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Old 2010-06-13, 22:28   Link #2321
Guardian Enzo
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In addition to Eva being something of a Rorschach test anyway, it does indeed possess a startling number of alternative visions just counting the "official" meta-franchise. Yoshiyuki Sadamoto - who I consider very nearly Anno's equal in terms of importance to Eva and of greater importance to manga and anime as a whole - has a subtly but very distinctly different take on the story and characters in his still unfinished manga adaptation. And I confess to be enjoying the "Shinji Ikari Raising Project" tremendously, in a guilty pleasure sort of way. And the shockingly professional doujin "Re-take" is a fabulous interpretation of the material.
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Old 2010-06-13, 22:38   Link #2322
Myssa Rei
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Guilty pleasure nothing! I STILL haven't gotten the 'Yui is freed from Unit-01' ending. Since I'm trying to do so without any walkthrough, I'm starting to think that it's got something to do with getting every other possible paths... Either way, it's fan-bait at its finest, and lends EVA Daitenroku's parallel-world based musings some credence.

It's really too bad though that it's not possible to completely recreate many popular scenarios that have shown up over the years in fanfiction, or even some of Gainax's own EVA sidestories. Like Mana fully absorbed into the cast as the Music Club's president instead of being the JSSDF-mole-come-T-Raiden-T pilot, meaning no replication of Steel Girlfriend. The alternate Synch Training was a nice touch though.
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Old 2010-06-13, 23:34   Link #2323
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Gendo having an AT Field is subtle? I do love how Kaworu shows up a whole 2 Angels prior, and that changed literally nothing, save for a dead kitten and an official Kaworu-raping-Shinji bed scene.
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Old 2010-06-14, 00:18   Link #2324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Well I definitely do feel, that you are not a true Evangelion fan if you can't enjoy the last two episodes and understand them.
Both endings to the original story are like the two sides of the same coin. Though honestly, it took longer for EoE to grow on me.

The TV ending is definitely unique and represents to me making the best of the situation-- it is really what you make out of it. If I were to summarize what I like about Evangelion, it's definitely the emotional honesty.
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Old 2010-06-14, 07:16   Link #2325
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Did I mention I got very troubled by EoE, myself? Something that didn't really happen with the TV ending?
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Old 2010-06-14, 07:19   Link #2326
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Neon Genesis Evangelion =

TV 1-24
End of Evangelion Ep. 25 (movie's first half)

The rest is...well...the rest
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Old 2010-06-14, 09:42   Link #2327
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Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Did I mention I got very troubled by EoE, myself? Something that didn't really happen with the TV ending?
I quite agree with this statement - and not in a good way.
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Old 2010-06-14, 10:51   Link #2328
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Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Did I mention I got very troubled by EoE, myself? Something that didn't really happen with the TV ending?
I'd be more worried if you weren't troubled. There's some really fucked up stuff in there [even lampshaded by the English dub, lol]

EoE does have a lot of anger as well as powerful and disturbing imagery. But I find it more enjoyable after seeing it again. It does generate some very powerful emotions hard to find elsewhere. You know, like confusion, anger and sadness. (All 3 are related)

But I also see it as a story where broken individuals who can't do anything waking up and being active to accomplish something. Sometimes it doesn't matter if one succeeds or not, it's the fight that matters.

Of course, the TV ending does have the advantage of ending Evangelion where it started-- an analysis of the character psychology, which was far more important than the actual plot. It also has Pen-Pen congratulating Shinji, which I really can't argue against.

Some may think EoE was to spite fans, and it's often pointed out that death threats and hate mail flashed in the imagery, but Wikipedia also says that letters of praise are also mixed in there too. But taking things in context, it wouldn't really make sense to spite the fans that for the most part saved you, would it?

So back to Rebuild; taking things into context, it might just be their way of saying thanks (for the money). But to be serious, the Rebuild characters are far more grateful-- I expect that to be a theme somewhere.

