags' would be like preparing shuriken for a mission. Oro knew he was going to fight so he was prepared, as was Sarutobi since we saw him in his black suit and carrying explosive tags. Orochimaru prepared to a bigger degree.

Even if Sarutobi was younger he can't destroy the summoned hokages i think. He said something like the only way was to destroy the soul of the summon so it would not regenerate, and the only way to do that is the death seal. If somehow a younger Sarutobi was able to stop the hokages from being summoned in the first place... then he would win the fight hands down. Otherwise it could go either way but i'm thinking Oro with the hokages would win.
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Old 2004-09-07, 13:28   Link #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snarl
VMLM3: if he didn't organize an attack on Konoha with the force field and all ANBU and all the jounins would be all over him in a second. And i don't think Sarutobi would have agreed to fight 1 vs 1 if he wasn't forced too, unless his village was in danger. And preparing the super summon's 'tags' would be like preparing shuriken for a mission.
True that the attack was necessary but your point about both of them being prepared isn't really valid. Where Sarutobi's preparations where those a Ninja would make everyday (Ninja always carry shuriken, and any other tools they think they would use should the occasion arise), Orochimaru's preparations where made to trap and then take out Sarutobi. Not to mention preparing those two summons must be much more complicated than readying shuriken for a fight. In that context Orochimaru was prepared for the fight, Sarutobi was not.
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Old 2004-09-07, 13:35   Link #18
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Well since Orochimaru says Sarutobi in his prime would have beaten him..............What do you think? Yet another useless topic
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Old 2004-09-07, 13:56   Link #19
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I know! some random kid runs in there with a machine gun and kills them both, end of discussion the kid is strongest.
Seriously though the strongest is the one who survives
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Old 2004-09-07, 15:17   Link #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSanninWa
Orochimaru had already used all his best techniques (which you mention) and he nearly died anyway while fighting against an old and used up Sarutobi. Considering this, it is safe to say that if Sarutobi was in his prime he would have totally pwn3d Orochimaru. If he'd been just a little bit stronger there isn't any question that he would have been able seal Orochimaru with him in the Shinigami's stomach. If he'd actually been in his prime I doubt that he would have had to attempt something so desperate.

Curiously, Sarutobi "The Professor," was renowned for knowing an awful lot of techniques himself. It is probable that he knows an answer for any dirty trick that Orichimaru knows so let's not even bother guessing how he would have responded to any of those "loads of bullshit techniques" that Orochimaru might have used if Sarutobi had been stronger. We can assume that "The Professor" can devise a counter to most, if not all, of them.

Even so, regardless of what Orochimaru thinks, just having several thousand techniques doesn't make someone the strongest. It's how you use what you have which matters most, and in that Sarutobi was clearly the better ninja.


Personally I agree with Nosaninwa,because I think he may have been able to seal up Orochimaru if he hadn't been stabbed through the heart.
The third was called the professor 'cause he knew all the jitsu's in the leaf(I think),
so Oro Edo tensei wouldn't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoReverse
The 3rd was considered to be the strongest Hokage ever. That's right, it implies that he was better than the 4th. .
I believe Jiraiya said the 4th was the strongest ninja of all time,and remeber when Anko was talking to the 3rd she said 'if only the 4th was here'.




1 question I thought Vs threads weren't allowed.....not that I wan this thread to be closed.
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Last edited by ace firefist; 2004-09-07 at 15:32.
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