[Manga] Manga Plot & Story Discussion

[zebra]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

Spoiler for ending:

No what i liked was that the original anime ending wasn't a totally happily ever after ending. People can talk crap all day along about the alternate universe bs but they had the right idea for the ending, But it's execution was not flawless.

As much as I like the first series and ends with a bitter touch .. no that ending was bull from my perspective. It's my main qualm with the first series. It doesn't fit the established story.

I'm very satisfied with this ending because it falls in line with everything the series was about. It stuck to it's themes, instead of throwing them out just for the hell of it. But

Spoiler for 108:

I immediatly thought about how Ed transmuted himself in the first series to save Al when he went to the gate in 108.

I also loved how it was pointed out, that Ed can't just sacrifice himself, because that would place Al in a hell of a loneliness.

Well, your mileage my vary, but I loved this end and the message and feeling it delivered. Just my opinion

[Kirarakim]

I am sorry but the ending of this series was not happily ever after either. Maybe people who think that should re-read it

Spoiler:

Just because Ed and Winry find some happiness and get married does not mean everything is perfect. While the ending is hopeful the characters are still working to build a better future.

Ed no longer has his alchemy ability and he has to get by with that
Ed and Al are traveling around the world to try to find a way to help people's whose lives were destroyed with alchemy (Nina call back)
Roy and Scar are working to solve the Ishval issue
Grumann is working to fix things in Central
Mrs. Bradley is raising Selim (who is still a homunculus)
Ling still has an entire country to look after

In fact minus the ridiculous other world ending and not caring about Winry the manga actually has some similarities with the end of the first series. In that even after the final battle the characters still have to work to better their world. Oh no the manga didn't need to tell us things are not "perfect" like the first anime did.

[BetoJR]

Actually, the "not caring about Winry" bit has always been my biggest pet peeve with the first series. I still love it for what it was, but that has never gone down all that well with me. Also, I wholeheartedly agree that the ending of the manga wasn't all that overly sappy. It was quite in touch with the story overall - even the lack of "closure" to Roy and Risa's relationship. Loved every single moment of this, myself.

[kitten320]

Actually it was a bit too happy... yeh they all are working to make things betetr and all but that's a life. You do all that on constant bases, there is no such thing where you can simply lay down and do nothing especially in politics and militarry.

Spoiler for do we still need them?:

Everyone got what they wanted, the only thing that kinda makes it not so happy is the fact that Izumi still misses her organs and Ed misses his leg... that's basicly the only thing that kept it from being super happy.

P.S. I actually started to like the idea of blind Roy too...

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Also about ages and I am putting this outside a cut because it is not a spoiler. Mei's age was never given in the series. I am not sure why people assume she was a small child just because of her looks. Mei acts much older than a child. There is no way a young child would have been able to do all that Mei accomplished in the series. Most likely she is just very small for her age just like her panda Xiao Mei is extremely small for a panda.

You were not watching enough TV, some kids at age 5 are more clever than those at age 30... one of the basic rules when kids are included.

And that rule is very common in all anime, almost none character looks and acts at the age they are presented. Take same GTO which I like so much, I would never give them 14 in any form. Or same Yoko from Gurren Lagan.

So chances of Mei being around 10 are not that small.

Though I don't see huge problem with that considering that in pic she has to be at least 16 by now... My uncle and aunt had 10 years difference and my mother's friend has about 20 years difference with her husband yet they have two kids...

[Kirarakim]

I guess you missed the part where

Spoiler:

Ed can no longer perform alchemy something that has defined him throughout the series

And so what that they all get what they wanted. That doesn't mean now life is easy for them. And actually they didn't all get what they wanted

Spoiler:

Izumi still cannot bear children, Roy is not the leader of the country, the Chimeras did not get their bodies back yet.

As for Roy getting his eyesight back he lost it so unfairly in the first place. He did not perform human transmutation by his free will.

So chances of Mei being around 10 are not that small.

