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Old 2009-08-17, 00:06   Link #61
DJ Trouble
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There are a lot of different paths for different endings right? I remember in the anime the main guy's best friend was joking about seeking a harem end. Was there one in the game or was that just poking fun at the genre?
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Old 2009-08-17, 01:46   Link #62
izmosmolnar
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Five routes as far as I know. Here's a walkthrough if you or someone else needs one.
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Last edited by izmosmolnar; 2009-08-18 at 11:36. Reason: corrected myself.
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Old 2009-08-17, 14:36   Link #63
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Originally Posted by izmosmolnar View Post
Five routes, but no harem end of course. Here's a walkthrough if you or someone else needs one.
Depends on your definition of "harem end." There aren't any routes where you get scenes with multiple girls (well, unless you count the sub-route), but there is one ending where it is basically stated that you'll get four of the girls.
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Old 2009-08-18, 11:35   Link #64
izmosmolnar
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Oh in that case my apologies, I didn't know there is a harem sort of ending, and the walkthrough haven't indicated any. I edit my earlier post in that case.
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Old 2009-08-19, 23:29   Link #65
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Last edited by HashiriyaR32; 2009-08-19 at 23:33. Reason: Tired rant, PM me if you want to know what WAS here.
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Old 2009-08-23, 03:23   Link #66
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Ok how do you get the harem ending then? O_o.
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Old 2009-08-23, 12:17   Link #67
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Ok how do you get the harem ending then? O_o.
As I said, it depends on your definition of "harem end." One of the route endings just so happens to naturally include the implication that Rin will end up with four of the girls. Unless my understanding was completely wrong. My Japanese isn't perfect, but it sounded like a harem end to me.

Spoiler for Harem End:
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Old 2009-08-23, 22:12   Link #68
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By the way, I wanted to up my rating of the script quality of the MangaGamer version of the work a little bit after completing two paths. It might be that I've gotten used to it (or that it got a bit better as it went), but on the whole I think it's actually pretty good. There's a bit of wonkiness here and there, along with some rigid-sounding lines, but it's perfectly serviceable.

That being said, re-playing the game reminded me of how times have changed for eroge over the last 6-7 years. I realize that Shuffle's strong point has always been the characters and concept, and less the storytelling, but even still, there are a lot of elements that feel like a blast from the past. In particular, newer games seem to have a greater emphasis on having large story arcs that connect over multiple days and characters in the common path, whereas Shuffle has more of a "vignette" style. Each day has a little standalone story that focuses on one heroine, which become more and more focused on that one heroine as you move towards one of the paths. That's somewhat reminiscent of even older games that had you manage your schedule and pick where you wanted to go (in order to trigger an encounter). On the negative side, this old-school approach means you have a lot of "orphened" plot lines (and little story segments that seem to only exist to unlock a CG), but on the plus side, the game itself is much more "to the point". I'm sure if Shuffle were re-imagined today, it'd be at least 2 or 3 times the length even without adding a ton of plot points (and I suppose that could either be a plus or a minus, depending on how you look at it -- sometimes I feel many newer eroge are needlessly dragged-out, especially in the middle section).

So anyway, it's been fun to go through the game again. I guess this time I might actually try to complete all the paths...
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Old 2009-08-25, 16:48   Link #69
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
By the way, I wanted to up my rating of the script quality of the MangaGamer version of the work a little bit after completing two paths. It might be that I've gotten used to it (or that it got a bit better as it went), but on the whole I think it's actually pretty good. There's a bit of wonkiness here and there, along with some rigid-sounding lines, but it's perfectly serviceable.
Honestly, I think it would have been pretty good with one more pass by an editor. You correctly pointed out that some awkwardness and poor choice of words remained. Those rough spots made it pretty clear that it was translated by a native speaker of Japanese (also, the occasional misuse of the indefinite article). There were also a couple of obvious mistranslations that should have been caught, given the visual context; I assume that the script was worked on separately. All in all though, most of the lines were fine. The script was certainly understandable and readable. And given we're they started a year ago, I like how far they've come. Anyway, I think the market is too small to demand perfection.

