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Old 2010-06-06, 17:13   Link #1041
LKK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakuraAyanami View Post
Cool. In that case which one do you like more? the Imagin studio art of the first season, or the Brain's Base studios art of the second season?
I can't judge them fairly because I didn't watch too much of the second season due to several factors. Plus I've watched the first season more recently. It wouldn't be fair of me to express a preference for one over the other in this situation.

Quote:
In my case is not rare that I like more the art of the anime than of the light novel/manga/visual novel/ etc. But on therms of how the story is develop I then to like a lot more the latter.
Most of the time, I much prefer more detailed manga / novel art. But Horo looks a little childish (and I use that word intentionally) in the manga / novel art for my preferences. Like a tweenager, not even the stated 15 years old yet. The disconnect between her tweenage appearance and her older personality is off-putting for me. Oddly, she's not childish enough for the disconnect to not bother me. She needs to appear either older (as in the anime) or much younger for me to ignore the disconnect.
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Old 2010-06-06, 18:04   Link #1042
Rajura
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Personally, I take all the different representations of Holo as just that... different people's interpretations of her... some versions (especially the manga have grown on me... there are certain scenes where she looks more mature than others).

As for the anime, I do prefer the season 1 version if you had to pin me down on season 1 vs season 2. I just prefer the slightly more mature look... especially when she's being flirtatious!
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Old 2010-06-07, 03:56   Link #1043
tyranuus
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Originally Posted by LKK View Post
Most of the time, I much prefer more detailed manga / novel art. But Horo looks a little childish (and I use that word intentionally) in the manga / novel art for my preferences. Like a tweenager, not even the stated 15 years old yet. The disconnect between her tweenage appearance and her older personality is off-putting for me. Oddly, she's not childish enough for the disconnect to not bother me. She needs to appear either older (as in the anime) or much younger for me to ignore the disconnect.
Yeah I get you, its something I've mentioned before now, that the manga-ised version looks younger, I personally just take it to represent her mischaevious side a bit more, but I do get what you mean.
Its also a case, like Rajura, I've noticed that some of the manga/novel drawings make her look older than others (some of them do indeed make her look younger, whilst other shots appear closer to the anime self which is more the 15/16 age appearance mentioned in the books). I don't collect the manga though so I can't comment that heavily on that.

As Rajura pointed out the second seasons animation did make Holo look different, but I think thats as much due to the change in lead character designer as the change in animation studio, the change wasn't huge, but it was there. I remember reading a blog on the season and someone was complaining about the 'moe-fication of Holo'.
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Old 2010-06-07, 06:44   Link #1044
SakuraAyanami
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A yes I remember that. A lot of people complain about the moe attack in several anime at the time. But if you ask me she looked 15 thanks to that in my opinion, instead of 20ish like in the first season. Now which do I prefer? to be honest I like both and I really don't have a favorite but I did like how the studio manage the story in the second season. It didn't felt like it was dragging like it did sometimes in the first
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Old 2010-06-07, 14:09   Link #1045
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I liked the approach of both. Both ways of retelling had thier downsides. If they make another season, it'd be awesome if they could get a longer run and merge both styles (more time in one place, and more places less time)
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Old 2010-06-07, 16:41   Link #1046
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Just as long as it's well done, I'd like to see it follow the rest of the LNs through to the end (maybe even the "side color" stories). If well placed, though just useless fluff by some people's standards, they would be a nice addition.
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Old 2010-06-08, 05:39   Link #1047
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Yeah that would be nice.
One thought of mine is they could be delaying on another season til the last book is done, as its supposedly fairly close in the series now. It might be they'd prefer to do a final, conclusive season that wraps up the story well and in line with the novels like the previous runs, because of concerns on future financial backing and getting another season out if they just continue following the books missing out the odd novel.

Oh, slightly more ontopic, discovered last night that one of the UK-based anime importers I've used before actually has the american release of S&W Vol2 in stock as of yesterday (it seems the second novel might be being released under a different publishing house in the UK which could explain the UK release delay).
Cancelled my order with Play.com and promptly ordered from there, cost me a little extra on delivery but I should have it by the weekend

Edit: Sweet they were quick this time round. Copy in hand already, 2 weeks before UK release. Awesome
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Last edited by tyranuus; 2010-06-09 at 13:43.
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Old 2010-06-10, 14:19   Link #1048
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Hmmm, taking the new novel a chapter at a time so I don't rush through it but gotta say I'm really enjoying the S&W Vol.2 so far! It really works well as a companion piece to the anime, because so far, the anime is a pretty faithful adaptation of the two novels we've seen translated so far, and its nice to be able to see how well the series has translated from paper.