I think they are very small because we see how young children act in this series. We had Nina and Elicia for that. Mei is an expert alchemist and she traveled on her own to another country. She was obviously a bit older than her appearance indicated. I would say she is no younger than 12. Either way though we were never given her age so I will think what I want and you can think what you want.

[kitten320]

And? Now he will enjoy a peaceful life. It's not like he needs it now and he isn't too depressed about it either. I don't really see huge drama here. I would say Ed ending up in different universe was far more dramatic in the 1st season anime.

I did mention those parts:

Spoiler for 108:

Besides that man is old, Roy will get his place once he dies.

Still problem was sold very easily.

As I said ending is not bad, it does has "not perfect" parts, but still looks happy... a bit too much... its not like I'm bashing it.

[oompa loompa]

Bah it was a little sappy. I don't mind though, to be honest I would've had it no other way. A grand epic has finally come to an end, something thats taken.. what, like 9 years? I'm glad that Arakawa went for a happy ending, tying up the loose knots etc. etc. and having everyone live happily ever after.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by kitten320

And? Now he will enjoy a peaceful life. It's not like he needs it now and he isn't too depressed about it either.

Spoiler:

The series gives no indication that Ed or Al will just sit back and live peaceful lives. They are both traveling the world trying to found ways to fix things the military did with alchemy.

As for Ed not being depressed so what that is just Ed for you he looks on the bright side of things and does not give up. That doesn't mean losing his alchemy ability was not a loss.

I don't really see huge drama here. I would say Ed ending up in different universe was far more dramatic in the 1st season anime.

More dramatic yes but it was also nonsensical and stupid.

Spoiler:

Besides that man is old, Roy will get his place once he dies.

Perhaps but the future for Roy is still uncertain

Still problem was sold very easily.

Well maybe if you ignore how hard these characters worked throughout the series.

As I said ending is not bad, it does has "not perfect" parts, but still looks happy... a bit too much... its not like I'm bashing it.

I am not saying the ending is necessarily perfect either but I don't see why an ending is good or bad because of its overall tone.

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

I think they are very small because we see how young children act in this series. We had Nina and Elicia for that. Mei is an expert alchemist and she traveled on her own to another country. She was obviously a bit older than her appearance indicated. I would say she is no younger than 12. Either way though we were never given her age so I will think what I want and you can think what you want.

-points at TV- like if there are not normal kids too.

Actually forget TV, take real life. There are kids at age 10 who are smarter than those in their 30s. Exceptions of rules.

Mei might be one of them. Besides it looked like her life was hard, children mature really quickly in such circumstances.

[zebra]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Spoiler:

The series gives no indication that Ed or Al will just sit back and live peaceful lives. They are both traveling the world trying to found ways to fix things the military did with alchemy.

As for Ed not being depressed so what that is just Ed for you he looks on the bright side of things and does not give up. That doesn't mean losing his alchemy ability was not a loss.

Huh?

Spoiler for well better use than spoil I guess?:

Well yes it was a loss. But I thought Ed saying "I was it's puppet" (with a mile) made it clear it's really not such a big loss at all and in a way it even freed him. It's not what he needs.

Also he likes his automail leg As hinted at XD

And how does he need it for research and traveling? There are no superhuman people hunting him anymore

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by zebra

Huh?

Spoiler for well better use than spoil I guess?:

Well yes it was a loss. But I thought Ed saying "I was it's puppet" (with a mile) made it clear it's really not such a big loss at all and in a way it even freed him. It's not what he needs.

Also he likes his automail leg As hinted at XD

And how does he need it for research and traveling? There are no superhuman people hunting him anymore

Spoiler:

I never said he needed alchemy to function or that he would need it on his travels.

Yes I am sure that he can get by just fine without alchemy. However I think you are misinterpreting what Ed said when he said "I was its puppet". That doesn't mean alchemy was something he hated. All he is saying is he can get by and does not have to rely on alchemy always fixing things for him. Instead as the scene on the roof indicates he has to take his time and learn new ways to get around things.

Just because Ed doesn't get depressed that he lost his alchemy skills doesn't mean it wasn't a loss. As I said he looks on the bright side of things and from this loss he may gain something new. Not giving up has always been a theme of this series.

