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Old 2010-06-15, 21:59   Link #2121
Vicious108
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
^ Frieza's voice actor hasn't been revealed yet, unfortunately. That's strange that Funi blocks some of their content in your country. If I may ask, where do you reside?
Portugal. And unfortunately it isn't really strange at all, since it's the same for all of Europe. In fact, I think only people in the US can access their online videos, be it in their website or youtube channel.
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Old 2010-06-15, 23:53   Link #2122
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
Portugal. And unfortunately it isn't really strange at all, since it's the same for all of Europe. In fact, I think only people in the US can access their online videos, be it in their website or youtube channel.
I live in Canada and there are no restrictions with Funimation viewing over here. I guess that explains why the Funi simulcast is only available for Canada and the U.S.
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Old 2010-06-16, 07:39   Link #2123
Vegard Aune
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Indeed, the original english dub was inaccurate most of the time. However, now that Funimation is dubbing DB Kai, all of their previous script errors are being rectified to stay as faithful to the original japanese script as possible.
Well, not all of them, but yeah, Kai's dub is generally a lot more faithful than the dub of Z... apparently. I haven't actually seen it myself, and quite frankly, I probably won't, as I sort of lost interest in Kai halfway through the Freeza-battle. Despite them trimming it down, I thought it was still way too slow. I mean, come on, this is supposed to be the filler-free version, yet Namek still takes 4 episodes to explode?
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Old 2010-06-16, 08:24   Link #2124
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by Vegard Aune View Post
Despite them trimming it down, I thought it was still way too slow. I mean, come on, this is supposed to be the filler-free version, yet Namek still takes 4 episodes to explode?
It's got nothing to do with taking away material. It's the same in the manga, though time just flows much quicker in that format compared to TV.

What you're saying is that after Freeza stated that namek will explode in five minutes, that it did explode in five minutes later in the episode, instead of 4/5 episodes later? Sure that would make sense, though would completely destroy the climax moments of the end of the arc.
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Old 2010-06-16, 08:56   Link #2125
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Also, '5 minutes' on a television show very rarely, if ever, would actually mean '5 minutes.' That isn't just in shounen, or anime, or whatever, I'm talking all TV. Watch American sitcoms, dramas, etc, it is pretty much universal that time is not the same in the TV world as the real world.
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Old 2010-06-16, 09:50   Link #2126
Vegard Aune
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It's got nothing to do with taking away material. It's the same in the manga, though time just flows much quicker in that format compared to TV.
But they didn't cut all the filler. That's the whole point. I've read the manga, and while it's obvious that they couldn't fit all that content into just five minutes of screentime, 4 episodes is still far too much, and considering how stuff like Goku "dying" and Gohan returning to hold of Freeza was supposedly kept, I can't say I'm particularly impressed at their efforts to cut it down either. Sure, having it actually last 5 minutes would be almost impossible, and 1 episode might not be enough either, but I'm pretty damn sure they could cover everything that happened in those 8 chapters in 2 episodes, considering how short an average Dragonball-chapter is, and how those 8 chapters were mostly just fighting.
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Old 2010-06-16, 10:12   Link #2127
MushroomSamba
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I'm in the same boat. As much as I love Kai so far, the Freeza battle sorta broke the series' pacing. Felt like it went on way too long compared to the flow of the previous arcs.
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Old 2010-06-16, 10:14   Link #2128
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by Vegard Aune View Post
But they didn't cut all the filler. That's the whole point. I've read the manga, and while it's obvious that they couldn't fit all that content into just five minutes of screentime, 4 episodes is still far too much, and considering how stuff like Goku "dying" and Gohan returning to hold of Freeza was supposedly kept, I can't say I'm particularly impressed at their efforts to cut it down either. Sure, having it actually last 5 minutes would be almost impossible, and 1 episode might not be enough either, but I'm pretty damn sure they could cover everything that happened in those 8 chapters in 2 episodes, considering how short an average Dragonball-chapter is, and how those 8 chapters were mostly just fighting.
That's because they couldn't cut all the filler. Some of it directly transitions into the canon material, so removing it would make the flow of the episode seem choppy and awkward.

I've read the manga too, and there's no way in hell they could have fit those 8 chapters into 2 episodes. An episode of DB Kai usually covers 3 chapters at most.
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Old 2010-06-16, 10:28   Link #2129
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As much as I dislike the filler, too, there's no denying that to avoid all filler, they'd have to reanimate the show from scratch. I think they're doing the best with what they have to work with, which wiki says are digital lifts from the original animation. Androids pacing has been great so far but I know that during Cell Games, for example, there's no way of cutting Mr. Satan's fan club entirely out because, like Kuma said, the animation would become choppy and awkward.

