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Old 2010-05-30, 17:25   Link #2061
orion
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Spoiler for Yes.:
He doesn't have to this time. He has Rei now.

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Originally Posted by airstorm View Post
I don't think the characters have been changed very drastically, they are the same ones, but the stimulus provided to them has now been altered, so their reactions and perceptions have changed. Not to try digging too deep here (though, thats a lost cause as its Evangelion), but Shinji didn't have as much time in the movies to bond (positively) with Asuka as he did with Rei, who also had the opportunity to express some emotions back to him too (remember he never found out Asuka was trying to cook for him but he had read Rei's invitation). That he therefore felt far closer to her and fought harder to save her is hardly a surprise. Also, as the movies seem to be stringing events over a shorter period of time, they don't get as much of the war weariness of the series. They get to maintain some of their confidence, hope and optimism and that is showing.
All the motivations so far are different. Misato isn't doing the "bad girl" thing. Shinji is more GAR. Rei has emotions and prob fell in love with Shinji this time. Asuka wants friends and was prob cooking for Shinji out of fear of "losing" her one friend that can relate to her to Rei. No way I would buy that Asuka has a crush on Shinji this time. If anythiing, Asuka is more of a "hedgehog" than Shinji is.
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Old 2010-05-30, 17:25   Link #2062
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Originally Posted by airstorm View Post
Reckoner, you're a braver soul than me to watch 25+26 more than once. When I introduce people to Eva I put them straight to EoE after ep 24.
Hey, I actually like 26 . 25 is kinda meh, and I did not like 24 but I think they got it this time.

EoE is of course on a whole new level for me. While I merely liked Eva TV, I loved EoE. At first I was like "lol wut" but it has grown on me quite well because it truly completes the story for everyone's characters and most importantly made me feel for the characters.

I don't need Rebuild to be the same, but it'd be nice if it could generate something on par.

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Spoiler for Yes.:
Wait, who else could have shot first... Oh never mind. Ah yes, kid can't get laid, ends world. And then you remember why Gendo's doing this shit, and who/what Anno was addressing and it all kinda makes sense But fast foward 15 years later, and Shinji will probably be more fortunate this time.
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Old 2010-05-30, 17:29   Link #2063
RisArk
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All the motivations so far are different. Misato isn't doing the "bad girl" thing. Shinji is more GAR. Rei has emotions and prob fell in love with Shinji this time. Asuka wants friends and was prob cooking for Shinji out of fear of "losing" her one friend that can relate to her to Rei. No way I would buy that Asuka has a crush on Shinji this time. If anythiing, Asuka is more of a "hedgehog" than Shinji is.
Misato was never a "bad girl" (what do you mean, slut?)

Asuka is actually very anti-social, even more in the movie (kicking random people and never befriending Hikari. Then again, why were they BFF in the series? Idunno)
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Old 2010-05-30, 18:02   Link #2064
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Originally Posted by RisArk View Post
Misato was never a "bad girl" (what do you mean, slut?)

Asuka is actually very anti-social, even more in the movie (kicking random people and never befriending Hikari. Then again, why were they BFF in the series? Idunno)
I apologize if I can't capture what he means there, but I'll attempt to explain.

Throughout the original series Misato constantly tried to be a mother to Shinji, but ultimately fails in the end.

This can be seen in a certain episode where he tries to console Shinji and she says that "this is all I can do to console you" or something like that while grabbing his hand. It is implied that Misato is giving her body to him. It is reaffirms that Misato was only ever really able to connect with people physically. In giving her body to Shinji, she'd be able to make that emotional connection to Shinji and help him feel better.

This is again seen in EoE, when she kisses Shinji and says something like "we'll do the rest later."

Basically Misato is more of a physical being, and she was able to validate herself physically with Kaji in particular through sex. Perhaps this is why she can be said to be a "bad girl."

Regarding Asuka... She was just being a tsundere in the movie. It was laughable really. There was no reasons given for why she was always alone really. We don't understand any of her personal struggles. That's why many people criticize this Asuka as a typical shallow/insecure/angsty adolescent girl.

