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Old 2010-05-26, 22:15   Link #1921
Myssa Rei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
As these seem to be the main complaints of old Evangelion fans
It's not fun when people generalize -- I was part of the hilariously old-hat folk at the old EFML, but I liked the movies a lot. :P I turned into a moderate as I aged in the hobby I guess.

You're probably right about the so-called Hard Core people (like, oh EVAGeeks), who will probably never be pleased unless Anno suffers another breakdown and takes the Rebuild Movies back with him into the depths of despair... Yeah, I guess the No Mutants Allowed comparison is apt.
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Old 2010-05-27, 00:30   Link #1922
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children singing on some of the most bloody and violent scenes, wow
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Old 2010-05-27, 01:08   Link #1923
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Personally, i think the fact that Eva has such a wide and diverse fanbase pretty much doomed Rebuild to be something of a base breaker. When a fandom encompasses such a wide spectrum of people, then it's impossible to please everybody. And that's perfectly normal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OverMaster View Post
At this point, we are at only half of the story
Two-thirds, actually. Way back, when the first statements were released about Rebuild, it was said that 3.0 and 4.0 are slated to be shown together, a la EoE. Now, though the original scenario probably changed a lot, i think that with the ending of 2.0, we pretty much entered the end-game.
Spoiler for 2.0:


Quote:
So far, she has done enough to establish herself without stealing the spotlight away from the old guard; if she had been given more screentime, the same Unpleasable Fanbase who is now calling her pointless would be calling her Mary Sue instead.
You are right. It's best to have a balanced view on things: she's a pointless Mary Sue (i kid, i kid). Seriously, though, i don't have much of a problem with her, but i really don't see where in the next movie could they fit some serious character development for Mari. Say what you will about the quiet moments or the high school romantic comedy subplot in 2.0, those are the instances where the characters could be established as anything more than talking heads.
Spoiler:
I'm sure Mari will have an awesome role in the future movies, but since she lacks a solid base to build on, i doubt her character will be expanded too much.
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Old 2010-05-27, 01:22   Link #1924
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I really didn't like how they introduced Asuka.
Also, she didn't get enough screen time.

The new character felt completely pointless. Why is she in this movie again?
The animation was very pretty and BGM was great as expected, but scenario wise, I didn't enjoy this nearly as much as the first movie.
It was a fun watch just as an action flick.

Honestly, I have no idea what direction they plan on taking this series.
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Old 2010-05-27, 01:35   Link #1925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyosak View Post
I really didn't like how they introduced Asuka.
Also, she didn't get enough screen time.
It's a consequence of the movie format. This isn't TV series or even an OVA where whole episodes can be allotted for character development.


Quote:
The new character felt completely pointless. Why is she in this movie again?
She was to fill in for Asuka, since Asuka herself filled in for Touji's place as Test Pilot of Unit-03. Kind of obvious don't you think?

Quote:
Honestly, I have no idea what direction they plan on taking this series.
And is that honestly a bad thing? I guess people are soooo cynical these days that they can never look at things with an open mind anymore.
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Old 2010-05-27, 02:49   Link #1926
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Fourth, some of us suspect that this similar to Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland,

Spoiler:
This was also heavily hinted upon in SRW where

Spoiler:
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Old 2010-05-27, 03:35   Link #1927
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Originally Posted by Village Idiot View Post
This was also heavily hinted upon in SRW where

Spoiler:
But are we supposed to take the SRW story serious in terms of linking back to the source material?
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Old 2010-05-27, 03:48   Link #1928
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I guess people especially EVA TV fans were expecting a replay of the more psychological TV series. Missing the point that this is another universe with different things with the same plot.
To me, this is like Kare Kano sounds + TTGL + Evangelion TV = Rebuild of Eva.
I think people are in denial of how Shinji is not as wimp in TV series and End of Eva.
I think this just shows how things are different if your personality is different. Distorting the way universe's future.
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Old 2010-05-27, 04:10   Link #1929
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People are in denial because after more than a decade of wishing for Shinji to man up, when Anno actually does it, they complain that it's no longer the same Shinji.

Similarly more than a decade ago many of us wished that Asuka was less of a stuck-up b*tch... And lo and behold, when she's NOT a stuck-up b*tch, many people still don't like it.

Unpleasable Fanbase in action! Or rather, the Grognard's Logic in action!
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Old 2010-05-27, 04:15   Link #1930
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Originally Posted by rave_master16 View Post
I think this just shows how things are different if your personality is different. Distorting the way universe's future.
Really? I just think Rebuild reflects the times... the 90's were dominated by darker and grittier tones. All that over saturation of doom and gloom basically led to this light-hearted moe explosion we have now. Remakes pretty much always end up reflecting the demands of the largest potential market... you gotta sell as much as your shit to the broadest market possible ya know!
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Old 2010-05-27, 06:40   Link #1931
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Damn, I just saw how well 2.22 sold and had to get a little sneak peek on it...I mean watching the whole thing in glorious 1080p. Besides Shinji's GAR moment being a little cheesy and making me cringe, it was good stuff, epic from beginning to end, and plenty of fan service. I think this deserves its popularity.

The biggest change was probably making the characters more humane and easy to understand, and I suppose that's what most of the displeased fans are complaining about. I think it's for the better. They're all so cute and lovable now...in the original series I found the characters broken, insane and awkward. As much as I like those kinds of characters, the story just seems to work out better this way.
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Old 2010-05-27, 06:53   Link #1932
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I find the relationships and characters in NGE to be as complex as in real life and pretty normal.
Bdw they completely trashed the Asuka x Kaji and Gendo x Ritsuko thing in Rebuild.
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Old 2010-05-27, 09:07   Link #1933
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Yes, because I complain too when reverse one-sided pedophillia is taken away!

