AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Nanoha

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-06-20, 19:24   Link #2121
PhoenixFlare
The Resurrector
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
Hm, I am still not entirely convinced, because their is no definite examples proving either point, but from the purely logical (albeit speculative) point of view, the argumentation for magic energy being potentially harmful to organics is sounder than the contrary.
They are speculative because the series has shown differing results thus far -- from being lethal to mere stun effects.

I would suppose if you want a "definitive" proof, Nanoha, if I remember correctly, could break off roots (purely organic matters, unless the Jewel Seed somehow managed to make it non-organic -_-) from a mutant tree with her magic shots in Season 1.
PhoenixFlare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-20, 19:43   Link #2122
al103
Grumpy Russian bear
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Russia, Krasnoyarsk
Age: 33
Send a message via ICQ to al103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
Kinetic effect is still an effect: the target is thrown across the room and can break their neck but that is true for any fall. On the other hand, we don't see bruises resulting from magical impact itself.
There was no even single time of unprotected target. "It's magic" here better suited for barrier jackets, not attack spells. After all bullets nothing more than kinetic strike too - and with area of effect small enough and speed high enough magical attack with kinetic side effect would do damage as like bullet on the top of normal.
__________________
Proud Nanoha/Yuno/Fate, Caro/Elio/Lutecia, Alto/Sheril/Ranka and Honor/Hamish/Emily shipper. Last one even canon.

PS. Also Nanoha/job, Honor/job and Rein/Agito.
PPS. Proud Athrun/Cagalli/Meyrin shipper.
al103 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-21, 00:30   Link #2123
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixFlare View Post
I would suppose if you want a "definitive" proof, Nanoha, if I remember correctly, could break off roots (purely organic matters, unless the Jewel Seed somehow managed to make it non-organic -_-) from a mutant tree with her magic shots in Season 1.
Now that you mention this one, Fate killed the big worm-thingy bondaging Signum in A's with magic. Signum even complains to Fate about killing it.
__________________
Keroko is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-21, 00:36   Link #2124
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
And if you desire more evidence of magic being capable of causing damage to a living creature, Chrono's Stinger Blade Execution Shift managed to stab into Zafira's arm, piercing flesh. Just like Fate's attack on the sand worm did.
__________________

Last edited by Rising Dragon; 2010-06-21 at 04:21.
Rising Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-21, 00:58   Link #2125
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
Speaking of Zafira, his howl-blades also worked hust fine at piercing those worm-thingies from the berserk program at the end of A's.
__________________
Keroko is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-21, 02:14   Link #2126
PhoenixFlare
The Resurrector
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Speaking of Zafira, his howl-blades also worked hust fine at piercing those worm-thingies from the berserk program at the end of A's.
You can't say that, Keroko! Those worm-thingies are inorganic since they're programs/data.
PhoenixFlare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-21, 03:08   Link #2127
Arkeus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
And if you prefer dialogs, there are multiple instances of main characters saying that they don't think they will manage to control their spells enough to do only non-lethal damage.
Arkeus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-21, 03:53   Link #2128
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
The whole Teana debacle in StrikerS was pretty much about that.
__________________
Keroko is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-21, 06:57   Link #2129
al103
Grumpy Russian bear
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Russia, Krasnoyarsk
Age: 33
Send a message via ICQ to al103
MWUHAHAHAHAHA!!!! DIE NONLETHAL MAGIC BULLSHIT, DIE!!!!!!!!!!

To continue drawing stakes through it's chest - Ancient/Old Belka was time where you would prefer to kill opponent or if (s)he would withdraw, recover and be trouble again, yet there is whole arsenal of pure magic combat spells that Hayate have - Misteltein, Diabolic Emission, Ragnarok (Breaker), etc...