And the fact of the matter the series indicates that Ed (like Al) is still researching alchemy. He just won't be able to use it himself.

edit: Cutting out the part about Mei's age because I realized I am probably just going to go in circles and it doesn't really matter how old people think she is.

[zebra]

Ohh no! Never said he hated it!

Spoiler for dun dun duuun:

I think the difference in our interpretations is that I don't think he just pushes himself, but genuinly doesn't see it as a big loss himself. Just like he doesn't really care about his metal leg.

Just like you said: He still researches alchemy, he just can't use it anymore. You think of it as a big disadvantage, I don't. I see the scenes at the gate (with him smiling the whole time) and him on the roof (discovering the view in front of him) leaving a positive note .. and not just him sucking it up.
But I agree on him learning to get by without it; as he said 'taking his time'.

As I said, it is a loss, but it doesn't have to mean so much.

[KnightOfTwo]

I personally loved the ending (though I wish it could have been fleshed out a bit more but that might have gone on too long then). While it is a happy ending, I am glad that it's more of a "there is hope for the future" happy ending than just a "Yay everyone falls in love and gets what they want" end.

Spoiler for :

I am glad however that Ed doesn't get his real leg back in the end, though I am not sure how I feel about Roy getting his eyesight back. I did especially love how Roy's contemplation scene when talking to Marcoh, had a flashback to Kimbley's words during the war.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by zebra

Spoiler for dun dun duuun:

I think the difference in our interpretations is that I don't think he just pushes himself, but genuinly doesn't see it as a big loss himself. Just like he doesn't really care about his metal leg.

Just like you said: He still researches alchemy, he just can't use it anymore. You think of it as a big disadvantage, I don't. I see the scenes at the gate (with him smiling the whole time) and him on the roof (discovering the view in front of him) leaving a positive note .. and not just him sucking it up.
But I agree on him learning to get by without it; as he said 'taking his time'.

As I said, it is a loss, but it doesn't have to mean so much.

Spoiler:

I don't think I ever said that I thought Ed believed it was a big loss or that he was really upset about it. In fact I said the exact opposite. You are misinterpreting what I am trying to say. I also never said that Ed's loss was a big disadvantage in fact I said in the end he might gain something from this loss. That doesn't mean he won't have to work harder to accomplish certain things but I am not saying this is a bad thing.

[Ziziphus]

Originally Posted by kitten320

You were not watching enough TV, some kids at age 5 are more clever than those at age 30... one of the basic rules when kids are included.
...

But TV also has characters who look much younger than their actual age too, especially if you're short (well, short people tend to look younger than their actual age). Anyway, I think there's no point arguing about her age since we have no way to confirm it in the manga, so just believe in what we want to believe, I guess. (Personally, I think she's 2 or 3 years younger than Al.)

Originally Posted by kitten320

And? Now he will enjoy a peaceful life. It's not like he needs it now and he isn't too depressed about it either. I don't really see huge drama here.

Well, I AM depressed about it! Yeah, Ed has grown up and chose not to rely on alchemy anymore, but there's such a bitter taste in my mouth when I watched him make that decision. It's a big loss to me.

Overall, I'm plenty satisfied with the ending. The ending fits the tone of the series perfectly, and except for the last pics showing the future of characters there's no cheese really. Like I said Ed's loss of alchemy ability is huge to me, and then there's Greed's sacrifice... Not to mention the lack of Royai at the end may suggest that they decided to set aside their personal feelings for each other and keep on the current boss-subordinate relationship while working to rebuild the country...(maybe I'm just reading too much into it though) So not an overly too happy ending to me.

[kitten320]

Well I guess it's my personal problem, I just like dramatic endings... I actually wouldn't mind if Al never came back... not that I hate him or anything.

Though he did deserve his body back.

[Guido]

It was right after the end of the first Fullmetal Alchemist anime TV series, that I picked-up the manga about six years ago.

The very first chapters went accordingly to what happened in the anime, but once reaching the end of the Fifth Laboratory arc and the Dublith arc the story drastically changed from what I'd watched in the first anime.

