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Old 2010-05-28, 05:55   Link #1961
Myssa Rei
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ac195: At least some of that can be explained by time constraints though (movie-length, remember?). Broader appeal -- while EVA fans watched the movies, there were ALSO non-longtime fans as well -- is another factor, though some might take umbrage at this, since apparently 'condensing' Asuka turned her into a hated moe archetype: the Tsundere.
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Old 2010-05-28, 06:14   Link #1962
bigdeath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonkid11 View Post
I think that Mari was with some organisation that...erm...know what Seele doing and they were trying to stop them...
Its certainly possible, who knows?

Heres something I learned from tv tropes:

Quote:
If you watch carefully, you'll notice that Shinji's SDAT skips to track 27, which it never did in the TV show, just before 2.0 goes completely Off The Rails.
ROFL, its as if the movie is bluntly telling you its steer far off course from the show.
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Old 2010-05-28, 06:17   Link #1963
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
My feelings towards Rebuild have ranged everywhere from indifference to excitement to nerd-rage, sometimes in combination. I am left very confused by Anno's intentions with this film and where he was planning to go in the first place.

If he wanted to remake Evangelion, as a treat to old fans and a gateway for new fans, he is doing a piss poor job. If he is just trying to completely reimagine the series, I don't understand why he needs to go back to milk the Evangelion franchise all over again, unless his sole intention is to line his pockets with cash.
Your description of the character changes in Eva 2.22 looks spot on to me. The question that pops in to my head now is why? Evangelions cast has spawned many lesser copies throughout modern anime, and it's surprising these stereotypes have seemingly replaced the original characters in Eva 2.22.

I don't believe for one second that Anno threw out his artistic integrity just to cash in on Eva, the man is way to stubborn for that. There is no need for it either, as the originals even today are largely succesfull, so I don't buy the gateway theory at all. Nor do his recent works in anime and movies suggest a switch to simple generic works. Anno may go for a tie-in with the original at some point like Top wo Nerae! and Top wo Nerae 2! did or maybe a total mindfuck in the third or fourth installment. Anno already fooled his critics once in End of Eva, he may do it again. Still, I'm just going to enjoy the ride and reserve judgement till the fourth movie is completed. Anything can happen, this is Eva and the unpredictability is part of the charm.
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Old 2010-05-28, 06:29   Link #1964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri View Post
The question that pops in to my head now is why?
The need for condensation? The movie format leaves very little space to work with in terms or characterization, and even with four movies it's still hard to do, especially since it's based on an existing setting. Corners will inevitably be cut, or else we'd have something on the scale of War and Peace, which would be too much for a casual movie-goer.
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Old 2010-05-28, 07:07   Link #1965
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Originally Posted by Bri View Post
Your description of the character changes in Eva 2.22 looks spot on to me. The question that pops in to my head now is why? Evangelions cast has spawned many lesser copies throughout modern anime, and it's surprising these stereotypes have seemingly replaced the original characters in Eva 2.22.

I don't believe for one second that Anno threw out his artistic integrity just to cash in on Eva, the man is way to stubborn for that. There is no need for it either, as the originals even today are largely succesfull, so I don't buy the gateway theory at all. Nor do his recent works in anime and movies suggest a switch to simple generic works. Anno may go for a tie-in with the original at some point like Top wo Nerae! and Top wo Nerae 2! did or maybe a total mindfuck in the third or fourth installment. Anno already fooled his critics once in End of Eva, he may do it again. Still, I'm just going to enjoy the ride and reserve judgement till the fourth movie is completed. Anything can happen, this is Eva and the unpredictability is part of the charm.
For some reason,I feel the end is not going to be Angel is all dead and Seele is destroyed...

Aside from that,I think the need of fanservice in the movie is...not necessary,seriously,NO

Althought I freaking loled at one part,but it's still a no to me
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Old 2010-05-28, 07:13   Link #1966
Bri
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Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
The need for condensation? The movie format leaves very little space to work with in terms or characterization, and even with four movies it's still hard to do, especially since it's based on an existing setting. Corners will inevitably be cut, or else we'd have something on the scale of War and Peace, which would be too much for a casual movie-goer.
It's possible but I don't think it's very likely. Using stereotype otaku conventions in these characters might even alienate a more mainstream audience that did not have exposure to more recent anime.

So I would assume it was done for a plot purpose.
Spoiler for speculation on plot:
Also the four movies (assuming 3 and 4 will have the same running time as 1 and 2) will have the same amount of effective screen time as roughly 20 episodes of a TV series. That should be plenty for any type of characterization they wish for. While psychological in nature, Evangelion is not a novel that needs to be severely condensed to fit a screen format.

Last edited by Bri; 2010-05-28 at 07:23.
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Old 2010-05-28, 08:00   Link #1967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri View Post
Also the four movies (assuming 3 and 4 will have the same running time as 1 and 2) will have the same amount of effective screen time as roughly 20 episodes of a TV series. That should be plenty for any type of characterization they wish for.
Do recall though, that while the first movie paralleled the events of the first six odd episodes with little variations, Rebuild 2.0 (before completely going in the new plot direction that Anno hinted at) took bits and pieces of the Gaghiel encounter, before plunging head-on into Sahaquiel, Bardiel, and Zeruel. These Angels, barring Gaghiel, all appeared during the second half of the TV series (ten or twelve odd episodes all told). Take note, many of the character-establishing episodes were part of this second half.

