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Old 2010-06-03, 23:29   Link #7661
Azuma Denton
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Obama Cancels Trip to Indonesia

He cancels his visit to Indonesia and Australia for the second time.
Many islamic extremist and "lazy" college student in Indonesia will be delighted to see this info.
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Old 2010-06-04, 00:57   Link #7662
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
You're forgetting that once a loan is "upside down" (house worth less on the market than the loan value), the banks did not wait for the owner to "walk away" - they foreclosed automatically and evicted the owners even if they wanted to stay. Many owners were desperately working out arrangements only to have one arm of the bank ignore what the other was doing and resell the house anyway. Many banks were only stalled when owners starting figuring out that the banks COULD NOT figure out who "had possession of the title" because it had been bundled with thousands of other loans and sold as buckets of shares throughout the world. At this point, the judges started getting cranky at the banks... still not happening enough though.

The robber barons keep looting away at the top-end while everyone "not in the club" is going to be left to live with and clean up the mess. Assuming we aren't headed for a permanent vaporization of the middle class by their shenanigans and the US collapses into a modern form of feudalism.
I've never heard of banks foreclosing on homes just because they're now worth less than the loan that was taken out on them. Do you have a link for this Vexx?

Because if this were true, ant not some mistake, the amount of Foreclosures would EXPLODE 100x easily.
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Old 2010-06-04, 01:36   Link #7663
saya_leviathan
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Finance chief Kan to become Japan's prime minister

Quote:
TOKYO (AFP) - – Japan's lower house of parliament on Friday voted in former finance minister Naoto Kan as prime minister, replacing Yukio Hatoyama who resigned for mishandling a dispute over a US base.

Kan was supported by 313 lawmakers in an election with 477 valid votes.

Lower house speaker Takahiro Yokomichi then said: "As a result, this house has decided to appoint Mr Naoto Kan as prime minister."

The upper house confirmed Kan as premier with 123 out 237 votes.

Kan, a 63-year-old former civic activist, was also deputy prime minister in the centre-left government that came to power last year in a landslide election that ended half a century of almost non-stop conservative rule.

"My first job is to rebuild the country, and to create a party in which all members can stand up together and say with confidence, 'we can do it!'" a smiling Kan said in brief comments immediately after the party vote.

Kan said his priorities would be to revive the lacklustre economy, restore confidence in his party and root out money politics after the scandals that hit Hatoyama, who received undeclared funds from his millionaire mother.

Later Friday, the new premier may announce his cabinet which pundits expect will retain many of Hatoyama's ministers, including Foreign Minister Katsuya Okada, a potential rival who in the end backed Kan's candidacy.
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Old 2010-06-04, 01:48   Link #7664
Nosauz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Sticks and stones nosauz. Just stating what I've seen happen far too often. California had one of the biggest increases in home prices of any area in the country. It also has some of the highest foreclosure rates. Obviously there were some who didn't bite more than they could chew, but I would wager my supercharged corvette that a majority did.

The majority of Americans are not the sharpest tools in the shed, and are not exactly known for being responsible either. Near half don't even pay Federal Income Tax. A very high percentage get some kind of Governmental assistance.

Many have walked away from their homes strictly because the home is now not worth what it was when they purchased it. Rather than sticking it out and paying the loan off, and waiting for housing to gradually go up in time, they would rather walk away from it. Friend of mine from HS had debated that after buying a bloody condo for 320k and now it's worth half. I haven't talked to him since he told me his plans as I had lost all respect for him.

Since when were homes suppose to be a short term investment? The fact is, you don't lose money on your house until you try and sell it. Once upon a time, people stayed in the same home for 20-40+ years. They weren't changing homes every 5-10 years like what is so often nowadays.
again claiming causation when you have little to know proof. Because people are on government assistance then they must be fiscially irresponsible. I really don't understand if you are trolling or just plain don't understand the basic underlying principals of statistics. The reason why people don't live in their homes for 40+ years anymore is because in one persons working lifetime the tend to change jobs 3-4 times in that period of time. In a world where the lowest of the low can be cut to boost quarterly earnings how can you expect people to maintain their jobs long enough to stay in a house for 40+ years. Again all you do is say, poor people, rabble rabble, and nothing else.
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Old 2010-06-04, 02:35   Link #7665
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
I've never heard of banks foreclosing on homes just because they're now worth less than the loan that was taken out on them. Do you have a link for this Vexx?

