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Old 2010-06-20, 04:49   Link #241
physics223
In the Tatami Galaxy ↓
 
 
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Originally Posted by Raiza Sunozaki View Post
I was really impressed by this episode. Last episode gave us a definite confirmation of Watashi's determination, but as it is in the Tatami Galaxy, the episode that follows another is as much a contradiction of the previous as it is a continuation. I found this was stressed more so in this episode, as Watashi's determination definitely carries on, but his determination is misled by temptation and corruption that he ends up backtracking farther than he got in three episodes of advancing.
This has been the theme throughout the nine episodes. Each succeeding episode is a reaction to the previous one. It must be noted that he already attained the rose-colored life he imagined this episode: he was beside many beautiful women, popular, and known in the university. The problem is, the rose-colored life is the only thing he thinks he wants and he alienates what his heart really desires.

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Throughout the three women arc, he slowly and steadily was given increasingly obvious hints that his happiness, if not his beloved rose-coloured life, was always there in front of him, waiting for him to grasp it. As several people have said before, for Watashi, happiness does not lie in his goal, his "rose-coloured campus life." In fact, there is never any happiness to be found at the end of a trek. That is satisfaction. Happiness is found along the way, something that must be looked for, not received. And if you have been successful in looking for happiness, once you reach your satisfaction, happiness will be there for you, but not because you finished.
Happiness does not lie in his goal because it is impossible to attain. The journey is only a celebration of pain and suffering because his target is an impossibility. It is not something that can be realized through hardwork, passion, or patience: it is just something that is unreachable.

His mind obstructs what his heart already sees. He denies reality because he wants to chase the impossible. He uses his choices as his excuse to not face reality, but when he runs out of choices and sees the truth about Ozu he still cannot face it.


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As physics has mentioned, Higuchi's line on the rose-coloured campus life (or the lack of it) was brilliant and shows the man's carefree ingenuity. But I found the scene showed more of Watashi's inability to accept reality over his rose-coloured reality. While he was abducted shortly after, it felt like he was only along for the ride, not doing anything, not trying to do anything, just watching. He couldn't accept that this was reality, so he rejected it and did nothing.
And in the end, he shut himself away in his own tatami galaxy.
Mmhmm.

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On a side note, I'm hoping this series will have a happy end, but looking at Watashi's cowardly and incompetent personality, I'm starting to have my doubts.
It will. I have faith.

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Originally Posted by Theowne View Post
Tatami Galaxy truly just keeps getting better and better. I echo all the sentiments about the speeches and monologue towards the end. And I also really loved how they tied the 3-women arc back to Akashi. I hope so much that the ending will be as wonderful as it deserves to be....my anticipation and expectation is high. I think we have a new benchmark for underappreciated gems...
I don't like to jinx the series I watch since it was tragic with what happened to Toradora. But I am as hopeful as you are.

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Also lets leave the comparisons away....Cross Game and Tatami Galaxy are both great series for different reasons....
I never said they weren't!

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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
I really doubt that cowardice and incompetence is really his core personality. If his actions have shown anything, often skewed and misdirected as they are, it's that when it comes down to a getting his rose-colored utopia he will do what it takes and not back down even if he has to resort to devious ends. If he really was an incompetent coward then he would have fucked up his life at the start and wallowed into despair for the rest of every episode. It's really only in episode 9 that his despair at his condition really manifested into something concrete that all of us can see.
I am sorry, he is quite a coward. He is determined, driven, and passionate, but he's always been a coward with his different incarnations and that is the reason why he has not yet grabbed upon the opportunity that hangs in front of him. He is a coward because he cannot face reality and only escape to impossible ideals. I'm not knocking on his diligence: he is very much persistent and hard-working, but it does not change the fact that he is a coward. If he wasn't, he wouldn't escape into the excuse of a different choice or a possibility but face life head on. By finally choosing to face real world and the demons that pervade it can he only be called to be decisive and thus courageous.
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Old 2010-06-20, 05:07   Link #242
MeoTwister5
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I am sorry, he is quite a coward. He is determined, driven, and passionate, but he's always been a coward with his different incarnations and that is the reason why he has not yet grabbed upon the opportunity that hangs in front of him. He is a coward because he cannot face reality and only escape to impossible ideals. I'm not knocking on his diligence: he is very much persistent and hard-working, but it does not change the fact that he is a coward. If he wasn't, he wouldn't escape into the excuse of a different choice or a possibility but face life head on. By finally choosing to face real world and the demons that pervade it can he only be called to be decisive and thus courageous.
But here's the difference: Does he SEE the alternative opportunity he can grab as the fortune-teller always says but chooses the cowards way out by ignoring the road not traveled for the road he wants to travel, or does he NOT SEE it simply because his single-minded focus for the road he wants to travel blinds him to any and all alternatives?

The closest he came to seeking a way out was his change of perspective and actions in episode 9 by choosing the money. So far I haven't seen anything from him that shows he is conscious of his alternatives, only in some sense unconsciously (the Mochiguman, his despair at the end, etc.). During Higuchi's parting words of wisdom by the riverside you could see hear Watashi's single-minded insistence on his rose-colored life and achieving it by any means necessary. If anything, he failed to understand the things Higuchi tried to tell him before it was too late because it's just possible he simply sees no other path, not necessarily because he ignores it. The deviation from his usual path he had this time was resignation to despair, which again we assume will turn him into a NEET for episode 10.

