AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Umineko

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-06-26, 06:31   Link #11701
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by delita-umw- View Post
Why in the world would he decide to do all these halted moves if not to utterly humiliate them for pleasure?
Arrogance works as the reason too, and fits better with what he actually says.
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-26, 06:34   Link #11702
Smeckledorf
Intellectual Rapist
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 3 12151805142615
What reason does George have to kill everyone beside Battler and Shanon? That is my problem with the George is the culprit theory. People die because of Battler's sin but that may not be the only cause. Also, if George is the culprit, then why does Beatrice use Kanon's piece so often?
I don't really build theories as much as try to explain events.
-Beatrice using Kanon on multiple occasions.
-Battler usually one of the last to die.
-(Usually) No one survives.
-Who is the human acting as Beatrice?
-What is Battler's true origin exactly?
-Anything that explains episode 6, srsly wtf?
-Who is the head?
-Is Kinzo actually dead or is he going to go 34 all on us?
-Why were people paid out and who paid them out?
There are probably more.
Smeckledorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-26, 06:46   Link #11703
delita-umw-
Wild Speculator
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: 13th Hierarchical City Kagutsuchi
I'll answer you by saying that I definitely don't think George is responsible for ALL the murders. I'm more a believer that his plans and or actions either enable another faction to act on their plans or serve as motivation. In other words I believe he's the one who starts everything rolling.
delita-umw- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-26, 06:49   Link #11704
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by delita-umw- View Post
I'll answer you by saying that I definitely don't think George is responsible for ALL the murders. I'm more a believer that his plans and or actions either enable another faction to act on their plans or serve as motivation. In other words I believe he's the one who starts everything rolling.
You missed something interesting then.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...ostcount=11274
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...ostcount=11275
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-26, 06:57   Link #11705
Smeckledorf
Intellectual Rapist
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 3 12151805142615
Well played... That is pretty funny. I never actually thought about the 5 shots and 6 bodies. I think they were shot after being drugged, though. Or perhaps Shanon was serving Krauss tea and they were the first to be shot at a coincidental time. However, this would be lucky and not planned. Or maybe they were faking their deaths like how people did it with 2-inch deep slits in their necks... 5 shots, 6 victims. Still perplexing.
Smeckledorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-26, 07:09   Link #11706
delita-umw-
Wild Speculator
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: 13th Hierarchical City Kagutsuchi
Sorry, it's pretty late so I'm not really getting what I missed. My limited reasoning ability is further hampered by lack of sleep =(. A planned drugging makes a lot more sense to me when you put it that way though cause it seems way too much up to chance to blow away both their heads in a spur of the moment murder. A solution would be either a drugging or somehow binding of the two victims so that they are lined up to conserve the ammo. But of course that damages my George mastermind/jealous lover idea. Is that the direction you're pointing me in?
delita-umw- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-26, 07:11   Link #11707
Leafsnail
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Ah... I'd always imagined the buckshot hitting the head from in front or behind and passing through, but if Shannon and Krauss were shot from the side... hmm. Although then Nanjo is either faking in a weird way, or he really sucks at autopsies.

As for the Shannon thing - sure, anyone can have a fake name, but for Shannon and Kanon it's outright stated that their names are not real, even on the character sheet.
Leafsnail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-26, 07:18   Link #11708
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by delita-umw- View Post
But of course that damages my George mastermind/jealous lover idea. Is that the direction you're pointing me in?
Just feeding you thoughts, hoping you develop it into a more coherent scenario, really. I'm not out to disprove your theory -- it's just an idea at this point and right now the most that can be said against it is just "feels unlikely" -- and I actually agree that it is very likely that George kills at least one person in any given episode.
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-26, 07:18   Link #11709
delita-umw-
Wild Speculator
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: 13th Hierarchical City Kagutsuchi
I actually meant that it would pass through from the front into the other person but that actually a good idea =P. If theyre drugged, you could have them lean next to each other and then blast both of their heads simultaneously and if they're bound, conscious, and lined up 1 behind the other, they could be trying to dodge the bullet, again explaining why it would be getting different sides of the head.