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Originally Posted by limao View Post
Neon Genesis Evangelion =

TV 1-24
End of Evangelion Ep. 25 (movie's first half)

The rest is...well...the rest
25 and 25' definitely correspond to each other. For 26', it matches TV 26 up to the eyecatch, then afterwards it just goes off lol.
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Old 2010-06-14, 11:21   Link #2329
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Some may think EoE was to spite fans, and it's often pointed out that death threats and hate mail flashed in the imagery, but Wikipedia also says that letters of praise are also mixed in there too. But taking things in context, it wouldn't really make sense to spite the fans that for the most part saved you, would it?
I've never bought the theory that EoE was Anno's big "F.U." to fans who didn't like the TV ending...the movie is simply made with too much care and attention to detail, the characters remain true to themselves, and the story hangs together quite well.

Admittedly, the first time I saw it, I was baffled by a lot of it, but that's probably mostly because I was watching it raw.
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Old 2010-06-14, 11:42   Link #2330
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
I've never bought the theory that EoE was Anno's big "F.U." to fans who didn't like the TV ending...the movie is simply made with too much care and attention to detail, the characters remain true to themselves, and the story hangs together quite well.

Admittedly, the first time I saw it, I was baffled by a lot of it, but that's probably mostly because I was watching it raw.
Yea I never bought it either; that idea just never added up to me. There's some definite parallels you could draw between the two endings. And like I said, letters of praise are also flashed in there, but people like to point out the hate mail more.
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Old 2010-06-14, 11:55   Link #2331
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Both endings to the original story are like the two sides of the same coin. Though honestly, it took longer for EoE to grow on me.

The TV ending is definitely unique and represents to me making the best of the situation-- it is really what you make out of it. If I were to summarize what I like about Evangelion, it's definitely the emotional honesty.
I enjoy both endings for what they are worth.

However, I do realize in the end, it is better for everyone to have EoE over the TV series ending because in the TV ending, all our questions were never really answered.

It was a complete lack of closure that was the real ticket to pissing off a lot of fans.

However we must realize that the endings while seemingly parallel, where the end of the TV series reflects much of what is going on in the ehads of the characters of EoE, do not necessarily end the same.

It is arguable that Shinji chose to be complemented in the TV series, while Shinji chose differently in EoE.

What really happened in the End of the TV series? Only Anno knows. But I look at both the TV ending and EoE as you do, two sides of the same coin. They serve to complement each other rather than to be replacements of one another.

As for Rebuild, I guess time will tell... But things aren't looking too good based on what's transpired in Evangelion 2.0. I probably should just start looking at it as some sort of big flashy fanfiction...
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Old 2010-06-14, 11:55   Link #2332
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Well, some of that perception comes from the fact that Anno has more or less said himself that "F/U" was part of his motivation for making EoE. Plus, it fits his personality and the general premise behind Eva. Anno seems to view his anime as a kind of psychotherapy - whatever is eating at him, he bares it on screen for all to see even if he doesn't fully understand it himself. I think that's why Eva is such a generally raw and powerful emotional experience, and why EoE seems to come from an angrier, more hostile place than the original series. That had anger too, no doubt, but the larger themes seemed to be loneliness and a sense of general pessismism about humanity.
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Old 2010-06-14, 12:10   Link #2333
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
I've never bought the theory that EoE was Anno's big "F.U." to fans who didn't like the TV ending...
That doesn't even makes sense since people I know that hated the TV ending love EoE. It just wouldn't make sense to have a happy ending with the tone of the show negative for so long.

Quote:
However, I do realize in the end, it is better for everyone to have EoE over the TV series ending because in the TV ending, all our questions were never really answered.
Thats exactly why the original ending was disliked. After so many episodes of plot development, the plot is just dropped? The last 2 episodes are not the problem, it the plot suddenly being dropped and never resolved.

I don't see EoE as a replacement but instead as a supplement of the original ending.
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Old 2010-06-14, 12:14   Link #2334
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Well, some of that perception comes from the fact that Anno has more or less said himself that "F/U" was part of his motivation for making EoE.
I know I sound like a broken record, but...source, please?
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Old 2010-06-14, 12:16   Link #2335
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
As for Rebuild, I guess time will tell... But things aren't looking too good based on what's transpired in Evangelion 2.0. I probably should just start looking at it as some sort of big flashy fanfiction...
I dunno, from what I've read of Japanese doujin related to EVA (the ones that aren't porn), they're very subdued or introspective. You'll find MORE instances of flashy stuff from Western writers, actually. Again, you're trying to look at it with too narrow a view (TV+ EoE only! Supplemental bad!), which is kind of disappointing to see in someone so young...