PS. Actually to think of it Hayate could shun personal combat because she simply can't make her best spells nonlethal and if she is not combat-rated nobody would send her to arrest if it's not dire need and she wouldn't need to kill. On other side she is bad in control - so even if they had safe mode she couldn't do it anyway...
__________________
Proud Nanoha/Yuno/Fate, Caro/Elio/Lutecia, Alto/Sheril/Ranka and Honor/Hamish/Emily shipper. Last one even canon.

PS. Also Nanoha/job, Honor/job and Rein/Agito.
PPS. Proud Athrun/Cagalli/Meyrin shipper.

Last edited by al103; 2010-06-21 at 07:08.
al103 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-21, 10:19   Link #2130
MeisterBabylon
~ Ping For Effect ~
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: The Golden Throne
Age: 28
Think of it this way:

Magic = Hand phasers

Phasers fire beams, and have Stun or Kill settings. And even on Stun, hitting someone too many times or hitting a sensitive spot still Kills.

So does magic.

Ignore the rest of the concerns. It is irrelevant.
__________________

On money: Every man has a price. For everything else, there's MakoCard.
MeisterBabylon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-21, 11:26   Link #2131
Koveras Alvane
Mastermind Rational
*Author
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Age: 27
Send a message via ICQ to Koveras Alvane Send a message via MSN to Koveras Alvane
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixFlare View Post
They are speculative because the series has shown differing results thus far -- from being lethal to mere stun effects.
This is what I have been expecting to hear all this time. ^^

Quote:
I would suppose if you want a "definitive" proof, Nanoha, if I remember correctly, could break off roots (purely organic matters, unless the Jewel Seed somehow managed to make it non-organic -_-) from a mutant tree with her magic shots in Season 1.
Not purely: it was reinforced by Jewel Seed energy and magic can destroy magic...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixFlare View Post
You can't say that, Keroko! Those worm-thingies are inorganic since they're programs/data.
So was Zafira back in A's...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Think of it this way:

Magic = Hand phasers

Phasers fire beams, and have Stun or Kill settings. And even on Stun, hitting someone too many times or hitting a sensitive spot still Kills.

So does magic.

Ignore the rest of the concerns. It is irrelevant.
Oh well....
__________________
Koveras Alvane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-21, 16:34   Link #2132
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
*sigh* Allright then, if we're going to be this nitpickery, simple logical question: If magic can't kill, why was magic so widely used in the bloody wars predating the TSAB?

Answer, magic can kill, hence it was used.
__________________
Keroko is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-21, 16:42   Link #2133
Arkeus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
i notice he forgot to mention the many, many times people talked about killing with magic.
Arkeus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-21, 18:59   Link #2134
DKN117
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Whittier, Southern CA
Age: 25
Any conjectures on the TSAB's method of Faster-Than-Light (FTL) travel? It seems to possibly use portals of some sort... Do you think it's a type of hyperspace? Or maybe subspace or sliptream space (Slipspace)? Or something entirely different?

Second: To those of you who know of the Halo verse. Read up on Halopedia's entry on Slipstream Space, and tell me if you think the usage of slipspace, and the methods used by UNSC and Covenant ships to enter and exit the slipstream (noting that UNSC methods for entering slipspace are much more brutish/haphazard/violent than Covenant methods - butcher knife compared to scalpel, and all), would be classified as the "dimensional disturbances" that the TSAB are usually tasked with investigating and mending. And if so, what the TSAB would do in response.

For that matter, how would the TSAB look upon / think about / respond to the practically-one-sided massacre that is the Human-Covenant War? Or the Flood? Or the titanic Lost Logia network that is the Halo Array and the Ark?
DKN117 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-21, 23:41   Link #2135
PhoenixFlare
The Resurrector
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
Not purely: it was reinforced by Jewel Seed energy and magic can destroy magic...
There, you said it. Jewel Seed affected an organic being with magic, which can be destroyed by magic.

Of course, if you want to go deeper and argue about magical lethality, it's very doubtful that a magical transformation would replace an organic being entirely with inorganic materials. The tree would still be partly organic, and magic very effectively killed both magical and natural parts of that mutant.

