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Old 2010-06-14, 11:24   Link #7801
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMvS View Post
Not exactly a surprise, as these mountains have been renowned for their mineral wealth (specifically, all kinds of gem and precious stones), which they owe to their extremely diverse and rich geological setting, given the sheer size of the country, it was bound to be filled with lots of mineral deposits.

Well... that doesn't bode well for peace. Just look at all those mineral rich countries in Africa which were plagued by civil and border wars for decades.

At least it doesn't appear that those resources would be able to fund civil war, like more "concentrated" riches, like diamonds, gold, coltan or even oil do.

But that's precisely the point: those riches require huge investments in infrastructure: large mining facilities (which would require large amount of energy as well as water), and extensive transport infrastructure, like highways and railroads. For those investments to be realized, peace is a prerequisite, not a consequence.

Or maybe we'll see Chinese and American interests invest hugely in securing and exploiting those specific areas, ignoring the rest of the country, plunder-economy style, as it's done elsewhere.
I agree that mineral wealth is going to be a curse. The people of Afghanistan would be better off if the the only thing of value thier contain is dates and goats.

with Lithium being the new oil, even if the US withdraw someone else will move in. There won't be foreseeable peace in Afghanistan's future for the next few decades.
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Old 2010-06-14, 12:20   Link #7802
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by MitsubishiZero View Post
so, is the US going to declare that Afghanistan has "weapons of mass destruction" or any BS excuses to invade Afghanistan, take all the resources away and then abandon the place???
I seriously wonder what kind of wacky alternate reality you live in man. It's like some bad comedy routine.


Bandit #1:Muahahaha! We have kidnapped this random girl and now have her imprisoned in our lair. What are we to do with her?
Bandit #2:Hold there! This be no random girl, but I believe this be the princess!
Bandit #1:The princess?
Bandit #2:Yes, the Princess. She surely would be worth a great ransom in gold.
Bandit #1:Yes, indeed she would. Now we shall ride off to the castle to kidnap the princess and hold her for ransom!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMvS View Post
Well... that doesn't bode well for peace. Just look at all those mineral rich countries in Africa which were plagued by civil and border wars for decades.
Not sure that's a valid fear. These seem like mining operations that require a level of infrastructure and stability that would generally infer that there wouldn't be a civil conflict to fund anymore.

Last edited by Roger Rambo; 2010-06-14 at 12:30.
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Old 2010-06-14, 14:03   Link #7803
ganbaru
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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Not sure that's a valid fear. These seem like mining operations that require a level of infrastructure and stability that would generally infer that there wouldn't be a civil conflict to fund anymore.
If it was diamon his fear would be more valid, looking at what happen in congo/ex-zaire. But I wouldn't discredit the probability of the increasing of the corruption/briding problem.
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Old 2010-06-14, 16:16   Link #7804
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Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
If it was diamon his fear would be more valid, looking at what happen in congo/ex-zaire. But I wouldn't discredit the probability of the increasing of the corruption/briding problem.
Well, at least 2 high value ores that were listed in the article would qualify as instability factors: cobalt and lithium.

Cobalt if it is present associated with Tantalum as the renowned Coltan which funds the civil and border wars in the Congo area.

And Lithium could qualify, as it can be concentrated locally using rather low tech technology.

These kinds of high value, locally concentrable ores could very well fund civil war, as all the gemstones and precious stones are doing now already in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Conversely, those mines could also be seized by a foreign power for plunder, as is done in the Congo for Coltan. So these could very well be exploited with no benefits for the population.

Most of the others types of mineral deposits (copper, iron, etc...), require heavy investments and thus peace as a prerequisite, those might benefit the population, but only as a collateral of the establishment of peace.


And of course all of this doesn't take into account the fact that mining has an extremely high environmental impact, and can require a lot of water, which is rather scarce in the area.

BTW, I'm a geology grad student, and for me the surprise is rather that those discoveries have been made public only now. As per all our mineral resources and gemology courses, this area is well known as one of the richest and most diverse in the World.
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Old 2010-06-14, 19:24   Link #7805
Joojoobees
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Originally Posted by JMvS View Post
BTW, I'm a geology grad student, and for me the surprise is rather that those discoveries have been made public only now. As per all our mineral resources and gemology courses, this area is well known as one of the richest and most diverse in the World.
2nd that. I was an Art History student and wrote a paper as an undergrad on the Blue used in late Medieval/ Early Renaissance paintings (e.g. Giotto ~1300 CE), which was manufactured from Lapis Lazuli mined in Afghanistan.