Last edited by Reckoner; 2010-05-30 at 18:19.
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Old 2010-05-30, 18:27   Link #2065
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Regarding Asuka... She was just being a tsundere in the movie. It was laughable really. There was no reasons given for why she was always alone really. We don't understand any of her personal struggles. That's why many people criticize this Asuka as a typical shallow/insecure/angsty adolescent girl.
Neither did we understand the characters until the end of the series so I suspect we'll have to wait till the last 2 movies to get answers.
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Old 2010-05-30, 18:42   Link #2066
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Neither did we understand the characters until the end of the series so I suspect we'll have to wait till the last 2 movies to get answers.
Good point. I think the second half of the series tends to overshadow the first half in a lot of peoples' minds. The psychological torment (and the subsequent "unpeeling" of the characters' mental states) didn't begin in earnest until episode 20... So yeah, we've got plenty of time left to rip everyone's head open and see what makes them tick...
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Old 2010-05-30, 18:49   Link #2067
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Neither did we understand the characters until the end of the series so I suspect we'll have to wait till the last 2 movies to get answers.
I'll give you that. But this Asuka still ACTS very differently. The old Asuka never would've entered a cooking feud with Rei... Never would've opened up to Misato like she did in the elevator. Never would have consciously slept on Shinji's bed.

But I'll wait and see until the next movies to pass judgement on this new Asuka from an objective stand point.
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Old 2010-05-30, 18:59   Link #2068
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I'll give you that. But this Asuka still ACTS very differently. The old Asuka never would've entered a cooking feud with Rei... Never would've opened up to Misato like she did in the elevator. Never would have consciously slept on Shinji's bed.
Indeed, thats the whole point. Despite the difference in the characters the end result is still the end of the word.

Many fans of the original show always wondered if Shinji just had a backbone, if the pilots were more stable, if they were more emotionally "advance", would the show have ended differently.

The movies finally answer this question with a definitive NO. In fact, ironically, making the pilots more stable, more happy, more understanding of their own emotions actually sped up the (almost) end of the world.

Hence, no matter what Shinji does he can NOT advance.


Rebuild isn't trying to use the same characters with new graphics, its purposefully changing the characters to prove that it was not the massive flaws in our hero's personalities that caused the world to end (as some thought at the end of the original series). Even if you made Asuka a less bitchy, more kind girl, Rei more emotional, and Shinji have a backbone it actually SPEEDS UP the end of the world.
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Old 2010-05-30, 19:14   Link #2069
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Indeed, thats the whole point. Despite the difference in the characters the end result is still the end of the word.

Many fans of the original show always wondered if Shinji just had a backbone, if the pilots were more stable, if they were more emotionally "advance", would the show have ended differently.

The movies finally answer this question with a definitive NO. In fact, ironically, making the pilots more stable, more happy, more understanding of their own emotions actually sped up the (almost) end of the world.

Hence, no matter what Shinji does he can NOT advance.


Rebuild isn't trying to use the same characters with new graphics, its purposefully changing the characters to prove that it was not the massive flaws in our hero's personalities that caused the world to end (as some thought at the end of the original series). Even if you made Asuka a less bitchy, more kind girl, Rei more emotional, and Shinji have a backbone it actually SPEEDS UP the end of the world.
To be fair, it's not just the characters' personalities that speed things up...having a shapeshifting, Eva-eating Zeruel also helps quite a bit.

The Angels here are much stronger, and so are the Evas, which ups the danger quotient for the earth's survival quite a bit. I get the feeling that nearly ANY clash between them could've caused the end of the world.
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Old 2010-05-30, 19:20   Link #2070
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LOL, good point Yot-chan.

The world doesn't need a 3rd impact to end, the collateral damage from the Angel vs Eva fights could very well do so as well.
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Old 2010-05-30, 22:07   Link #2071
orion
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LOL, good point Yot-chan.

The world doesn't need a 3rd impact to end, the collateral damage from the Angel vs Eva fights could very well do so as well.
Isn't the blood from the Angels what killed off the marine life anyways?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdeath View Post
Indeed, thats the whole point. Despite the difference in the characters the end result is still the end of the word.

Many fans of the original show always wondered if Shinji just had a backbone, if the pilots were more stable, if they were more emotionally "advance", would the show have ended differently.

The movies finally answer this question with a definitive NO. In fact, ironically, making the pilots more stable, more happy, more understanding of their own emotions actually sped up the (almost) end of the world.

Hence, no matter what Shinji does he can NOT advance.
I disagree. Shinji and Rei did advance. Asuka opened up. The current world is going to end no matter what anyone does because they are fighting. It's the shape of the next one that's what the real fight is about to me. Both sides need to chill. Hopefully, they can live in peace in the next one.
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Old 2010-05-30, 22:21   Link #2072
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Ha.. so much of the proxy fights here are about THIS IS MY EVANGELION, WHY ISN'T REBUILD MY EVANGELION, WHY ISN'T REBUILD WHAT I WANT?

WAHHHH WAHHHH

I must've watched it 40 times so it's MY EVANGELION, WAHHH WAHHHH


It's all good, Anno was in a lose-lose situation no matter how he made Eva Rebuild and so long as he's doing what he wants I'm cool with watching what he puts out next.
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Old 2010-05-31, 00:15   Link #2073
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its only healthy for teenage boy
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Old 2010-05-31, 05:39   Link #2074
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Ooh, that memorable scene from EoE. Thankfully replaced by Sadamoto in the manga.

