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View Poll Results: Angel Beats! - Episode 13 (END) Rating
Perfect 10 195 43.05%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 82 18.10%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 60 13.25%
7 out of 10 : Good 36 7.95%
6 out of 10 : Average 20 4.42%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 13 2.87%
4 out of 10 : Poor 11 2.43%
3 out of 10 : Bad 7 1.55%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 5 1.10%
1 out of 10 : Painful 24 5.30%
Voters: 453. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-06-25, 22:04   Link #81
rasunin
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Join Date: Jun 2010
heh heh....etch into the soul...echo plasma....nice fitting...

oh well...i guess i have to accept an answer that i have never heard before...***shrug my shoulders
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:04   Link #82
Claies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
1. Yuri said that nobody who commits suicide comes to the school. But...why? It makes no sense now. If they are dead, and they are there at that school to come to terms with their bad life..... then wouldn't there be a ton of suicide victims there?! I mean.... suicide victims I would suspect had unhappy lives and would need to come to terms with their lives, right? They more than anyone were so unhappy with "living" that they ended life themselves.

7. The MATRIX Overseer.... what? Did KEY finally watch the Matrix Reloaded and decid to pay homage? There was hardly any explanation for this or meaning.

8. The Characters in the last episode..... SERIOUSLY?! All of them changed on the dime. I mean, everyone but Hinata changed. You could barely recognize Yuri, Otanashi, or Kanade at all. Did the creators decide to have us suspend belief and pretend that a tremendous amount of character development had suddenly occurred during the brief off screen time? lol
Valid questions. I expect the other forms of media to answer them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
2. How did Kanade who got Otanashi's heart, find herself at the school long before Otanashi got there?
There is no rule saying that there can't be any amount of time between death and reappearance in purgatory, and I won't be surprised that this happens. I think it is reasonable to say that Purgatory does NOT obey the mortal timeline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
3. If they are dead, then how the heck can Kanade say "Your heart is beating right here." No it's not. Your dead. It would be DEAD too.
Key.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
4. How can Otanashi's body react to the heart? It's dead! But....if we somehow think that they were in a coma, and they just never showed it..... wait.... that won't work either. Why? Because Otanashi doesn't even have a heart! So how can a guy without a heart (supposedly dead) have a body that can react to an equally should be dead heart inside a donor girl?
You kinda still need organs to "live" in purgatory. The characters still bleed and breathe. Now, Kanade probably noticed that Otonashi bled considerably differently without a heart. How he managed to live is the real wtf you should be asking. And again, I'll leave that up to Key. It didn't break my suspension of belief that much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
5. If they are all dead.... then what the heck was up with Yui and Hinata's storyline? We saw future flashbacks of Hinata coming to Yui's bedside while she was STILL paralyzed. What? Was that an LSD, PCP, Angel Dust (rofl) induced flashback? >.< If they are dead, then that makes the HinataXYui pairing far less romantic.
The way I read it is that Yui imagined Hinata fulfilling her wish love and marriage in the most vivid way imaginable, by imagining it happening in her previous life. We can reasonably expect that for maximum dramatic impact, Yui and Hinata will meet the same way "Otonashi" and "Kanade" met again post-ED.

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Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
6. God..... remember Him? His name was behind the graduation banner in the last episode. Yup.... we sure got to know more about that plot.....didn't we....
Don't know what you're talking about.

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Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
9. So what happened? I mean it... what in the world happened at the end? Guess what... we still don't know. Why? Because they wouldn't tell us. Reincarnation? Comas? Evil Shadow Monster Locke? Oh wait...strike that last one. Wrong show. >_>
We can be sure that they all died and reincarnated, because Otonashi lost his heart. Kanade died some other way that won't be explained to us, but the whole reason she's in purgatory is because she painfully regrets being unable to thank her benefactor. Again, I'm willing to believe that there can be a variable timeskip between "moving on" and true reincarnation. They can reincarnate at any point in time.