The book goes beyond the anime adaptation by offering more internal monologues and additional scenes and snippets around those portrayed in the series, but so far it feels like the book expands the characters and setting, and on what was portrayed in the series, rather than feeling like the anime missed important components out, overcondensed or changed things heavily for the sake of the show, which I suppose is a good sign of a faithful adaptation. It's never really felt so far like the anime shortchanged you in terms of content, it just condensed down or omitted some scenes of lesser importance.
The discussion about St Reuvinheigan could have been quite funny animated though, especially if they animated Lawrence's thoughts on it as Holo described what really happened, similarly to his sheep-torture tale in S&WII Ep00

Noticed a couple of minor typos and letters missing in the book so far, and still wish they'd put Wise Wolf instead of Wisewolf, as I really just think A)It's better english and B) Reads better, but can't really complain too much.
I actually quite like the original cover art on this one in person, Holo doesn't look that young, especially compared to the manga, and if you look closely at the drawing you can see the artist gave her an extra set of canines, to illustrate shes got a slightly more wolfy set of chompers than a normal girl, as mentioned a few times in the book, which is a nice little bit of attention to detail, and the sort of thing that often gets missed out.

Only downside is I know I'm going to have finished it come Monday, and I'll be waiting for the next book...and Amarti *glare*
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Old 2010-06-10, 19:41   Link #1049
Rajura
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Originally Posted by tyranuus View Post
Only downside is I know I'm going to have finished it come Monday, and I'll be waiting for the next book...and Amarti *glare*
Hey at least we already know that tool gets what he deserves (maybe not as badly as I would have liked though... he should have been shipped off to the mines)... that sorry crap for crap... he come around me, I'd whip his butt, heck, I'd whoop the crap out of him... no questions asked.
And, I'd do it for free!
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Old 2010-06-11, 15:23   Link #1050
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Ah, come on. He was outclassed to begin with, and he *was* just a kid. I felt genuinely sorry for him. Lawrence and Horo were playing him like pros, and it's only because they had a ridiculous love spat that there was any tension at all. He got what he deserved for his youthful ignorance and naivety, just like Lawrence and Horo both learned their own painful lessons.
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Old 2010-06-11, 17:40   Link #1051
Rajura
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Originally Posted by BashZeStampeedo View Post
Ah, come on. He was outclassed to begin with, and he *was* just a kid. I felt genuinely sorry for him. Lawrence and Horo were playing him like pros, and it's only because they had a ridiculous love spat that there was any tension at all. He got what he deserved for his youthful ignorance and naivety, just like Lawrence and Horo both learned their own painful lessons.
Maybe he was outclassed and maybe still immature... but he was still a tool, and you DON'T EVER... E-VER ask a girl particular questions!

I still think that little weasel got off easier than he should have. He's lucky I didn't write the story. Hahahaha!
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Old 2010-06-11, 17:46   Link #1052
tyranuus
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Originally Posted by BashZeStampeedo View Post
Ah, come on. He was outclassed to begin with, and he *was* just a kid. I felt genuinely sorry for him. Lawrence and Horo were playing him like pros, and it's only because they had a ridiculous love spat that there was any tension at all. He got what he deserved for his youthful ignorance and naivety, just like Lawrence and Horo both learned their own painful lessons.
It's true, its only down to the argument they had that there was any tension, but it was painfully obvious that Lawrence and Holo were more than just travelling companions but friends at the very least, and trying to force them apart was wrong regardless of his supposed motives (which lets be honest turned out to not just have been pure at heart).

Despite being 'just a kid' the story also makes note of the fact he started earlier than most and is actually fairly experienced, so he's not a greenhorn or a novice, not to mention he's fairly ruthless.

Long and short of it, he tried to poach another man's lady [I'm pretty sure even some of the other traders in the episode where it fell apart said the same], and more insultingly, wrap it in a veneer of respectability, charity and altruism, when in fact it was nothing of the sort.
I don't like that sort of behaviour in the real world, and I don't like it in a story, unless they're already trying to end it, you should never steal another guys woman!

Have to admit you're one of the few people I've spoken to who felt sorry for him, he's not a popular character amongst most of the people I know who've seen the show.
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Old 2010-06-11, 18:38   Link #1053
Rajura
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Originally Posted by tyranuus View Post
It's true, its only down to the argument they had that there was any tension, but it was painfully obvious that Lawrence and Holo were more than just travelling companions but friends at the very least, and trying to force them apart was wrong regardless of his supposed motives (which lets be honest turned out to not just have been pure at heart).

Despite being 'just a kid' the story also makes note of the fact he started earlier than most and is actually fairly experienced, so he's not a greenhorn or a novice, not to mention he's fairly ruthless.

Long and short of it, he tried to poach another man's lady [I'm pretty sure even some of the other traders in the episode where it fell apart said the same], and more insultingly, wrap it in a veneer of respectability, charity and altruism, when in fact it was nothing of the sort.
I don't like that sort of behaviour in the real world, and I don't like it in a story, unless they're already trying to end it, you should never steal another guys woman!

Have to admit you're one of the few people I've spoken to who felt sorry for him, he's not a popular character amongst most of the people I know who've seen the show.
Ooooh, very good points... I wasn't even gonna go there, but yeah like Tyr said... it's not cool to move in on another guy's girl/almost his girl. Holo may have teased him a bit and played him like a fiddle, but he deserved it, she knew his intentions and (rightfully so) taught him a horribly painful lesson... that stunt he tried to pull cost him his pride and dignity, a bit of his manhood, a lot of his money, and probably all of any good reputation he had. That's a very costly lesson!