Also, they did ask for help last winter, and I did not volunteer. ^^U

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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
That being said, re-playing the game reminded me of how times have changed for eroge over the last 6-7 years. [...] Each day has a little standalone story that focuses on one heroine, which become more and more focused on that one heroine as you move towards one of the paths. That's somewhat reminiscent of even older games that had you manage your schedule and pick where you wanted to go (in order to trigger an encounter). [...] I'm sure if Shuffle were re-imagined today, it'd be at least 2 or 3 times the length even without adding a ton of plot points [...]
One of my main complaints about Shuffle! is that it's too short. Also, I would have liked more choices. I may be biased, but I appreciate the length of some of the older titles. I wish Navel would have fleshed the characters out more.
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Old 2009-08-25, 22:14   Link #70
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Originally Posted by Draneor View Post
Honestly, I think it would have been pretty good with one more pass by an editor. You correctly pointed out that some awkwardness and poor choice of words remained. Those rough spots made it pretty clear that it was translated by a native speaker of Japanese (also, the occasional misuse of the indefinite article). There were also a couple of obvious mistranslations that should have been caught, given the visual context; I assume that the script was worked on separately. All in all though, most of the lines were fine. The script was certainly understandable and readable. And given we're they started a year ago, I like how far they've come. Anyway, I think the market is too small to demand perfection.
Yeah, you've nailed it here. If they're aiming for true "professional quality", then another aggressive editing pass would have definitely helped the script a lot (especially editing in context, as you said -- if they really did work on the script separately from the visuals/audio, then that would indeed explain some of the odd errors). But given the size of the market and the therefore-limited budget, this isn't bad.

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Originally Posted by Draneor View Post
Also, they did ask for help last winter, and I did not volunteer. ^^U
Well, yes... there is that. The problem is that editing is, as we all know, a pretty thankless work. If you do your job well, no one will ever know you existed. And the amount of time it takes to truly do the job well is astronomical (vs. the amount of time it takes to do it "passably well"). It's not something I'm too quick to volunteer for anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draneor View Post
One of my main complaints about Shuffle! is that it's too short. Also, I would have liked more choices. I may be biased, but I appreciate the length of some of the older titles. I wish Navel would have fleshed the characters out more.
I agree with this too, and I'm actually starting to understand why the anime team made some of the story modifications they did. It feels like the game is full of interesting concepts, but they only had the time to scratch the surface. And in some cases, when they did start dealing with a topic, they set it aside and never really finished the thought. As I alluded to before, sometimes I wonder whether the CG or the story surrounding it came first in the production process. It's sort of a weird game like that. Then again, I felt the same way about Agobaria's work on Nostradamus (for Lime), and hear that Stellar Theatre is somewhat similar in that respect. So this could just be a sort of quirk/limitation of the writer more than anything else.

Anyway, it all leads me to wonder what sort of expansion we might see for the existing characters in the upcoming re-release, especially given that they have a new author working on the story. I think they certainly have material to work with, anyway, so we'll see...
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Old 2009-10-14, 01:09   Link #71
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Wow only get around to playing this one long after the anime wrapped up. Oh well comments are valid no matter the time....probably . Know there is a re-release coming so thought I should get some thoughts down now before they are out of date.
Spoiler for Lisianthus route:
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Old 2009-11-23, 22:55   Link #72
mmcd
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hey guys
im new the the hole shuffle! thing and i was woundering if you guys could help me out, i just finished watching all of the episodes and i loved them all.
i came across them by accident, i was looking for a b-day present for my mother (which was going to be an ipod shuffle lol) and i happend to find a picture of sia. i was intrigued and looked into it more.
anyways i was woundering if anyone could explain to me what these games are based around and how many and whick one's should a get.. and also if any are in english lol
- thank alot
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Old 2009-11-24, 08:32   Link #73
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The game world & storyline are an original creation by Navel, they're not really "based" on anything.

The only game translated into English at this time is the original Shuffle! game, which is available through MangaGamer.