And if there's anything to be learned from these stories, isn't it that Nanjo is terrible at autopsies?

edit: I hope you didn't take my statement the wrong way. I very much welcome the ideas and am just really tired so I wasn't sure where you were going with those 2 posts. Interest > sleep.
delita-umw- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-26, 07:23   Link #11710
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
Although then Nanjo is either faking in a weird way, or he really sucks at autopsies.
In my book, an autopsy without dissection involved is merely post-mortem examination. Nanjo is basically never serious at them, he never even turns the body over as far as I can remember. He keeps invoking police, too, when it should be obvious that unless you figure out who's killing everybody, chances are you won't live to see them, and crime scene disruption charges will be the very least of your worries.
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-26, 07:25   Link #11711
Smeckledorf
Intellectual Rapist
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 3 12151805142615
Just throwing this out there, Nanjo was one of the people who received payment for some unknown reason...
Smeckledorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-26, 07:27   Link #11712
Leafsnail
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
I suppose... but wouldn't he at least be able to tell the difference between "blasted in the face with a 00 round" and "killed with damage done to the face after death"?
Leafsnail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-26, 07:29   Link #11713
delita-umw-
Wild Speculator
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: 13th Hierarchical City Kagutsuchi
I know it's generally agreed that Nanjo is an accomplice but was it ever really agreed which "team" he was on? Cause when you point out information like that, it really pushes me towards team twilight fakers as him throwing out the police makes it seem like he's just trying to keep people from confirming they're dead rather than protect the actual murderer.

edit: Say they're all bludgeoned to death on the side of the head and then are blasted in the face generally around where they were clubbed in order to hide the real cause of death, I'd take a stab and say without a dissection its impossible to tell the difference? Discounting of course that it's silly to do that.
delita-umw- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-26, 07:40   Link #11714
Smeckledorf
Intellectual Rapist
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 3 12151805142615
I like to think that Nanjo thinks they are all faking dead, too. However, the people who told him to fake autopsies might be murdering people and thus Nanjo would not really be a culprit but still an unknowing accomplice.
Smeckledorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-26, 07:44   Link #11715
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
I suppose... but wouldn't he at least be able to tell the difference between "blasted in the face with a 00 round" and "killed with damage done to the face after death"?
He should be able to see if the wound contains any traces of gunpowder with a naked eye, which would reliably distinguish "blasted in the face" from "face smashed in". Determining whether the smashing in occurred in a living person is possible without a microscope, but it requires far more serious examination than Nanjo ever does.

Nanjo has a lot of opportunities to determine proper causes of death for many of the corpses found, many of those opportunities require nothing except a scalpel and bright lighting. He just never uses them.
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-26, 07:52   Link #11716
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by delita-umw- View Post
edit: Say they're all bludgeoned to death on the side of the head and then are blasted in the face generally around where they were clubbed in order to hide the real cause of death, I'd take a stab and say without a dissection its impossible to tell the difference? Discounting of course that it's silly to do that.
My old forensic pathology textbook from 1982 says that it is possible, but dissection is inevitable in some cases (overlapping stab and gunshot wounds for example) and may not be required for a decision in others (blunt trauma). In this particular case, getting to see the skull surface will be enough to tell whether a gunshot was the cause of death or not. Dissection usually doesn't require anything more complicated than a scalpel, some important things which rely on cellular processes after death involve a microscope, but a fairly crude one will do.
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-26, 07:53   Link #11717
Leafsnail
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Well, to be fair, he is a general practitioner... I guess he wouldn't really know that much about autopsies. He does tell everyone at the very first twilight that they shouldn't take what he says as a guarenteed metric of truth.
Leafsnail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-26, 08:03   Link #11718
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
Well, to be fair, he is a general practitioner... I guess he wouldn't really know that much about autopsies. He does tell everyone at the very first twilight that they shouldn't take what he says as a guarenteed metric of truth.
My textbook is for general practitioner students. Regardless, he should know about hydrogen peroxide then, if he's a general practitioner, because it's a very widely used wound disinfectant, particularly in that time.

Around the Soviet Union, a bottle of hydrogen peroxide was the standard part of CSI field kit up until the 90s, (until better stuff became available) because it allows to determine if a given dry stain is blood or not. If hydrogen peroxide reacts with it, it probably is, and you should scrape it up for analysis, if it doesn't, it definitely isn't blood.

There are multiple times when they are clearly confused between blood and red paint...
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-26, 08:03   Link #11719
Smeckledorf
Intellectual Rapist
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 3 12151805142615
He should know how to detect pulses and he should probably be able to tell if a wound is real.
To be fair though, dried blood and red paint can be confused if you don't have a UV light or luminol.
Smeckledorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-26, 08:11   Link #11720
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smeckledorf View Post
To be fair though, dried blood and red paint can be confused if you don't have a UV light or luminol.
But hydrogen peroxide would pretty much have to be on the island in a medkit somewhere, if there's anyone who might trip and scrape a knee around, which there is.
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.