Spoiler for Sample Giotto - see blue in sky, mostly flaked off, though:
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Old 2010-06-15, 02:01   Link #7806
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Separatists' poll victory widens Belgian divisions
Quote:
Brussels (June 13): The move to break up Belgium gathered pace today as separatists won an emphatic election victory in Flanders, the more prosperous Dutch-speaking region of the divided nation.

A stunning electoral success for Bart de Wever's Flemish nationalist party, which won the most parliamentary seats, is a significant new challenge to the fragile unity of a federal country where tensions between French and Dutch speakers run deep, and where voters in one region cannot vote for parties in the other.

It has also injected a new element of uncertainty into Europe at an especially difficult time for the European Union, struggling with serious problems over its finances and currency.

Belgium is due to assume the rotating presidency of the EU in less than three weeks. But it is likely to take months to negotiate a new coalition, raising the prospect that Belgium will be struggling to assemble its own government at precisely the time it is supposed to be steering Europe out of a deep crisis.

In 2007, after the last general election, it took the Belgians roughly nine months to form a coalition government, a measure of the centrifugal forces threatening to destroy the already-loose federal state, or to make it even less relevant than it is today.

NEW YORK TIMES
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Old 2010-06-15, 02:14   Link #7807
ZephyrLeanne
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
From the capital of what is SUPPOSED to be the European UNION. It's like having the Tea Party take over Washington DC Capital City Council. Wonderful. Down with the EU - Viva la souveraineté!

Meanwhile, in the land of the setting
rising sun...

After Many Leaders, Japan Still Hopes for Recovery

It's a rather long post, but relating back to the discussion of Japanese education system not too long ago, it is infinitely clear that these leaders are all useless simply because they come from jaded political families. It never bodes well. Remember Bush 43?

Also, political families are a big headache.
Remember this anime?

Look carefully - all the surnames are derived from past Japanese premiers!
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Old 2010-06-15, 10:18   Link #7808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MitsubishiZero View Post
so, is the US going to declare that Afghanistan has "weapons of mass destruction" or any BS excuses to invade Afghanistan, take all the resources away and then abandon the place???
I don't know what kind of education your school system gave you, but I'd ask for a refund...

We're already in Afghanistan.

And if you haven't noticed in your drug induced world, we haven't touched any of Iraq's oil either, so your thought process is inherently flawed.
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Old 2010-06-15, 16:46   Link #7809
Tiberium Wolf
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I don't think mining would be viable. I think there will be too many tunnels collapses coz Afghanistan is already full of rats tunnels done by the taliban.
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Old 2010-06-15, 16:49   Link #7810
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZephyrLeanne View Post
From the capital of what is SUPPOSED to be the European UNION. It's like having the Tea Party take over Washington DC Capital City Council. Wonderful. Down with the EU - Viva la [COLOR=#000000]souveraineté!
The independentists are actually relatively pro-EU. (Well, the brand that got elected, anyway.) To their way of thinking, the EU's weakened national governments in favor of supra-national (meaning, the EU's) and regional power. Which is fine by them. They want a powerful (if possible, independent, but they won't insist on it... for now) dutch region and a weak Belgian government.
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Old 2010-06-16, 11:56   Link #7811
AnimeFan188
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Nightmare vision for Europe as EU chief warns 'democracy could disappear' in
Greece, Spain and Portugal

See:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...-Portugal.html

I realize that the great depression fueled Hitler's rise to power, but I doubt the
situation in Europe is likely to get that bad in the forseeable future.
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Old 2010-06-16, 12:19   Link #7812
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimeFan188 View Post
Nightmare vision for Europe as EU chief warns 'democracy could disappear' in
Greece, Spain and Portugal

See:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...-Portugal.html

I realize that the great depression fueled Hitler's rise to power, but I doubt the
situation in Europe is likely to get that bad in the forseeable future.
Let them talk, its almost the only thing they are good for.
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Old 2010-06-16, 15:45   Link #7813
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimeFan188 View Post
Nightmare vision for Europe as EU chief warns 'democracy could disappear' in
Greece, Spain and Portugal

See:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...-Portugal.html

I realize that the great depression fueled Hitler's rise to power, but I doubt the
situation in Europe is likely to get that bad in the forseeable future.
So the government spend more money then it has to keep the voter's happy. Now that the bills are due, the voters want to revolt?
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Old 2010-06-16, 17:01   Link #7814
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMvS View Post
And of course all of this doesn't take into account the fact that mining has an extremely high environmental impact, and can require a lot of water, which is rather scarce in the area.

BTW, I'm a geology grad student, and for me the surprise is rather that those discoveries have been made public only now. As per all our mineral resources and gemology courses, this area is well known as one of the richest and most diverse in the World.
There is this guy who made a movie about life in Afghanistan and in his set, he grew his own poppy by hiring water tankers. I believe with the proper irrigation techniques, water shouldn't be a problem.

I am not sure if Israel is a good example of a desert turned into a metropolis, but they have good water-carrier technologies which can similarly be used in Afghanistan.

However, starting a mining business can result in a resource war between hungry, high tech countries like China and US competing for raw material in that region. If things get bad enough, the Taliban might switch to using such resources to fund their insurgency, much like the Swat emerald mines.
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Old 2010-06-16, 17:14   Link #7815
ganbaru
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I am not sure if Israel is a good example of a desert turned into a metropolis, but they have good water-carrier technologies which can similarly be used in Afghanistan.
Israel have also acces to sea water ( which with the proper desalination facility can give usefull water ) which Afganistan don't have acces.
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Old 2010-06-16, 17:36   Link #7816
Anh_Minh
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Without looking at the particulars...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
So the government spend more money then it has to keep the voter's happy.
The voters... and themselves... and various rich people... (I'm from a country that also insists on spending money it doesn't have. Oddly enough, I seldom see any of it. Members of the government or parliament, big businesses board members and so on don't have that problem, though.)

Quote:
Now that the bills are due, the voters want to revolt?
Well, yes. "The voters" didn't decide to buy loan equities, or feed speculative bubbles, or make various other bad financial decisions. Admittedly, they didn't precisely say no either, or even kept themselves very informed. And yeah, they did always demand more money, jobs, services...
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Old 2010-06-16, 21:19   Link #7817
Xellos-_^
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Without looking at the particulars...


The voters... and themselves... and various rich people... (I'm from a country that also insists on spending money it doesn't have. Oddly enough, I seldom see any of it. Members of the government or parliament, big businesses board members and so on don't have that problem, though.)


Well, yes. "The voters" didn't decide to buy loan equities, or feed speculative bubbles, or make various other bad financial decisions. Admittedly, they didn't precisely say no either, or even kept themselves very informed. And yeah, they did always demand more money, jobs, services...
don't the French have 3 months pay vacation every year?
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Old 2010-06-16, 21:27   Link #7818
ZephyrLeanne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
So the government spend more money then it has to keep the voter's happy. Now that the bills are due, the voters want to revolt?
The people are Keyensian. I tell you, Thatcherism is the way to go. Just look at the Keynesian spending habits of previous Japanese premiers from Shinzo Abe to Hatoyama. All got them thrown out. People didn't always like Koizumi's policies. But at least he stuck.
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Old 2010-06-16, 23:58   Link #7819
Xellos-_^
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The people are Keyensian. I tell you, Thatcherism is the way to go. Just look at the Keynesian spending habits of previous Japanese premiers from Shinzo Abe to Hatoyama. All got them thrown out. People didn't always like Koizumi's policies. But at least he stuck.
Thatcherism = Reganism = Trickle Down Economic = Voodoo Economic
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Old 2010-06-17, 01:26   Link #7820
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
don't the French have 3 months pay vacation every year?
25 days, plus a handful of holidays at fixed dates (don't know how they're called in English. Things like Christmas or New Year and stuff.)

Unless you're talking about teachers, I guess, which is a more complicated issue. Or maybe you're counting week-ends?

And unless we're civil servant, it doesn't come out of the pocket of the government, does it?
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