And not looking good? I think things are looking up, actually. EoE is in full swing in the EVA manga, we finally learn just why Gendou is such a bastard in Daitenroku, and it looks like we'll get a glimpse of what makes Mari tick in Rebuild 3.0. The layers are getting peeled bit by bit.

Now if we could only get confirmation on the length of the next two movies...
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Old 2010-06-14, 12:34   Link #2336
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Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
I dunno, from what I've read of Japanese doujin related to EVA (the ones that aren't porn), they're very subdued or introspective. You'll find MORE instances of flashy stuff from Western writers, actually. Again, you're trying to look at it with too narrow a view (TV+ EoE only! Supplemental bad!), which is kind of disappointing to see in someone so young...

And not looking good? I think things are looking up, actually. EoE is in full swing in the EVA manga, we finally learn just why Gendou is such a bastard in Daitenroku, and it looks like we'll get a glimpse of what makes Mari tick in Rebuild 3.0. The layers are getting peeled bit by bit.

Now if we could only get confirmation on the length of the next two movies...
Did I not say I liked the RE-TAKE doujin for instance? I thought it was a nice story.

However, I have high expectations of Anno... Hence REBUILD is going to get the utter most scrutiny in my eyes. If it's his series, I don't expect him to change his own characters THAT much.
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Old 2010-06-14, 12:40   Link #2337
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Did I not say I liked the RE-TAKE doujin for instance? I thought it was a nice story.
It's funny...after hearing a lot of praise for Re-Take, I checked it out...and hated it (that said, I never finished it...I read up until the battle with Arimisael was concluded).
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Old 2010-06-14, 12:56   Link #2338
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However, I have high expectations of Anno...
Which I think is the problem. What happens if Anno has plans that don't necessarily segue with what you want? It's a reimagining, anything can happen really. Remember my example several pages back about what happened to Battlestar: Galactica when it was revisited? I'm not saying we'll see something as drastic as Starbuck being turned into a woman of course, or the nature of the Xylons, but we're already passed the point where it's useless to compare the Rebuild movies to the series, event-wise. Heck, the number of Angels this time around should have alerted you to that fact, nevermind how we have a greater number of more powerful EVAs (and we're not even sure if the Harpies will make a re-appearance).

The scenario has changed, so to speak.
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Old 2010-06-14, 13:03   Link #2339
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Which I think is the problem. What happens if Anno has plans that don't necessarily segue with what you want? It's a reimagining, anything can happen really. Remember my example several pages back about what happened to Battlestar: Galactica when it was revisited? I'm not saying we'll see something as drastic as Starbuck being turned into a woman of course, or the nature of the Xylons, but we're already passed the point where it's useless to compare the Rebuild movies to the series, event-wise. Heck, the number of Angels this time around should have alerted you to that fact.

The scenario has changed, so to speak.
Yes and I have a diffuculty with the term "reimagining."

Three different scenarios.

1. Anno calls it Evangelion, but really changes the characters to tell a relatively different story. Why call it Evangelion? The characters are no longer the same. Why not just create new characters?

2. Anno makes slight shifts in the character decisions and makes changes in the plot that serve to change the direction of the show in a believable and realistic way. We get a whole new conclusion to Evangelion, and the journey is a bit different too.

3. Anno simply turns Evangelion into a cash cow, to line his pockets by dumbing down the entire series.

Want to take a guess at which scenario I wanted and which scenario we are getting?
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Old 2010-06-14, 13:06   Link #2340
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I dunno, humor me young'in. :P Seeing as we've gone through this several pages ago too.

It kind of boils down to your problem with 'Re-Imaginings' (and any definition thereof). You have trouble with re-imaginings. If you were a fan of, oh, Battlestar: Galactica, you wouldn't have liked the 2000 revisit, or if you read Marvel, you might not have enjoyed the Ultimate imprint as much (Steve Roger was not Steve Roger, for one).
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