Personally, I think they did great with what little time they had left. It was far too ambitious for too small a timeframe, but they salvaged it well. I expected the entire episode to be devoted to Kanade's past, but this is an acceptable alternative for me. I was bothered by how out-of-character everyone was, yes. I read that as their post-acceptance states, as jarring as it is.

Last edited by Claies; 2010-06-25 at 22:16.
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:06   Link #83
kk2extreme
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im all for the multiuniverse, where you can reborn into a different universe instead of a baby, and you can have trace memories in the other universe, where "you were dead", just look at higurashi
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:08   Link #84
Matt122005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xacual View Post
1. Yuri denied suicide without Otonashi even mentioning the word. I'd say that falls under specifically specific denial. Of course it's not confirmed but it would fit with her character at least in my mind.

2. It's an afterlife, you don't have to get there at the same time, or it could be my crack theory that she ended up there and Otonashi was put there specifically to help her because he was the only one who could help her to pass on.

5. That was just imagining of the scenario that Hinata narrated for Yui. I mean that's all it was.

6. There was no God in the series. It was an afterlife for young people to get over their regrets before being reborn again into the world.

7. This was explained, he was just a program left behind by the guy who made angel player and everything. After Yuri trashed the computers he disappeared.
2. The theory that time is irrelevant there as compared to our world is flawed. If it was really true, then we should have seen people from Japan's past there too. But no, instead, everyone is from the current time period.

5. Oh really? You do realize that would make nearly half that episode worthless for the story as a whole.

6. No. Yuri said there was no God in a brief melodramatic moment. But as you said, just because Yuri said it, means nothing. If her suicide comment can be false and just her personal opinion, so can God. Especially considering how adamant she was originally that he existed and she wanted revenge.

7. It was thrown out of nowhere. Explained? Please... That whole scene didn't add anything to the plot or even explain what that school really was or how it was made. Are they in a computer program or what? If so, then they wouldn't be in the afterlife, would they? It's called "bad writing".
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:08   Link #85
Mirrinus
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Originally Posted by kk2extreme View Post
im all for the multiuniverse, where you can reborn into a different universe instead of a baby, and you can have trace memories in the other universe, where "you were dead", just look at higurashi
You know, I'll just pretend that's what happened and be done with it. The afterlife school was really Beatrice's mansion where everyone goes to chill out in between deaths, and anything that doesn't make sense was just caused by Trollkastel. All right, everything's explained!
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:08   Link #86
Highlygifted
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Episode has standard people leaving... OK!
They go 1 by 1, slowly, wasting the rushed last episode... OK!
Kanade & Otonashi are left alone together and drag out the goodbye, BONUS!
I came here long before you but you donated your organ to me ... PLOT TWIST AND PARADOX

Up until that moment, things didn't seem amazing, but when the truth came out, it was unexpected. What I don't get is why she couldn't have accepted his love or his idea of being together forever. Did she not love him back, did she not have the same regrets, what? This is the most ambiguous part that I'd like clarification on why she had to leave. Him bawling and crying didn't disturb me too much.

I seriously expected him to pull the Angel Player remake up till here. To create something, to pass the job on, something. Just having the person you love leave, if that didn't create a huge regret, I don't know how it works.

The ending part worked well, people vanishing off, it does show that underneath it all, Kanade & Otonashi had a relationship that could only be seen once everyone was gone.

As for the reincarnation... it was weak. Sad but true.
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:10   Link #87
karuroso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fict_ticious View Post
I think I've seen that ending before...
Oh wait, there it is.
Yes ,this also reminded me KnM ending, however unlike here, KnM had much more impact,( the relationship had a lot more of buildup and the final struggle was truly memorable in my opinion ) and this kind of epiloge in KnM was to me a lot more happier because it seemed both parts actually kinda of remembered each other, different from here where it was a bit ambiguous.
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:10   Link #88
DrCnCh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasunin View Post
i think people are missing the biggest loophole here...unless i do not understand the meaning of reincarnation or we are suppose to speculate something too along with many other loopholes.