As it stands I won't call him a coward just yet because to me, he simply has just not realized that there IS another path his life can take. Hell I'd say the potential NEET approach for episode 10 would be the most cowardly thing he could do at this point.
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Old 2010-06-20, 05:42   Link #243
physics223
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Remember the Cycling Club Soleil? He realizes that there is an alternative opportunity from 14:21-14:34. But he, once again, escapes into his ideal during 14:36. He in fact grabs the Mochiguman from the central axis of his room.

He is a coward. This was also shown in episode nine, when he ran away instead of standing up for Kaori. In the event that he finally escapes this cowardice will real progress of his character start.
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Old 2010-06-20, 06:07   Link #244
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Originally Posted by physics223 View Post
Remember the Cycling Club Soleil? He realizes that there is an alternative opportunity from 14:21-14:34. But he, once again, escapes into his ideal during 14:36. He in fact grabs the Mochiguman from the central axis of his room.

He is a coward. This was also shown in episode nine, when he ran away instead of standing up for Kaori. In the event that he finally escapes this cowardice will real progress of his character start.
First, though, he has to accept and perhaps, embrace his cowardice? How better than to shut oneself off from the world.

As is the usual pattern of overcompensation, it would set up a final episode 11 where he decides to act bravely...
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Old 2010-06-20, 18:15   Link #245
physics223
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When he fails and is left by himself in his small room, he often asks the question: 'where is the one responsible?' He never admits his own failures as a person, whether it is with his indecisiveness (another form of cowardice) or just cowardice. We believed he made some progress by admitting it was his fault in the Honwaka episode, but he backtracked more than he moved forward, especially by alienating the only person who has shown uncorrupted concern for him in the previous episodes.

It's all up to him now.
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Old 2010-06-21, 09:05   Link #246
Raiza Sunozaki
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Originally Posted by physics223 View Post
When he fails and is left by himself in his small room, he often asks the question: 'where is the one responsible?' He never admits his own failures as a person, whether it is with his indecisiveness (another form of cowardice) or just cowardice. We believed he made some progress by admitting it was his fault in the Honwaka episode, but he backtracked more than he moved forward, especially by alienating the only person who has shown uncorrupted concern for him in the previous episodes.

It's all up to him now.
Which is the foundations of my doubts. We have rarely ever seen Watashi act on his nobler morals, as they are usually blocked by his cowardice. Even more so, we have seen this episode that he can act on his less-moral desires, and can become quite successful through them. He even thinks for a while that he is approaching his "rose-coloured capus life." Fortunately, Akashi literally slaps some sense into him, and Higuchi brings him to realization that he was on the wrong path.
So unaided, Watashi can attain corrupted happiness much easier than he can attain the pure happiness that Ozu aquires easily. Why? Because pure happiness requires risk. We have seen that in all the insane things that Ozu has done over the two years. Attacking students with fireworks, technically illegally "cleaning up bikes," hijacking a blimp; all these things have plenty of risks with the law and personal safety, which Ozu is able to risk. Watashi cannot do these things on his own, and must have Ozu help him (though it's usually him helping Ozu) in doing them.
In order for Watashi to gain pure happiness, he must be able to risk something, which goes against almost everything we've seen of him. Which is why I doubt a happy end for him. I wish him the best though.

Either way, I'll still be satisfied with this show's brilliance. Definitely picking this one up on hard copy.
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Old 2010-06-22, 03:06   Link #247
jorez
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Quite the unique anime this is.
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Old 2010-06-22, 11:46   Link #248
physics223
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Originally Posted by Raiza Sunozaki View Post
Which is the foundations of my doubts. We have rarely ever seen Watashi act on his nobler morals, as they are usually blocked by his cowardice. Even more so, we have seen this episode that he can act on his less-moral desires, and can become quite successful through them. He even thinks for a while that he is approaching his "rose-coloured capus life." Fortunately, Akashi literally slaps some sense into him, and Higuchi brings him to realization that he was on the wrong path.
I try to explore more about Higuchi's role here, but to summarize I think of him as a foil especially with the recent episode. It must be noted, however, that Watashi acts with reservation even in his most amoral role he's taken since the show started. He's acted with virtue before, as what was seen in the Cycling Club Soleil episode: despite all odds, he persisted. I think that is virtue in itself; the tragedy is that it's simply misguided.

While part of it may have been due to cowardice, his incident with Hanuki in the sixth episode was also acted upon by him quite virtuously: he recognized she was not in the right mind, and planned to wait until after she became less inebriated.

He has acted virtuously beforehand: it's just that in this episode he has really fallen low. It was his nadir, and he can't go anywhere else but up. The red string of fate is nigh breaking point; the black string (of excuse) was already cut.

It's still all up to him.