Because if this were true, ant not some mistake, the amount of Foreclosures would EXPLODE 100x easily.
The reason it didn't explode is that the government stepped in and "suggested" that banks undergo loan modification programs with home owners. The situation most often arose when people had second "equity loans" (as we were all encouraged to get to "use our homes like banks"). The value of the home was underwater and the equity loan holders would force a short sale or forced foreclosure. (note: many of these were not "banks" but simply loan/mortgage companies).
Most of the links I can find with a few moments of google are about the programs the government has tossed in to try avoid the explosion. But here's some:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Bank-of-Am...ge?&id=4104980
http://www.governmentrefinanceassistance.com/
http://www.guidespot.com/guides/cant...ortgage_upside

The last one discusses the plight and possible solutions of homeowners who, for example, drop from two-income earners to one income-earner. Their stocks and investments also tanked (typically dropping 30-50%).
The loan companies won't let them refinance to a lower mortgage rate because the existing loan is upside down. They're stuck with a house payment of 50-80% of their new level of income and the spiral of financial worth being siphoned away commences.
As for finding a new second income, average unemployment is stretching from six months to well over a year for most middle class "white collar" workers. There are job sectors that have sustained permanent job losses. There's no work programs, there's no retraining programs (retrain to what?), companies aren't hiring the overqualified. The remainder of their assets have diminished value and it doesn't take long to zero those out trying to keep up.

Basically, the "big boys" dropped a nuclear finance bomb on the middle class after spending a couple of decades encouraging them to all go stand out in the open.
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Old 2010-06-04, 05:06   Link #7666
MrTerrorist
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Tiananmen leader's 'diary' revealed
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Old 2010-06-04, 07:40   Link #7667
Mystique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saya_leviathan View Post
Seriously?
Methinks Japan take this modern day seppuku thing a liiiiiittle too seriously.
One major dispute and 'okay, he's gots to go'.
Hasn't been a full year for the new gov and there's a new PM.

Some things never change...
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Old 2010-06-04, 10:55   Link #7668
ChainLegacy
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I don't understand this aspect of Japanese culture. Do people in Japan truly accept the notion that their own gain is second to society's? I'm not saying it is a bad thing, it is just hard to believe coming from America.
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Old 2010-06-04, 12:03   Link #7669
SeijiSensei
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I don't find it surprising that Hatoyama fell; what I find more surprising is how poor a politician he turned out to be. He set himself up for failure on the Okinawa issue, and he managed to get involved in shady financial dealings after the DPJ's victory suggested the Japanese public had had their fill of corrupt back-room politics.

Kan seems a breath of fresh air in Japanese politics even if he's older than me. He has a rather non-traditional resume and isn't the offspring of another politician.

Oh well, if they run out of options, Koizumi can always swoop in.
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Old 2010-06-04, 12:31   Link #7670
MrTerrorist
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People power at Moffett funeral
Good for them. Show them violence will not intimidate the people of Belfast.

World 'watching England fans in South Africa'
So how long will the English fans behave until it's "hooligan time" again?

Engineers defend World Cup football amid criticism
Heh, whiners.
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Old 2010-06-04, 13:17   Link #7671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
I don't understand this aspect of Japanese culture. Do people in Japan truly accept the notion that their own gain is second to society's? I'm not saying it is a bad thing, it is just hard to believe coming from America.
American has one of the most individualist culture in the history of the earth. if you look around many other culture value the society good more then individual achievement.
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Old 2010-06-04, 13:33   Link #7672
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
I don't understand this aspect of Japanese culture. Do people in Japan truly accept the notion that their own gain is second to society's? I'm not saying it is a bad thing, it is just hard to believe coming from America.
The two cultures could learn a lot from each other? People (not just Americans) tend to be "provincial" - they have a hard time grasping that other people may have fundamentally different ideas about what is important.

Hatoyama ... I actually somewhat liked the guy but he was toast after breaking his promise to do something NEW AND DIFFERENT about the Okinawan US base. It sounds like Kan is being more pragmatic for now. Its kind of a shame because most of our friction comes from poorly behaved antics of a few US servicemen. More cultural training and stomping down hard on miscreants without delay would go farther...
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Old 2010-06-04, 14:21   Link #7673
JMvS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
I don't understand this aspect of Japanese culture. Do people in Japan truly accept the notion that their own gain is second to society's? I'm not saying it is a bad thing, it is just hard to believe coming from America.
Well as explained above, it's America that is seen as a rather unique case.
For instance here in most of Europe, the concept of one putting it's personal gain before common interest is almost universally seen as selfish if not antisocial behavior, similar to a gangster. Conversely, shared gain and social advances are glorified.


On another subject: Space X launch of Falcon 9 rocket successful.
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Last edited by JMvS; 2010-06-04 at 14:49.
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Old 2010-06-04, 15:07   Link #7674
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Many banks were only stalled when owners starting figuring out that the banks COULD NOT figure out who "had possession of the title" because it had been bundled with thousands of other loans and sold as buckets of shares throughout the world. At this point, the judges started getting cranky at the banks... still not happening enough though.
Saying that they were "stalled" is a bit of an understatement.