Thanks to Kanade humming My Song, it shows that both Kanade and Otonashi resume back to their life. Kanade had to resume back to her life as she thanked Otonashi for his heart donated to her. so CONFIRM! Kanade came back to Life.

NOW!

Otonashi doesn't have a heart since he donated away. are we suppose to speculate on that as well---> HOW HE CAME BACK TO LIFE WITHOUT A HEART?????

BECAUSE...he recognizes the My Song humming. so surely he must have resume back his life. not live a 2nd life. if he had live a 2nd life, he will be younger than kanade...much younger...
Considering that they were in the afterlife, I don't think it is too much of a stretch to assume that they were reincarnated into a new life, hence why Otonashi has a heart. Also the recognition of the song could be something like deja vu, where he feels like he recognizes it from some distant memory that he doesn't have. And given that she was humming it while listening to head phones could also mean that GirlsDeadMonster went to form in their new lives and that the songs were actually written in the real world through some "inspiration" that is actually a memory of the afterlife. Really, because of the nature of the series taking place in the afterlife it can be hard to determine what exactly the rules are for the afterlife and rebirth cycle.
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:16   Link #89
blitz1/2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
2. The theory that time is irrelevant there as compared to our world is flawed. If it was really true, then we should have seen people from Japan's past there too. But no, instead, everyone is from the current time period.

5. Oh really? You do realize that would make nearly half that episode worthless for the story as a whole.

6. No. Yuri said there was no God in a brief melodramatic moment. But as you said, just because Yuri said it, means nothing. If her suicide comment can be false and just her personal opinion, so can God. Especially considering how adamant she was originally that he existed and she wanted revenge.

7. It was thrown out of nowhere. Explained? Please... That whole scene didn't add anything to the plot or even explain what that school really was or how it was made. Are they in a computer program or what? If so, then they wouldn't be in the afterlife, would they? It's called "bad writing".
I can argue your 2. with the fact that the world "resets" itself many times (using the shadows or other means), and it's stated that Otonashi is a bug in the program, so it's possible for him to arrive later in the world.

Well, the ending scene is a bit ambigious, since you can argue that
1. It's a reincarnation scene after the events of AB
2. It's a flashback that kanade and Otonashi had met before in the past (when Otonashi was still working) and it could be that Kanade dropped something and Otonashi wanted to get her attention to return something.
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:20   Link #90
Xacual
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
2. The theory that time is irrelevant there as compared to our world is flawed. If it was really true, then we should have seen people from Japan's past there too. But no, instead, everyone is from the current time period.

5. Oh really? You do realize that would make nearly half that episode worthless for the story as a whole.

6. No. Yuri said there was no God in a brief melodramatic moment. But as you said, just because Yuri said it, means nothing. If her suicide comment can be false and just her personal opinion, so can God. Especially considering how adamant she was originally that he existed and she wanted revenge.

7. It was thrown out of nowhere. Explained? Please... That whole scene didn't add anything to the plot or even explain what that school really was or how it was made. Are they in a computer program or what? If so, then they wouldn't be in the afterlife, would they? It's called "bad writing".
2. How does that make time irrelevant? Isn't there a belief somewhere in the world that when you die you are instantly reborn somewhere else? If that was the way this world worked then the Afterlife would exist outside of time. Of course that's just a theory. And why would we see people from the past? The people that show up there eventually move on, I mean even for Yuri's group they were probably only there a few years in that world, maybe a little more or less.

5. I don't see how them being imagined makes the episode worthless, they basically served to make us feel sadder for Yui's disappearance and Hinata and her's love. I don't really see how it's a waste.

6. I didn't say just because Yuri said something she was wrong. I'm just saying straight up, there was no evidence at all of a God existing or being in that world at all based on what was shown in the anime. None. Unless the existence of an afterlife is proof enough but I don't think so.