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So unaided, Watashi can attain corrupted happiness much easier than he can attain the pure happiness that Ozu aquires easily. Why? Because pure happiness requires risk. We have seen that in all the insane things that Ozu has done over the two years. Attacking students with fireworks, technically illegally "cleaning up bikes," hijacking a blimp; all these things have plenty of risks with the law and personal safety, which Ozu is able to risk. Watashi cannot do these things on his own, and must have Ozu help him (though it's usually him helping Ozu) in doing them.

In order for Watashi to gain pure happiness, he must be able to risk something, which goes against almost everything we've seen of him. Which is why I doubt a happy end for him. I wish him the best though.
That is why we hope. One of the best things about man is that he can change if he wills himself to. We have already seen shades in Watashi: all he needs is to go at it all the way.

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Either way, I'll still be satisfied with this show's brilliance. Definitely picking this one up on hard copy.
I will pick this up as well, when it does come up.

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Originally Posted by zeroj
Quite the unique anime this is.
I told you so. Glad my persuasion has taken root.
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Old 2010-06-22, 12:59   Link #249
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I told you so. Glad my persuasion has taken root.
lol no. I never take recommendations and not planning to do it soon anyway. You said The Tatami Galaxy in IRC which just sounded unknown to me, as I already wanted to watch the new anime by Masaaki Yuasa this season; I just didn't know when was it supossed to air and I started watching it 6 weeks after it began airing.
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Old 2010-06-24, 04:18   Link #250
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One other thought: Does anyone else think it might be more than coincidence that the name "Neko Ramen" and "Lucky Cat Chinese Restaurant" both have to do with cats?
Remember is was the master of the Neko Ramen stand who saved Ozu and Watashi from Honwaka and Aijima mysteriously... I think that the master of Neko Ramen is actually the "big boss" of the Lucky Cat Chinese Restaurant. He knew all about the history of the proxy-proxy war, too...
A little late on this, but just wanted to post some thoughts on episode 9.
http://fungafufu.wordpress.com/2010/...se-restaurant/

Specifically, the parallels you can find between "Neko Hanten" - the secret society - and "Neko Ramen" - Watashi's usual hangout. I believe the naming is no coincidence - Chinese restaurants in Japan usually serve a number of ramen dishes as main entrees. This links them very well thematically - one is "authentic" ramen, and the other "inauthentic" ramen - but more on that in the post.

Last edited by vendredi; 2010-06-24 at 04:38.
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Old 2010-06-24, 04:25   Link #251
physics223
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Never expected you to be a member here, but I just left a comment. Nice parallelisms were drawn with the Neko Hanten and Neko Ramen.

Thanks.
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Old 2010-06-24, 04:36   Link #252
vendredi
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Membership here comes in handy now an again, although most of my posts have been related to the Umineko VN. It's great to see so many people discussing Tatami Galaxy in here though, didn't realize it was this lively.
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Old 2010-06-24, 04:39   Link #253
MeoTwister5
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Originally Posted by vendredi View Post
A little late on this, but just wanted to post some thoughts on episode 9.
http://fungafufu.wordpress.com/2010/...se-restaurant/

Specifically, the parallels you can find between "Neko Hanten" - the secret society - and "Neko Ramen" - Watashi's usual hangout. I believe the naming is no coincidence - Chinese restaurants in Japan usually serve a number of ramen dishes as main entrees. This links them very well thematically - one is "authentic" ramen, and the other "inauthentic" ramen - but more on that in the post.
How oddly fascinating. Too bad I won't be seeing episode 10 on time because I have a 6am-6pm overnight duty at the hospital this Friday.
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Old 2010-06-24, 23:22   Link #254
physics223
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The episode was extremely heavy and cerebral. It was extremely somber and sobering. It was still a beautiful episode.

Here are my elaborated thoughts on the episode: Episode 10 Analysis and Reflections. I tried making as much connections with the episode as possible, while pointing out that the stylistic change contributes to the mood that the episode had. To properly rise and get back up, after all, one must know that he's fallen in the first place.

Last edited by physics223; 2010-06-25 at 09:32.
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Old 2010-06-25, 10:52   Link #255
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I loved the atmosphere of episode 10. It played out more or less as I expected, but it was nonetheless fascinating thanks to the narritive and directing. This episode felt so short...

The only downside was the lack of Akashi and Ozu. I can't belive there is only episode left... it was a great ride. Now, go and grab that Mochiguman, Watashi!
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Old 2010-06-25, 11:10   Link #256
physics223
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I didn't like it as much as the revelatory eighth episode, but it was good in its own right. He knows about reality now. All he needs is to grab what is in front of him.
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Old 2010-06-25, 11:16   Link #257
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All he needs is to grab what is in front of him.
Yeah it's about time he listened to the old woman's words.
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Old 2010-06-25, 14:02   Link #258
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Yeah it's about time he listened to the old woman's words.
Well, he did a whole lot of grabbing what was sticking out in front of him in episode 10 and it didn't seem to do him much good in the end
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Old 2010-06-25, 20:52   Link #259
physics223
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He didn't actually grab that which mattered! Haha.
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:19   Link #260
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Yeah it's about time he listened to the old woman's words.
And he better actually do it or this show will have a troll ending
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