Allot of these banks haven't been able to provide this physical documentation for up to a year now. With all the places that went belly up after the crash, it wouldn't be surprising to think that there are boxes full of these things that just got tossed out with nobody keeping track of what they were or where they went.
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Old 2010-06-04, 17:29   Link #7675
ChainLegacy
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I didn't mean to come off as saying the US is the 'norm.' I actually learned about the Geert Hofstede Analysis which ranks America among the highest in individualism (behind Australia). Japan is, as expected, among the lowest in individualism. I just find the self-sacrificial quality of Japanese culture almost alien, based on my own experience.
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Old 2010-06-04, 22:57   Link #7676
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
The reason it didn't explode is that the government stepped in and "suggested" that banks undergo loan modification programs with home owners. The situation most often arose when people had second "equity loans" (as we were all encouraged to get to "use our homes like banks"). The value of the home was underwater and the equity loan holders would force a short sale or forced foreclosure. (note: many of these were not "banks" but simply loan/mortgage companies).
Most of the links I can find with a few moments of google are about the programs the government has tossed in to try avoid the explosion. But here's some:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Bank-of-Am...ge?&id=4104980
http://www.governmentrefinanceassistance.com/
http://www.guidespot.com/guides/cant...ortgage_upside

The last one discusses the plight and possible solutions of homeowners who, for example, drop from two-income earners to one income-earner. Their stocks and investments also tanked (typically dropping 30-50%).
The loan companies won't let them refinance to a lower mortgage rate because the existing loan is upside down. They're stuck with a house payment of 50-80% of their new level of income and the spiral of financial worth being siphoned away commences.
As for finding a new second income, average unemployment is stretching from six months to well over a year for most middle class "white collar" workers. There are job sectors that have sustained permanent job losses. There's no work programs, there's no retraining programs (retrain to what?), companies aren't hiring the overqualified. The remainder of their assets have diminished value and it doesn't take long to zero those out trying to keep up.

Basically, the "big boys" dropped a nuclear finance bomb on the middle class after spending a couple of decades encouraging them to all go stand out in the open.
I'm sorry Vexx, but nowhere in there did I read where people were losing their homes and going into foreclosure, just because their homes were now worth less than the amount of the loan. You had to be unable to make your mortgage payments over a certain number of months in order for banks/lending institutions to be able to start the foreclosure precedings. As long as you stayed relatively current on your monthly payments, you were in no danger of losing your home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
American has one of the most individualist culture in the history of the earth. if you look around many other culture value the society good more then individual achievement.
I've always loved that fact about America. I have no problem with Europe and America being different in this regard. Let us succeed or fail on our own values. I do not wish to see America fundamentally changed. Though some small change is good, the foundation has worked very very well for us these past 200+ years.
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Old 2010-06-04, 23:32   Link #7677
yezhanquan
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May the best system win.

On the mortgage system in the States, is it anything like the credit system where you can pay a minimum sum (and watch the debt snowball), or you can pay more per installment and end up paying less interest?
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Old 2010-06-05, 00:09   Link #7678
Joojoobees
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Man shoots self in testicles, causing fear, silence
Quote:
Those familiar with guns wonder why someone would carry a loaded pistol in his sweatpants.
Others might wonder why he needed to carry a loaded gun into a hardware store.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ooting04m.html
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Old 2010-06-05, 02:35   Link #7679
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
I'm sorry Vexx, but nowhere in there did I read where people were losing their homes and going into foreclosure, just because their homes were now worth less than the amount of the loan. You had to be unable to make your mortgage payments over a certain number of months in order for banks/lending institutions to be able to start the foreclosure precedings. As long as you stayed relatively current on your monthly payments, you were in no danger of losing your home.
It wasn't the primary loan holder that would trigger the foreclosure, it was the equity loan holders (second loan) that would force foreclosure once the primary loan was underwater (negative equity -> zero collateral). One of my close friends is a VP at a small regional bank. Last year he was always talking about losing loans to foreclosure with homeowners they were trying to work with. The homeowner would get torpedoed by "equity loan mortgage" holders whom the homeowner had taken a second loan with (e.g. to remodel or do repairs). No collateral -> they wanted the balance of the loan in full immediately. Homeowner was in no position to fork it out and equity loan people foreclosed.
The "second loan" torpedo is actually mentioned in a couple of the links - if I find a specific article, I'll link it.

Last edited by Vexx; 2010-06-05 at 17:47.
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Old 2010-06-05, 05:58   Link #7680
Mystique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joojoobees View Post
Man shoots self in testicles, causing fear, silence

Others might wonder why he needed to carry a loaded gun into a hardware store.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ooting04m.html
That should be in the funny news thread, as I got a good laugh at that.
It's nature's way of telling him 'no kids please' xD
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