Currently there is no word on any fan translation attempts on the other three games in the franchise. For that matter, I view any such news with high suspicion considering the only supposed translation project for the original game has yet to show any work or progress of any kind whatsoever. Just a lot of empty promises and talk.

But I digress. Of the games the only ones really worthwhile, IMO, are the original Shuffle!, Really? Really! (which is a continuation of one of the girls' routes but in a totally different style of game) and the new game Shuffle! Essence+ (which is a re-make of the original with added scenes, more heroines and some much more complicated and interesting storylines). Don't bother with Tick! Tack!. It, like R?R! is a continuation of one of the girls' routes, but the game itself leaves a lot to be desired.
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Old 2009-11-24, 20:34   Link #74
Ricky Controversy
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I'm a recent initiate into the mysteries of Shuffle!, and yes, I am aware I'm pretty late catching the boat. I've never played any visual novels before, and I wouldn't have played this one if I hadn't watched the series in a marathon last week with my best friend. I thoroughly enjoyed the anime: despite the beginning feeling fairly generic, the individual characterization and storytelling picked up rapidly and built to a rather enjoyable climax. Afterwards, I decided to check out the game as A) I've had a curiosity about visual novels for some time, having seen them being played and heard much about them and B) I felt familiar enough with the cast of characters to not feel entirely adrift in the new genre.

At the moment, I have only completed the Kaede route, and am working on the Nerine route. Here are some thoughts:

Spoiler for spoiled a few years later...:
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Old 2009-11-25, 07:06   Link #75
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As others have noted, the original game really felt like it could have done more; more character interactions, more story and more opportunities to flesh out certain aspects of the characters. I agree with Ricky Controversy in that the ideas Navel had for the 'verse were really quite interesting but didn't get used apart from setting Rin up with the girls. They Wasted A Perfectly Good Plot there.

That said it's still one of my favourite games.
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Old 2009-11-29, 23:24   Link #76
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Originally Posted by Ricky Controversy View Post
I'm a recent initiate into the mysteries of Shuffle!, and yes, I am aware I'm pretty late catching the boat. I've never played any visual novels before, and I wouldn't have played this one if I hadn't watched the series in a marathon last week with my best friend. I thoroughly enjoyed the anime: despite the beginning feeling fairly generic, the individual characterization and storytelling picked up rapidly and built to a rather enjoyable climax. Afterwards, I decided to check out the game as A) I've had a curiosity about visual novels for some time, having seen them being played and heard much about them and B) I felt familiar enough with the cast of characters to not feel entirely adrift in the new genre.

At the moment, I have only completed the Kaede route, and am working on the Nerine route. Here are some thoughts:

Spoiler for spoiled a few years later...:
Particularly with the "in a bubble" problem - this hyper-simplistic game logic design is endemic to many date simulation games. They completely ignore the consequences of your choices and how the other girls might react. So in effect they're more like "date fantasy" rather than "date simulation". When I discovered this years ago, the appeal of the games dropped considerably. I've seen more complex paperback "choose your adventure" efforts.
Girls don't just hang in limbo when you start lurching towards a particular one. In this series especially, they should be interacting with each other constantly as well as with the protagonist - in that regard, the game construction is an utter failure for anyone who has the least clue about "how romance really works" I usually applaud any anime adaptation that takes the material and tries something novel or more life-like with it.

Its a shame... there's all sorts of potential in the Shuffle universe for complex character/player/character interaction. And the Shuffle! universe has this neat "3 worlds" sci-fi thing going along with the varying social mores (e.g. "harems=a-ok" in two worlds) that are created and then just left laying there on the floor. Notice there is no actual "harem ending" in the game, though its explicitly stated that Sia and Nerine are fine with the concept.

That's one point I'll give the anime -- they took a shot at more realistic interaction (Kaede's meltdown and Nerine's "heading my own way now that I'm free of my obligation") but it kind of blew up because of the poor integration with the Asa arc (and Asa's logic-error-filled storyline).
But the production team problems with that have been discussed to death ..

Navel put together some really interesting character design, an interesting premise -- and then literally face-planted the rest of it. (sigh).