Someone could argue that Kai could've been a complete re-animation using the team that does the opening, but quite honestly I think the original animation looks most similar to the manga. I think they've struck a good balance between old and new styles, and a true HD remaster with most of the filler removed is enjoyable enough for me.
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Old 2010-06-16, 17:19   Link #2130
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Originally Posted by MushroomSamba View Post
Felt like it went on way too long compared to the flow of the previous arcs.
That's because it is longer. It's the longest fight in the series upto that point, especially when you look it as being split into two - Goku vs Freeza and then super saiyan fight.
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Old 2010-06-16, 17:33   Link #2131
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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^ Exactly. The entirety of the Goku vs. Frieza fight was 20 chapters in the manga, which was by far the longest one-on-one battle in the whole story. Kai's adaptation of this fight is 10 episodes. I don't see a problem with the pacing here.
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Old 2010-06-16, 20:56   Link #2132
MushroomSamba
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
^ Exactly. The entirety of the Goku vs. Frieza fight was 20 chapters in the manga, which was by far the longest one-on-one battle in the whole story. Kai's adaptation of this fight is 10 episodes. I don't see a problem with the pacing here.
I dunno, for me, the Freeza battle doesn't really feel any less sluggish simply by saying "it was like that in the manga". It provides justification, but not necessarily a remedy. I just chalk it up as an unfortunate side effect of trying to build a castle with someone else's legos.
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Old 2010-06-17, 06:23   Link #2133
Vegard Aune
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
^ Exactly. The entirety of the Goku vs. Frieza fight was 20 chapters in the manga, which was by far the longest one-on-one battle in the whole story. Kai's adaptation of this fight is 10 episodes. I don't see a problem with the pacing here.
One chapter of the manga very rarely provides enough material for 10 minutes of the anime without dragging things out. Heck, there are some chapters that barely have enough material for 2 minutes. I feel that Toei is doing this whole thing the wrong way. Keeping filler like Bulma and Ginyu because those scenes overlapped with canon material? They've shown several times that they're perfectly willing to reanimate scenes, so that really shouldn't be an issue at all. They could just reanimate the scenes without any references to the fillers.
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Old 2010-06-17, 07:18   Link #2134
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So much for a filler free version they kept yaping about... That is why Kai is a big failure for me.

And by the way, how strong is the lord of the dead Enma? Kami said Kaio is stronger than him yet he keeps supressing all the far more powerful villains that go there and sends them to hell? Or that is filler too and all villains are imediately stripped of their bodies and powers when they die?
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Old 2010-06-17, 07:47   Link #2135
Shiroth
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So much for a filler free version they kept yaping about... That is why Kai is a big failure for me.
Regarding the obvious reason as to why they can't remove 100% of the filler, i'd say they're doing a mighty fine job of Kai. I mean the past 5 episodes of the Android arc are a great example.
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Old 2010-06-17, 07:56   Link #2136
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Originally Posted by Vegard Aune View Post
They've shown several times that they're perfectly willing to reanimate scenes
Could you give some examples? Aside from the special effects of the attacks and auras, the only thing I've seen redone is the gore, and even that's pretty minimal.
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Old 2010-06-17, 08:13   Link #2137
Vegard Aune
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Could you give some examples? Aside from the special effects of the attacks and auras, the only thing I've seen redone is the gore, and even that's pretty minimal.
Vegeta and Nappa's introduction was reanimated to correct the color of Vegeta's hair and armor. There also seem to be a few reanimated shots in most episodes, but for the most part, they're just traced over the old material, so I'm not quite sure why they even bother.
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Old 2010-06-17, 08:30   Link #2138
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by Vegard Aune View Post
One chapter of the manga very rarely provides enough material for 10 minutes of the anime without dragging things out. Heck, there are some chapters that barely have enough material for 2 minutes. I feel that Toei is doing this whole thing the wrong way. Keeping filler like Bulma and Ginyu because those scenes overlapped with canon material? They've shown several times that they're perfectly willing to reanimate scenes, so that really shouldn't be an issue at all. They could just reanimate the scenes without any references to the fillers.
We've talked about this before. It's much quicker to read something than it is to watch something. You're making a direct correlation between the two in terms of time, and it doesn't work that way.

And "reanimate" really isn't the correct word to use here. At most, they'll trace over the original animation. That's completely different from actually redoing a scene with new animation and artwork entirely. All they're doing is slightly modifying the original source work. What you're asking for is not feasible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegard Aune View Post
Vegeta and Nappa's introduction was reanimated to correct the color of Vegeta's hair and armor.
That was simply an error they fixed, which has nothing to do with actual pacing.
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Old 2010-06-17, 08:45   Link #2139
Vegard Aune
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
We've talked about this before. It's much quicker to read something than it is to watch something. You're making a direct correlation between the two in terms of time, and it doesn't work that way.
I know. That still doesn't change the fact that one 15-page chapter of Dragonball rarely has enough material in it for 10 minutes of animation, especially during action-heavy chapters.
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Old 2010-06-17, 09:04   Link #2140
ChainLegacy
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Why not? Watching a fight in real time would obviously include more details than watching one in a comic-style. You can't show as much detail in a comic/manga as you can in animated form, thus the fights are sometimes a bit longer. Even completely faithful anime adaptations will sometimes stretch scenes to make them fit better to the animated medium. Kai is supposed to be a 'director's cut,' and I think we're getting what was promised. No more, no less, but still pretty damn epic if you ask me.
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