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Old 2010-05-31, 03:54   Link #7461
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbitres View Post
... This may sound naive but... I actually expected better from the Israeli soldiers.
read that part of the sky news report that says WHY they opened fire

Quote:
They opened fire after passengers attacked them with axes and knives, said Israeli private channel 10 television.
six israeli soldiers were injured during the event
not like they just killed people for the lulz

besides, this entire flotila was nothing more then an act of provocation from day one
they spent several months organizing this shipment of 10,000 tons of aid (allegedly) because they didn't want it to go through the proper channels (those that go through israel)
meanwhile, the "proper channels" deliver 15,000 tons of aid into gaza every week
and both israel AND Egypt already offered to deliver it through those channels (and the flotila refused)

in other words, they delayed a small shipment of aid, that is smaller then what gets delivered every week, for months, just to try and get it into gaza in ways other then through the israeli's
which means they are either retarded
or their main concern, is not a humanitarian one
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Old 2010-05-31, 04:24   Link #7462
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Technically, yes. If the person knows little and reads nothing. Like people who claim that Japanese schools teaching diluted history is a lie.

You win the argument by presenting proof or logic, but best if both are presented.
Actually that was posted as rhetorical question of sarcasm, but I reiterate the problem of impersonality where you can't physically and personally refute and/or confirm your argument over teh internetz.
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Old 2010-05-31, 04:41   Link #7463
Azuma Denton
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Just as i thought. Leader of Islamic Country has spoken.

Iran President has spoke that assault is inhumane.
Palestina President has spoke that Israel is conducting an slaughter.


This will be use as a momentum for Islamic country to put a pressure against Israel.
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Old 2010-05-31, 04:45   Link #7464
Nosauz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
read that part of the sky news report that says WHY they opened fire



six israeli soldiers were injured during the event
not like they just killed people for the lulz

besides, this entire flotila was nothing more then an act of provocation from day one
they spent several months organizing this shipment of 10,000 tons of aid (allegedly) because they didn't want it to go through the proper channels (those that go through israel)
meanwhile, the "proper channels" deliver 15,000 tons of aid into gaza every week
and both israel AND Egypt already offered to deliver it through those channels (and the flotila refused)

in other words, they delayed a small shipment of aid, that is smaller then what gets delivered every week, for months, just to try and get it into gaza in ways other then through the israeli's
which means they are either retarded
or their main concern, is not a humanitarian one
YEAH for speculation, and complete diahrea of the mouth/hand? Again what PROOF can you bring to the table? This world is a proof based one, not one that relies on feelings or random guesses. You know so what if under the weekly allotment of aid? 10,000 nearly doubling their monthly allowed aid is really that bad? If your gonna wear the tinfoil hat you should ease up on the pressure because I feel like your mistaking opinion for fact.
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Old 2010-05-31, 04:56   Link #7465
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
Again what PROOF can you bring to the table? This world is a proof based one, not one that relies on feelings or random guesses. You know so what if under the weekly allotment of aid? 10,000 nearly doubling their monthly allowed aid is really that bad?
*blatently ignoring the rudeness in the commet*

they spent months organizing the SHIPMENT of said aid.
and it TOOK months to try and deliver, simply because they wanted it to go outside israeli controlled routes.
it could have been delivered days ago if they accepted either Israeli OR Egyptian offers to deliver it for them, but they insisted on delivering it themselves through that particular method
so whats more important to them then ?
delivering the aid to the people of gaza, or doing so outside israeli controlled routes ?

as for the "speculation" part
they repeatedly stated that the goal of the flotilla was to break the blockade on gaza
hell, the movement is called FREE GAZA
its not speculating about someone's motives when they flat out TELL you what they are after
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Old 2010-05-31, 05:23   Link #7466
Nosauz
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yes because aid drops from the relief aid tree.... come on not every cause to secure and procure aid in the speed it takes an industrial nation. W/E there is no rational, again all you do is say random things with out any sort of citation. The thing is burden of proof lies on you because I'm not the one making outrageous accusations.
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Old 2010-05-31, 05:30   Link #7467
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
yes because aid drops from the relief aid tree.... come on not every cause to secure and procure aid in the speed it takes an industrial nation. W/E there is no rational, again all you do is say random things with out any sort of citation. The thing is burden of proof lies on you because I'm not the one making outrageous accusations.
its not the "AID" that took them time to arrange
its the shipping methods.

and no, the burden of proof does NOT lie with me, because they already STATED it themselves

Quote:
"We are determined. We are going to bust through the Israeli navy," Qashoo said. But "we are not seeking any confrontation ... we are simply a humanitarian mission."
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/me...est/index.html
its lower down the page

as for the "not seeking any confrontation" bit
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3896545,00.html
on this site there's a video attached
near the start it clearly shows a "peace activist" (in an orange life jacket) attacking a soldier with an iron rod after the soldier just repelled on to the ship
so clearly they were just being peaceful when the israeli's brutally attacked them for no provocation
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Old 2010-05-31, 06:05   Link #7468
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
as for the "not seeking any confrontation" bit
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3896545,00.html
on this site there's a video attached
near the start it clearly shows a "peace activist" (in an orange life jacket) attacking a soldier with an iron rod after the soldier just repelled on to the ship
so clearly they were just being peaceful when the israeli's brutally attacked them for no provocation
Please familiarise yourself with naval defense procedures, one which which is called V.B.S.S.

Boarding and searching ships are part of security procedures. So too bad for the poor guy who attacked them.
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Old 2010-05-31, 06:09   Link #7469
yezhanquan
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Israel is living on borrowed time, no doubt about that. If it thinks it can go on unilaterally, let it. When the shit hits the fan, the crater will be big.
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Old 2010-05-31, 06:09   Link #7470
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Please familiarise yourself with naval defense procedures, one which which is called V.B.S.S.