I didn't have any idea of who "Father" was in the manga or anime, until Arakawa-sensei introduced the character at the very end of the Dublith arc.

So, here I am folks. My trek around the manga finished yesterday once I read from beginning to end the very last chapter / issue.

Spoiler:

When I looked at the very last panel with Ed waving good-bye to the readers about to board the train, I delivered an applause.

What I very much loved about this manga was how Arakawa-sensei kept with the pacing without dragging the arcs or rushing them, and that's same to say about the characters.
She had to wait, until the story came to certain points or situations to properly have the characters start to acting for themselves. I know that she introduced way too much characters and was forced to minimize their performances and apparitions on the panels to allow for more interaction with the protagonists and the main casts, but she never casted away the other characters.

The other thing I liked about this manga was how it kept a balance of strengths. With that I meant with that is that in many typical, battle shounen stories or quests, the hero always can rely upon the friends he or she has met along the journey for help or to get strength from them.
The balance that FMA attained was that the Elric Brothers had to encourage among themselves in the most critical, dire, or grievous circumstances to believe in their own strengths. At times, they were thoughtful about not requiring the help of their buddies, if they realize that their friends would happen to be at the mercy of an inminent danger or jeopardy. However, at times (not all of them) were smart and kind enough to admit at asking for help.

Their burning passion and bravery made their acquaintances to be inspired about them to move on.

If you ask me, from my personal opinion I believe that the story primarily revolved around Hohenheim at finishing what he started. Through Hohenheim the readers were introduced at how all this mess began, ages before the Elric brothers' tragedy.

To be honest, Father made for an interesting and effective villain. It wasn't the "bent on world domination" villain-cliché type. Rather, my theory suggests that Father attempted to become a god itself to escape from whatever laws or rules the universe, the truth, or God imposes to all living and/or non-living organisms.
I believe Father could not bear the thought of being a puppet to a higher intelligence, conscience, or sentience and be manipulated to the whims of that sentience. But at the end, Father reaped what he sowed. Its own conceitedness gave birth to its despair. Father wasn't different from all those humans it crushed, devoured, and swatted like buzzing flies. It used all those souls and life and traded them for energy to build its strength and knowledge, but it never believed in itself at all.

Spoiler:

What I think is that the Truth led "Father" to be consumed by Father's own Gate, because recall that the Elrics said that each individual has a Gate within one's own self, hence, Father wasn't the exception.

Whatever was inside "Father's" Gate could have been, nonetheless, than its despair, which dragged and sealed it inside forever.

[aohige]

Bah! Teenagers and their "I hate happy endings" syndrome!

Don't worry, you'll get over that phase.

[zebra]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Spoiler:

I don't think I ever said that I thought Ed believed it was a big loss or that he was really upset about it. In fact I said the exact opposite. You are misinterpreting what I am trying to say. I also never said that Ed's loss was a big disadvantage in fact I said in the end he might gain something from this loss. That doesn't mean he won't have to work harder to accomplish certain things but I am not saying this is a bad thing.

I have no idea what we are disagreeing about then
Sorry if I misread.

Gotta say that was my favorite page(s) in the whole thing (big spoiler ):

Spoiler for page 84/85:

Ed kept his promise! ;_; Made a big "D'AWWW" when I saw that.

[Jarmel]

Favorite scene for me had to be when Father was getting the crap punched out of him and he's just goes "How can he be attacking me with HIS BARE FIST!". He's like "Cannot compute. Brain Overload!"Although I did like the "That is the correct answer, Alchemist" alot.

It's really quite impressive how Arakawa not only remembered the whole Nina plot thread put actually put it in there. The throwbacks not only make perfect sense but fit in there quite well.

Roy getting his eyesight back is fine because he had it forcibly taken from him through no fault of his own unlike Ed, Al, and Izumi who chose to do human transmutation.

Also something interesting to note is how much Ed has changed throughout the series as noting his first speech in the church about how Alchemists were close to being gods and at the end notes that he's just a normal human being.