Adapting 6 episodes is one thing, but fitting the events of almost a dozen in a single movie, using the events of the TV series as a 'framework' at the same time still having space for the new additions, would be awkward or unwieldy storytelling-wise; it can be hit or miss (see: the various Gundam compilation movies). Things would have to be condensed, or given less focus than they'd normally have been given in a full-length 2-cour TV airing.
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Old 2010-05-28, 08:33   Link #1968
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I can only say to those who want the movie to stay faithful to the tv series, well it is not a remake, get that point in mind and try to enjoy the movie : )

Man i was hoping they go to re-take route though
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Old 2010-05-28, 08:46   Link #1969
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It's just that you can't compare a TV series to a movie. No, I don't give a fock if it's NGE. You can't do that in general. Not only in length, but expectations and experiences for the different median change things far too much.
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Old 2010-05-28, 10:34   Link #1970
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I immensely enjoyed Evangelion 2.22, as someone who also watched the original TV serie in 1999 (German sub release, i still have the VHS-Cassette as my prized Collection) i dont think it is as bad as others make it in comparision to the TV serie. Sure the movies have differences with the TV series but i like them both and atm i cant compare them which is better because i havent the see "end" of the movies. What i can say is when i watched the end of the TV serie is i was puzzed and confuse and also angry because the end was not a "clear end" but totaly "open" ending which you can imagine whatever you wanted. I quarreled with my friend 2 days because the ending what it could should mean, so i am really glad that there is a "remake" of evangelion with hopefully a more proper ending as the TV serie.

On a scale of 1-10 i would give the evangelion movies 100 points for the moment I know i am biased and a fanboy but i dont care! btw the TV serie would get 99 points only, 1 minus points because of it's ending. I watched Rebirth and End of Evangelion and both didnt get to me because the ending there wasnt a "hit" either. I hope Rebuild Evangelion does it better.
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Old 2010-05-28, 10:43   Link #1971
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Yeah...it's fine if people didn't like the movie, but this whole "I hated the movie because I'm an OLD SCHOOL/REAL fan of Eva" thing has got to stop. It's beyond annoying.

Anyway, aren't we all forgetting something...?

Spoiler for Images:


How awesome was THAT?
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Old 2010-05-28, 10:49   Link #1972
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Spoiler for Pen2:
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Old 2010-05-28, 11:00   Link #1973
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My point exactly, Bran.
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Old 2010-05-28, 11:02   Link #1974
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He's also quite funny during the decontamination before they enter the aquarium. xD
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Old 2010-05-28, 11:15   Link #1975
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Pen Pen is the real hero of Eva rebuild. He shall save Shinji and Rei from their "joining" and he even gets hot women in the sack. Hes the one that found Shinji's pair in the first place. Its true, don't question it. All hail the Penguin emperor!
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Old 2010-05-28, 11:38   Link #1976
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He saw Shinji "expand" in the hotspring. Good thing he didn't mistake it with a fish.
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Old 2010-05-28, 12:10   Link #1977
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Pen Pen is the real hero of Eva rebuild. He shall save Shinji and Rei from their "joining" and he even gets hot women in the sack. Hes the one that found Shinji's pair in the first place. Its true, don't question it. All hail the Penguin emperor!
Totally.

When they talk in the preview for 3.0 about
Spoiler for mild spoiler:
... NOW you know who they're talking about!
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Old 2010-05-28, 12:21   Link #1978
Bri
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Yeah...it's fine if people didn't like the movie, but this whole "I hated the movie because I'm an OLD SCHOOL/REAL fan of Eva" thing has got to stop. It's beyond annoying.
Hmm, where did that happen? I've only read back a few pages of the thread since I received the BR yesterday. The discussion seems to be very cordial on what people like/dislike other then some generalizations being used. Or am I missing something?
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Old 2010-05-28, 13:07   Link #1979
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Hmm, where did that happen? I've only read back a few pages of the thread since I received the BR yesterday. The discussion seems to be very cordial on what people like/dislike other then some generalizations being used. Or am I missing something?
It's true that it's more implied than directly stated...I'm talking mostly about stuff like this (and sorry if I'm stepping on people's toes by singling out some particular comments...I'm not doing it as an attack, and I hope no one takes it as such):

Quote:
Originally Posted by bran View Post
As a true fan of the original eva i didin't really like the movie so much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Most of the complaints from old eva fans are not simply "THEY CHANGED THE PLOT OMGZ." The complaints have more to do with the characters and their interactions.
And reckoner's signature:
Quote:
In this time of Rebuild, I'm proud to be one of the few fans of the original NGE, and one of the last proud fans of Asuka Langley Soryu.
Implying that a TRUE FAN won't like the new movie...but here I am, and here Myssa Rei is. Both of us are true fans, and both of us liked it. And I don't know about Myssa, but I'm a HUGE Asuka fan, and I still loved the new movie.

You either like the movie or you don't. Liking it doesn't make you a "better" fan of the original, and neither does disliking it.
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Old 2010-05-28, 13:30   Link #1980
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It's true that it's more implied than directly stated...I'm talking mostly about stuff like this (and sorry if I'm stepping on people's toes by singling out some particular comments...I'm not doing it as an attack, and I hope no one takes it as such):





And reckoner's signature:


Implying that a TRUE FAN won't like the new movie...but here I am, and here Myssa Rei is. Both of us are true fans, and both of us liked it. And I don't know about Myssa, but I'm a HUGE Asuka fan, and I still loved the new movie.

You either like the movie or you don't. Liking it doesn't make you a "better" fan of the original, and neither does disliking it.
^ Agreed 100%
The main thing I like about Rebuild is that it's different from what we're used to seeing in the series. It brings my curiousity come to life. What it'd be like to go up to Rei in class and get her to react, give her miso soup. It's something that Shinji knows that this Rei is not replaceable and is determined to save her like he couldn't do with Asuka.
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