Last edited by Vexx; 2009-11-29 at 23:48. Reason: clarifying
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Old 2009-11-30, 01:51   Link #77
Ricky Controversy
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Particularly with the "in a bubble" problem - this hyper-simplistic game logic design is endemic to many date simulation games. They completely ignore the consequences of your choices and how the other girls might react. So in effect they're more like "date fantasy" rather than "date simulation". When I discovered this years ago, the appeal of the games dropped considerably. I've seen more complex paperback "choose your adventure" efforts.

Girls don't just hang in limbo when you start lurching towards a particular one. In this series especially, they should be interacting with each other constantly as well as with the protagonist - in that regard, the game construction is an utter failure for anyone who has the least clue about "how romance really works" I usually applaud any anime adaptation that takes the material and tries something novel or more life-like with it.
Yeah. Which is what I'd heard previously about this sort of game, but the anime hit a resonance with me, so I figured the game would be worth a look. It's interesting enough to leave me wanting more, but not good enough to leave me feeling even temporarily satisfied in the interim.


Quote:
Its a shame... there's all sorts of potential in the Shuffle universe for complex character/player/character interaction. And the Shuffle! universe has this neat "3 worlds" sci-fi thing going along with the varying social mores (e.g. "harems=a-ok" in two worlds) that are created and then just left laying there on the floor. Notice there is no actual "harem ending" in the game, though its explicitly stated that Sia and Nerine are fine with the concept.

That's one point I'll give the anime -- they took a shot at more realistic interaction (Kaede's meltdown and Nerine's "heading my own way now that I'm free of my obligation") but it kind of blew up because of the poor integration with the Asa arc (and Asa's logic-error-filled storyline).
But the production team problems with that have been discussed to death ..

Navel put together some really interesting character design, an interesting premise -- and then literally face-planted the rest of it. (sigh).
Right. I absolutely agree. To that end, I'm actually plotting out a novelization of Shuffle! right now that I will undertake when my current project is done. I think I've got something real solid worked out, and if you're interested, I'd be more than happy to share (via PM, of course), what I've got so far, maybe get some feedback from a fellow fan.
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Old 2009-12-02, 14:42   Link #78
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I should say that Shuffle is a rather old game now (even though it was recently re-released with added content), and the sort of brief, barely-scratch-the-surface, tunnel vision plot problems are pretty major signs of the times. I would say that, in the time since, there has been a marked trend in the industry (at least the story-oriented part of it) towards more in-depth storytelling, better cast interactions, and better integrating the premise into the rest of the story. Some of the games I've played from this year, for example, have done exceptionally well in that regard. So I think the writing overall is "growing up" a bit along with the industry. It's probably also evolving with people's expectations.

I should also say that some of this is, in fact, about the specific writer as well. I've noticed this same writing style/trend in all his works: lots of interesting ideas that get marred by rushed execution. In fact, I've played games where he is part of a larger writing team, and it's gotten to the point where I can pretty much recognize the parts of the story that he wrote because the style and pacing is so distinct. Obviously he keeps getting work because he does have good ideas, but it's almost as if he should just be the "idea man" and let other people actually do the plot development based on it.

So yeah, anyway, I think the reason Shuffle has remained relatively popular is because people loved the characters and the concepts, and there's a lot that can be done with it. But I do agree that it feels like it hasn't been really used to its potential at this point, and so probably never will be (at least in any official capacity). (Though I should say, the manga was rather fun in its own way.)
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Old 2010-06-17, 18:37   Link #79
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SHUFFLE! OP Japanese Help.

So, near the end of the opening video for SHUFFLE!, there are these Japanese words that I can't seem to translate. I was wondering if anyone could translate these words into English... If you don't know what I'm talking about, here are the photos:





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Old 2010-06-19, 16:43   Link #80
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So, near the end of the opening video for SHUFFLE!, there are these Japanese words that I can't seem to translate. I was wondering if anyone could translate these words into English...
The words are:
ずっと、笑っていたかった
笑っていて欲しかった
だから

Which roughly translates to:

I always wanted to smile...
To smile is what I wished for...
So...
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