I don't see how anyone with business sense could lack common sense and thus not be able to pick up the vibes between Holo and Lawrence... that little punk knew EXACTLY what he was doing. I refuse to feel sorry for his character. He was very unscrupulous. He *may have* been thinking with his hormones, but that's no excuse.

Good riddance!

*Takes soapbox and goes home*
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Old 2010-06-11, 18:58   Link #1054
tyranuus
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Not to mention that Amarti knew Lawrence couldn't easily refuse his wager in the trade house, because by refusing a merchant's duel with no seeming reason to refuse (he and Holo are not officially together at this point, and they've used varying excuses wherever they've gone, be it business companion, lover, nun, travelling companion etc), Lawrence would lose quite a bit of respect. Respect, connections and trust are extremely important in his profession.
It's also commented in the books that regardless of the connection between the two, companions are highly valued to a travelling merchant, because of the loneliness many of them feel on the road, a common feeling amongst them. Amarti would know this, and yet obviously didn't care.

Either way Amarti knew what he was doing, and despite Lawrence's disbelief he could lose at this point, Amarti was banking on the fact he knew it was unlikely Lawrence would refuse regardless of his personal feelings, and was trying to put him in this position to steal something important from him, regardless of whether that importance was one of companionship, or anything more.

Not an attitude I like, backing a man into a corner to try and take something important from him, using the knowledge that if he refuses he will lose respect and harm his livelihood. Pretty ****ty thing to do.

From this perspective, I find Amarti pretty unlikeable, even if he did end up getting his pride, and occupation wounded by his gamble, he was the one who initiated it, intending to do just the same to someone else.
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Old 2010-06-12, 05:31   Link #1055
Ichihara Asako
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I just ordered the first volume of the novels, since I was ordering a few things from Amazon anyway. I don't look forward to reading "Holo" but I may not even read it at all, and instead just collect the series for collection's sake.

Curious which version I'll get though, as I heard there's an American release cover but they re-did the original cover, too? Don't really want to go through 52 pages of this thread to try to scrounge some info on it. >.<
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Old 2010-06-12, 08:59   Link #1056
Rajura
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Here's what was done...

To hopefully expand the reader base, the publisher released a "Westernized"/non-manga art cover. There was a major outcry against this, so they printed the original art as a dust jacket.
This was released in Yen's magazine (with bad folding... i.e. folds not where they should be to cover the book properly). Some online retailers were also given a supply of books and dust jackets to sell. I know Right Stuf was among those, however, I do not know if they would have any left at this point. In fact, I don't know if any retailers would have any more with the dust jacket... hope I'm wrong.
Of course, the best was to rectify the issue would be to reprint the book with the original art as the cover and use the "Westernized" version as the dust jacket... sales appear to have been strong enough to merit it, but oh well.

Fortunately, after such an outcry, Volume 2 and supposedly all subsequent are to be released with the original art cover and a "Westernized" dust jacket.

And anyway, just remember, Holo is the way it's really spelled according to the creator. So, at least they did their research when doing the names.



Hope that helped!
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Old 2010-06-12, 09:44   Link #1057
tyranuus
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Yep, much as we're not used to it as the Japanese voices are better and they say Horo, Brains Base even went out of there way to show Holo write her name as Holo in the second season!
I seem to remember hearing Yen Press were specifically told to spell it Holo instead of Horo when they asked the licensors.
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Old 2010-06-12, 14:38   Link #1058
BashZeStampeedo
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Heh.. everyone's so caught up on Amarti it makes my day!

It's easy to be upset at him. He was a smug kid who obviously just got his first taste of failure. I felt sorry for him simply because that failure was at the hands of Lawrence and Horo, who teamed up to easily bring out the worst in him.

It's obvious that he wasn't as experienced as people claim he was. In business he wasn't too bad (mostly overconfident and arrogant), but in real life he was most certainly a greenhorn and acted his age (or younger).

Still, like I said, he got what was coming to him. I just can't place fault entirely on Amarti, nor blame him for falling for the traps Lawrence and Horo laid out for him. That would be like blaming Lawrence for turning into an idiot around Horo, when she goes out of her way to make him act like one.
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Old 2010-06-12, 16:46   Link #1059
tyranuus
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Haha, its true I do enjoy a little renewed life in here. I guess Amarti is a bit of a sore point for me, even if he's naive, I still distinctly don't like his character, and through his actions, regardless of where he stood in the scheme of things, I find it rather hard to feel sorry for him, on moral and personal grounds.

Finished book 2 today as well..damn these 6 month wait periods! Yen Press...if there is a god, please up the publication rate!
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Old 2010-06-12, 16:47   Link #1060
Rajura
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You're a nicer guy than me, because no matter what, I cannot and will not ever give that little "bleepity-bleep" any slack!

And Lawrence acting stupid around Holo, well yeah she turns him into a bumbling, stammering idiot... I can understand, her character is intoxicating, intelligent, and a really great flirt... I have know a couple of girls that could do the same to me... I love that feeling, so I can't relate to that argument... heck, I'd let Holo turn me into a stammering idiot... that's a compliment to a girl (at least in the short-term)!
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