Boarding and searching ships are part of security procedures. So too bad for the poor guy who attacked them.
i WAS being sarcastic you know

Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Israel is living on borrowed time, no doubt about that. If it thinks it can go on unilaterally, let it. When the shit hits the fan, the crater will be big.
and you base this on... what exactly ?
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Old 2010-05-31, 06:11   Link #7471
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Mideast is living on borrowed time, no doubt about that. If it thinks it can go on unilaterally, let it. When the shit hits the fan, the crater will be big.
Fixed. I mean, take a look at that place! It is all screwed up just because the world depends on them for oil!
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-05-31, 06:13   Link #7472
yezhanquan
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@blade: demographics. I'm sure the Internet knows more about that than I do.

Both SH and I come from a place which has been compared to Israel. So, we do have an inkling or two on the sense of being surrounded.

@SH: Amen to that correction.
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Old 2010-05-31, 06:21   Link #7473
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
@balde: demographics. I'm sure the Internet knows more about that than I do.

Both SH and I come from a place which has been compared to Israel. So, we do have an inkling or two on the sense of being surrounded.
what demographics ?

while i'm not exactly sure about the details of Singapore, i do know that in 1948 you had 600,000 jews in israel surrounded by 150 million arabs
60 years have passed, and now there are almost 6 MILLION jews in israel
the demographics were even MORE against israel in 1948, and its only became larger and more powerful with time
its army is the strongest in the mid east, with a defence alliance with the US
its industry's only expending (it just got into OCED this month)
and its GDP per capita is practically at European levels

from where i'm looking, israel's existence NOW, seems infinity more likely then it did in 1948
and i'm not really sure why so many people seem to think its existence now is on "borrowed time"
who's going to end it exactly ?
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Old 2010-05-31, 06:25   Link #7474
yezhanquan
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Most of those 6 million came from outside immigration, I add. Can that be sustained?

Sustainability is the key. I don't deny the stats. It's like the US or Japan. Glitzy? Hell yes. But, is that the result of new growth or are they munching on past harvests?

I don't know. Perhaps a Jared Diamond-style collapse scenario? The place is dry as dust, for one.
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Old 2010-05-31, 06:30   Link #7475
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Most of those 6 million came from outside immigration, I add. Can that be sustained?

Sustainability is the key. I don't deny the stats. It's like the US or Japan. Glitzy? Hell yes. But, is that the result of new growth or are they munching on past harvests?
again
who's going to END them ?
the palestinians ? (who are considerably less in number, and INFINITELY less in actual power)
the other arab states surrounding it ? (two of whom already gave up on that notion, and the remaining two being terrified of conflict with it)

you say demographics, but you don't exactly point out how demographics would have any effect
it can't be political, since arabs who aren't israeli civis can't vote
and military its irrelevent, since there has ALWAYS been more a huge gap in population sizes, and it never made a difference before when it was much larger

Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
I don't know. Perhaps a Jared Diamond-style collapse scenario? The place is dry as dust, for one.
and that means what exactly ?
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Old 2010-05-31, 06:34   Link #7476
yezhanquan
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Fortunately (or unfortunately), the Arab states are in worse states (Amen to SH once again). So yeah, probably a Diamond collapse scenario.
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Old 2010-05-31, 08:13   Link #7477
MihawkXGP
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Attacked in the middle of the night. Carrying live weapons on board. Just what the fuck did those retarded Israelis think would fucking happen, when they attacked a ship in the middle of the night?

This is typical Israeli thugish behavior. They routinely fire on Palestinian fisherman, they show absolutely no regard for the lives of Palestinians or those that support them.
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Old 2010-05-31, 08:15   Link #7478
MihawkXGP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
read that part of the sky news report that says WHY they opened fire



six israeli soldiers were injured during the event
not like they just killed people for the lulz

besides, this entire flotila was nothing more then an act of provocation from day one
they spent several months organizing this shipment of 10,000 tons of aid (allegedly) because they didn't want it to go through the proper channels (those that go through israel)
meanwhile, the "proper channels" deliver 15,000 tons of aid into gaza every week
and both israel AND Egypt already offered to deliver it through those channels (and the flotila refused)

in other words, they delayed a small shipment of aid, that is smaller then what gets delivered every week, for months, just to try and get it into gaza in ways other then through the israeli's
which means they are either retarded
or their main concern, is not a humanitarian one
15,000 tons of aid which is not anywhere near enough.

This Flotitlla was carrying stuff the Palestinians need , that Israel is not allwing to enter Gaza. So even if they had gone through proper channels, most of the stuff wouldn't haev gotten in.

It is unacceptable that they prevent Cement, and other valuable building material that Gazan's need to rebuild the Gaza strip after that massacre Israel carried out in Dec 08/ Jan 09.

Israel had no business attacking a ship in International waters. Their seige of Gaza is illegal under International Law.
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Old 2010-05-31, 08:21   Link #7479
yezhanquan
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@Mihawk: Israel doesn't care about international law. It's "my way, or the high way". The oppressed has become the oppressor.
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Old 2010-05-31, 08:29   Link #7480
MihawkXGP
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Yes. I think that is pretty much a well established fact by now. Nothing has yet been done over the Goldstone report, i can bet nothing will be done here. This clearly sends a message to Israel, that they can behave however the fuck they want, and get away with it. If you can get away with war crimes and crimes against humanity, then we might as well just give up hope, that any justice will be done for these 19 martyrs of human rights.
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