Really, it was a minor blip compared to her bipolar superior/inferiority complex. It added to her eventual breakdown, but hardly gamebreaking enough.

And Ritsuko's "relationship" was more keyed into the eventual reveal of Rei clones, but since Not Advance, a new scenario could be perfectly made up.
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Old 2010-05-27, 12:48   Link #1934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
People are in denial because after more than a decade of wishing for Shinji to man up, when Anno actually does it, they complain that it's no longer the same Shinji.

Similarly more than a decade ago many of us wished that Asuka was less of a stuck-up b*tch... And lo and behold, when she's NOT a stuck-up b*tch, many people still don't like it.

Unpleasable Fanbase in action! Or rather, the Grognard's Logic in action!
Shinji manning up? No, I don't think the majority of the hard core fans wanted that. Shinji's plight was an essential part to making Evangelion so great. Changing that is... utterly ridiculous.
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Old 2010-05-27, 14:19   Link #1935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Shinji manning up? No, I don't think the majority of the hard core fans wanted that. Shinji's plight was an essential part to making Evangelion so great. Changing that is... utterly ridiculous.
I'm not sure where you get your 'majority' from and what's your definition of 'hard core fan'.

But so far, we SRW fans, which is made up of the most 'hard core' mecha fans, have always loved Shinji 'manning up' in various versions of SRW.

Your 'majority' and 'hard core', don't seem to match mine, so I don't agree with you that changing Shinji is 'utterly ridiculous'.

Purism isn't always the best.
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Old 2010-05-27, 15:44   Link #1936
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
I'm not sure where you get your 'majority' from and what's your definition of 'hard core fan'.

But so far, we SRW fans, which is made up of the most 'hard core' mecha fans, have always loved Shinji 'manning up' in various versions of SRW.

Your 'majority' and 'hard core', don't seem to match mine, so I don't agree with you that changing Shinji is 'utterly ridiculous'.

Purism isn't always the best.
I'm talking about sites like evageeks. Being a hardcore mecha fan has nothing to do with being a hard core evangelion fan.

But regardless. Shinji manning up is ridiculous, in my opinion. That goes against everything the series stood for.
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Old 2010-05-27, 17:45   Link #1937
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I for one welcome him manning up a bit and it does not affect how I like the series as I simply don't think that him being a baby was the reason why the original series turned out to be so great. And it isn't like he is far from the spineless wimp as originally depicted but giving him a bit of spine does help empathize with him rather than wanting to punch him every time he appears on screen. I rather liked how he went berserk and had the guts to take it to his father...something I can't remember him doing before since it has all just been the "I will run away" mentality.
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Old 2010-05-27, 18:11   Link #1938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I'm talking about sites like evageeks.

But regardless. Shinji manning up is ridiculous, in my opinion. That goes against everything the series stood for.
Goes against everything the series had stood for? Are you sure we watched the same TV series? Or are we just too hung up on the fact that Anno is happy now instead of wallowing in the depths of depression, which many admit influenced the tone of the anime.

In as much as grognards hate it, Anno IS making Shinji 'man up', or at the least more emotionally stable. :P I do think the movie is better for it, since as Deathskillz so succinctly put it, the lack of whine factor makes it easier for a viewer to actually empathize now with, say, Shinji, than just wish that they'd die horribly in a fire.
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Old 2010-05-27, 18:15   Link #1939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyougaElliot View Post
Ironically I like the versions of the characters here more so than the original series.
Exactly how I feel. The original show just seemed too obscure in its meaning. Some fans claim thats artsy but I find it just an excuse for a badly explained story.

the rebuild's story seems much easier to follow. Plus I love the changes to the characters.

Spoiler for Eva 2.0:


All in all the characters are more likable in me eyes and by the end of the movie I was actually cheering for Shinji. Me cheering for mr. cry baby. Madness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
But regardless. Shinji manning up is ridiculous, in my opinion. That goes against everything the series stood for.

What was the originally show about except showing how epically you fail if you don't man up. In the rebuild it shows how gaining confidence is a boon. They go hand in hand. I believe rebuild has the better approach since the original cry baby shinji distracted from the intent of the show and simply made viewers wish for the worthless loser's death.

Like I said, the biggest change for me was that I actually empathize with and even cheered on shinji by the end of the movie. Thats a big success for Eva 2.0 in my eyes since I thought that was impossible to do and its simply my favorite part of the flim.

I'll also say that that the rebuild is for those that have first seen the show. The contrast between the movie's and the show's events is a big part of the attraction. Having watched the show first you'll be able to gain the missing character development that the movie just doesn't have the time for.

P.S.

As far as I know, "hardcore" eva fans have always dreamed of what it would be like if Shinji for once in his pathetic life maned up. Eva 2.0 answers that ago old question and boy does it deliver.
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Old 2010-05-27, 18:49   Link #1940
Reckoner
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The difference between many animes and Evangelion is that though characters in other animes may sometimes have personal problems that they do eventually solve, in Evangelion the characters seem to ultimately fail. Their weaknesses don't disappear, as often is realistic of human beings in general.

Again, not everyone finds Shinji whiny. Personally, I was able to empathize with his character perfectly and found him to be one of the most interesting anime characters of all time. If he is able to overcome his problems, that disappears. Many people who complained about Shinji in the original TV series missed the point.

Much of the series dealt with the idea of running away from problems, the hedgehog's dilemma, and issues with the very idea of reason of being. Shinji was at the focal point of this, and probably reflected Anno's struggles in his own life. Sure, Anno may be a much happier person now... But why does that matter? Again, if he wanted to introduce a totally new mindset, DO NOT call this series Evangelion, and make something completely new.

If you want to cheer for someone like Simon from TTGL, you already have your own series. Leave this one alone.
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