Besides, why would they need to destroy a "fully magical" being when, I don't know, they can deploy an anti-magic field or something?

Last edited by PhoenixFlare; 2010-06-22 at 00:07.
PhoenixFlare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-22, 09:36   Link #2136
Koveras Alvane
Mastermind Rational
*Author
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Age: 27
Send a message via ICQ to Koveras Alvane Send a message via MSN to Koveras Alvane
My, I sure opened a can of worms with this one. OK, OK, you got the point, magic can be used to kill organics. ^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
*sigh* Allright then, if we're going to be this nitpickery, simple logical question: If magic can't kill, why was magic so widely used in the bloody wars predating the TSAB?

Answer, magic can kill, hence it was used.
Magic is a nifty energy source that doesn't require bulky accumulators or fuel tanks. That would justify its use anywhere. ^^ As for bloody wars, Ancient Belkans used mass-based weaponry which can very well hurt organics. AFAIK half the flashbacks in ViVid feature soldiers with very non-magical swords and armor. ^^
__________________
Koveras Alvane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-22, 10:26   Link #2137
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
My, I sure opened a can of worms with this one. OK, OK, you got the point, magic can be used to kill organics. ^^
Well, on my part it's more that I don't get what you're trying to do. You asked whether magic can kill, we said yes and gave examples, and then you start nitpicking the examples you gave. It's almost like you don't want your question to be answered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
Magic is a nifty energy source that doesn't require bulky accumulators or fuel tanks. That would justify its use anywhere. ^^
That justifies the use of magical energy, not mages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
As for bloody wars, Ancient Belkans used mass-based weaponry which can very well hurt organics. AFAIK half the flashbacks in ViVid feature soldiers with very non-magical swords and armor. ^^
With mages as their leaders.
__________________
Keroko is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-22, 12:59   Link #2138
Koveras Alvane
Mastermind Rational
*Author
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Age: 27
Send a message via ICQ to Koveras Alvane Send a message via MSN to Koveras Alvane
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Well, on my part it's more that I don't get what you're trying to do. You asked whether magic can kill, we said yes and gave examples, and then you start nitpicking the examples you gave. It's almost like you don't want your question to be answered.
I did say I would play the devil's advocate for the sake of the discussion, didn't I? Now I don't anymore.
__________________
Koveras Alvane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-22, 13:09   Link #2139
al103
Grumpy Russian bear
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Russia, Krasnoyarsk
Age: 33
Send a message via ICQ to al103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
I did say I would play the devil's advocate for the sake of the discussion, didn't I? Now I don't anymore.
Which is wrong because it's NOT thread for discussions and theories. There are other threads for that (Magic and Tech in this case). This thread is for facts. If you would talk with facts it would be fitting here, but all you had is "but they did NOT show that it's exactly so and then there is theories 1,2,3,...,10 that..."
__________________
Proud Nanoha/Yuno/Fate, Caro/Elio/Lutecia, Alto/Sheril/Ranka and Honor/Hamish/Emily shipper. Last one even canon.

PS. Also Nanoha/job, Honor/job and Rein/Agito.
PPS. Proud Athrun/Cagalli/Meyrin shipper.
al103 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-22, 14:04   Link #2140
Koveras Alvane
Mastermind Rational
*Author
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Age: 27
Send a message via ICQ to Koveras Alvane Send a message via MSN to Koveras Alvane
Quote:
Originally Posted by al103 View Post
Which is wrong because it's NOT thread for discussions and theories. There are other threads for that (Magic and Tech in this case). This thread is for facts. If you would talk with facts it would be fitting here, but all you had is "but they did NOT show that it's exactly so and then there is theories 1,2,3,...,10 that..."
Well, then forgive me for not reading the rules carefully enough. The new guys on the board always make mistakes, don't we?
__________________
Koveras Alvane is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.