7. He said he was basically a program left behind to monitor the world for the programmer who made angel player. I don't see how that's hard to understand, he wasn't a human he was just a special NPC.

This is also the last time I'm replying since I think this stuff was explained enough in the anime for a satisfactory conclusion.
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:22   Link #91
Kaisos Erranon
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I gotta say, I can't wait for the Final Impressions thread.

As for this episode itself... wow. Just wow. I haven't seen anything this unwatchably bad in a very long time.

Just... I have no words. None at all. No words can accurately describe the extent to which this show has failed.

The only good thing is that we can finally figure out what the title means. But wait, that's a bad thing since it means they had been planning this terrible ending from the very beginning.

Argh.
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:27   Link #92
Claies
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Originally Posted by serenade_beta View Post
3. Otonashi must be the scum of scum, huh?
Otonashi in this episode: Okay, I'm staying here to help everyone pass on --> Let's do a graduation ceremony --> Decides to stay all of a sudden, wherever this development came from --> I love you, Kanade --> Stay with me in this world! --> Crap, she dumped me --> She disappeared... --> Oh well, guess I will disappear too --> Wait for me, Kanade~~~ ---> And so, Otonashi gets arrested for hitting on a loli in the next world, the end.
Let's all disappear together --> I'm staying, stay with me Kanade. *clap* *clap* *clap* What a man...

4. It was hilarious enough when the last development with Otonashi asking Kanade to stay occurred, but it finished me off with his arms' movements after she disappeared. Definitely a gag, right? No?

5. Kanade received his heart? How did she get to this world first?! Oi, Dialga! Quite sleeping!
So I think the easiest way to mentally resolve this nicely is to put variable timeskips in places that don't make complete sense. Here are a few places:

1) Why Kanade showed up in Purgatory before Otonashi, despite dying after him: After you leave the mortal world, you're no longer on the mortal timeline. Your soul is under god's control, whoever that is.

2) This requires a stretch of imagination, but I like to think that Otonashi spent some time in the afterlife alone before coming to an understanding that he will meet her again and finally leaving. Romantically, he's not the best guy in the world. I wouldn't be surprised if Kanade is the first person he ever loved after his sister, hence the desperate attachment.

3) Same as #1 for why Otonashi and Kanade managed to meet each other reasonably the same age.

Think of it this way: If there is a god (screw it, I'll call him Maeda, because he made all this up), he decided that the best way to resolve Otonashi and Kanade is to make them meet in Purgatory exactly this way.

There, I walk away from the series feeling okay.
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:33   Link #93
rasunin
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Originally Posted by DrCnCh View Post
Considering that they were in the afterlife, I don't think it is too much of a stretch to assume that they were reincarnated into a new life, hence why Otonashi has a heart. Also the recognition of the song could be something like deja vu, where he feels like he recognizes it from some distant memory that he doesn't have. And given that she was humming it while listening to head phones could also mean that GirlsDeadMonster went to form in their new lives and that the songs were actually written in the real world through some "inspiration" that is actually a memory of the afterlife. Really, because of the nature of the series taking place in the afterlife it can be hard to determine what exactly the rules are for the afterlife and rebirth cycle.

hmm...i guess i misinterpret one important part of Kanade's dialouges

"I was able to stay alive because of your heart. Even now your heart is beating in my chest. My one regret was being unable to say thank you to the person who saved my life."

she said "I was able to stay alive because of your heart" and "My one regret was being unable to say thank you to the person who saved my life".

this could mean that the Heart operation was a success! and she wakes up knowing that too. and she lived with one regret, which is to thank the person who saved her life. so this must also imply that she had finished living her 1st life/that life.

ehh...no one knows whether she lived to an old ripe age or met an accident at a young age. i mean...i do not know how reincarnation works firstly. if she did lived to an ripe old age and then died, its amazing she can come into this Afterlife world and take on her young-age looks. i live that up for anyone to speculate.

"even now your heart is beating in my chest" could be a direct description of how she is feeling at that moment in the afterlife, while talking to Otonashi.