I know this is a detail that people might have glossed over when were focused on liking Rebuild vis a vis the liking the TV series, but was anyone awed by the fact that Shinji pretty much ripped off his seat restraint with his bare hands?

Okay, the laws of nature were pretty much being ground into dust at that point at the nexus of Impact, but that really surprised me, as it was such a large chunk of metal, and Shinji is still very much stick thin.
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Old 2010-05-31, 07:33   Link #2075
RisArk
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Oh, speaking of the manga....

Manga in my opinion is the far "worse" when people complain about changes. Shinji's more GAR when he Big O Showtimes Eva unit 01 and Gendo has an AT field and says "Fuck God, he's my bitch."

I like it, but between Rebuild and the Manga, they've done worse.
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Old 2010-05-31, 09:57   Link #2076
orion
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Ooh, that memorable scene from EoE. Thankfully replaced by Sadamoto in the manga.

I know this is a detail that people might have glossed over when were focused on liking Rebuild vis a vis the liking the TV series, but was anyone awed by the fact that Shinji pretty much ripped off his seat restraint with his bare hands?

Okay, the laws of nature were pretty much being ground into dust at that point at the nexus of Impact, but that really surprised me, as it was such a large chunk of metal, and Shinji is still very much stick thin.
Yeah, I was pretty much in awe. Losing a layer of skin retrieving Rei and not flinching topped it for me.
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Old 2010-05-31, 11:24   Link #2077
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Its called adrenaline. It can make skinny boys lift cars. It was impressive but considering the life and death situation he was in and high stress he was under, it didn't seem too unrealistic to me.
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Last edited by bigdeath; 2010-05-31 at 11:45.
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Old 2010-05-31, 11:38   Link #2078
RisArk
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Maybe that's why Gendo had to triple-cuff him after the Bardiel incident.

I'm mean okay, handcuffing is fine but three? And his feet if I'm remembering right.
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Old 2010-05-31, 12:59   Link #2079
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Well the manga is pretty much a joke. So that's not saying much lmao.

I guess the new Shinji is superhuman though.
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Old 2010-05-31, 14:06   Link #2080
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Ok having finally gotten the time to watch 2.0 and digest it a bit (curse you calculus!) I must say the questions I have at the end of this one are significantly larger in number than the questions I had at the end of the first one.

On 1.0 the changes were subtle and few in-between. A couple of minor details were changed, some characters had slightly different nuances in behavior, the background has some very important changes that we were only barely made aware and as such the end result was indistinguishable from the tv series up to that point. The only major question inducing moment was what happened in the end with Kaworu on the moon.

Now 2.0 made me question a lot of my assumptions and raised even more questions regarding the events of the movie and the characters. Now I'm still in the camp that believes this is a sequel of sorts. Either in a far future after EoE or in a reboot triggered by a slightly different take on those events I keep being led to believe this is in fact a direct sequel to the events of the TV Show. However I almost wrote this theory of mine as wrong when we were told (via the field-trip) why the water is red in the movies. However when Kaoworu comes in Unit-06 in the end and says he'll make Shinji happy this time the theory came rushing back.

But talking about if this is a sequel or not is kind of moot at this point so I'll discuss the major issue I (and many others apparently) have with the movie and that is the new character of Asuka (coupled with Mary actually). What really bugs me about what they did to Asuka's character is that I actually understand why they cut her screen-time and character development. Like I said about minor details were and most of the characters had slightly different behaviors in rebuild when compared to the TV Series so it's only natural that the consequences of their actions change in correspondence.

Spoiler for Events of 2.0:


Overall I have to say that I didn't particularly enjoy the changes to Asuka's character but I understand why they were made. They needed to introduce Mary to the plot and also get enough time to flesh out the Shinji-Rei relationship since that last fact was the driving point behind the climax in the final scenes of the movie. It's one of those concessions they had to make because of the movie format that could have been better taken care of with the larger time-frame of a tv series for example but then we wouldn't have had the high-budget animation we've been having so far so it's a decent enough compromise if they can flesh out Asuka better in the next movie.

There are so many interesting bits and pieces that I could go on to write a full dissertation about but that's exactly one of the things that always made eva such an interesting series for me. The questions, the lack of clear-cut answers and explanations... that's all part of the charm that keeps Eva as one of the most interesting creations I've seen my entire life in the anime medium and as such I truly enjoyed this second movie and I'll be waiting for the third with high hopes.
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