Of course! i can be wrong to interpret all these english translation. i will be assuming that the english translation is 100% accurate. lol!

alright...i give up trying to find out how otonashi was able to come back to life. i just take it that the ending was showing both Kanade and Otonashi already living their 2nd life and the My Song was etched into their souls/hearts.

All this Afterlife and Reincarnation and Timeline...too much loopholes and room for speculation. lol.
but i guess KEY doesn't know a lot about Afterlife and Reincarnation and how all that works out too...do they?
they will be studying like MAD CRAZY about it...it can go really deep.


The End. [for me] lol.
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:45   Link #94
Francismeunier
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Originally Posted by Knightrunner View Post
lol I like my twist ending better and I'm sure many other people already thought about his end. Otanashi was the original creator of Angel Player waiting for his loved one. He recently got of of being an NPC, but as a result got amnesia. Otanashi was the only exception that mistakenly was in this world and that fits the decscription the advance NPC that got killed by Yurippe in episode 12.
That could be logical enough for me to accept it. It would also make sense of why Otonashi waited so long.
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:49   Link #95
BloodyKitty
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This anime seriously need to be remade in a full fledged plot, with at least 26 episodes. Angel Beats! has a really interesting setting and lots of potentials, but rushed pace, plot holes and confusing stuff here and there kind of ruined it.

The only enjoyable thing that I can see in the final episode is Yuxuru x Kanade scenes.

My personal biggest complaint is the lack of TK, though that's expected...
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:51   Link #96
Eater of All
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Originally Posted by Claies View Post
So I think the easiest way to mentally resolve this nicely is to put variable timeskips in places that don't make complete sense. Here are a few places:

1) Why Kanade showed up in Purgatory before Otonashi, despite dying after him: After you leave the mortal world, you're no longer on the mortal timeline. Your soul is under god's control, whoever that is.

2) This requires a stretch of imagination, but I like to think that Otonashi spent some time in the afterlife alone before coming to an understanding that he will meet her again and finally leaving. Romantically, he's not the best guy in the world. I wouldn't be surprised if Kanade is the first person he ever loved after his sister, hence the desperate attachment.

3) Same as #1 for why Otonashi and Kanade managed to meet each other reasonably the same age.

Think of it this way: If there is a god (screw it, I'll call him Maeda, because he made all this up), he decided that the best way to resolve Otonashi and Kanade is to make them meet in Purgatory exactly this way.

There, I walk away from the series feeling okay.
Yeah, I like speculating, but there just some details that don't need to be scrutinized too much for the sake of the story. Your timeskip thing works perfectly, and it can also be that during the transition, souls can somehow travel to different points in time in the real world relative to the afterlife. It's fiction, and with such a heavily fantastic series as Angel Beats, not everything has to be explained.
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:52   Link #97
SirusRiddler
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Considering the general pacing problems this show had, I'm going to take the ending at face value. I just see no point in trying to over-analyze this show.

So with that, the show in general was rather enjoyable. The ending caught me in one of those near-crying state but I think only ef: a fairy tale of two has managed to actually make me shed a tear.
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:54   Link #98
thefeared
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One of the worst series I've ever seen. That was failure on so many levels.

I'm ashamed at myself for even finishing the series.
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:54   Link #99
zeth006
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Well. I dunno why everyone's overanalyzing this show. Generally, with anime, I keep my standards moderately low and just enjoy it for what it is.


That aside, enjoyed the ending. Liked how Yuri was smiling during the ending credits. Nice way to finish it.
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Old 2010-06-25, 22:56   Link #100
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Eater of All View Post
It's fiction, and with such a heavily fantastic series as Angel Beats, not everything has to be explained.
This is a terrible justification that I see far, far too often.

Just because it isn't "realistic" does not mean that everything has to be left up for the viewer to interpret.

Refusing to explain anything, especially when the work in question thrives on maintaining a sense of mystery, is bad writing.
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