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View Poll Results: Angel Beats! - Episode 13 (END) Rating
Perfect 10 195 43.05%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 82 18.10%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 60 13.25%
7 out of 10 : Good 36 7.95%
6 out of 10 : Average 20 4.42%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 13 2.87%
4 out of 10 : Poor 11 2.43%
3 out of 10 : Bad 7 1.55%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 5 1.10%
1 out of 10 : Painful 24 5.30%
Voters: 453. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-06-26, 10:20   Link #221
vaden
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Location: (n.) A particular place or position.
A couple of lines during the episode imply that there's a period of determination between death and reincarnation or entering an afterlife:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otonashi, to Hinata
I was able to find fulfillment in life at the end. But I lost that memory, and mistakenly wandered into this world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanade, to Otonashi
My one regret was being unable to say thank you to the person who saved my life. I wanted to tell you so badly that I got lot and wandered here.
So it's possible that Otonashi showed up in this world later because, without much of his memory, he could not figure out where to go and got lost "in between", only stumbling into the high school by sheer chance. Kanade, also being lost, simply happened to show up earlier, perhaps because she eventually realized that her regret was holding her back.
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Old 2010-06-26, 10:21   Link #222
Ice Block
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I'm here to answer all your questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
1. Yuri said that nobody who commits suicide comes to the school. But...why? It makes no sense now. If they are dead, and they are there at that school to come to terms with their bad life..... then wouldn't there be a ton of suicide victims there?! I mean.... suicide victims I would suspect had unhappy lives and would need to come to terms with their lives, right? They more than anyone were so unhappy with "living" that they ended life themselves.
This is not the only afterlife. There are many like it, but this is the one that Angel Beats covered. This version of the afterlife is specifically for people who had lived an unhappy and unfulfilled/tragic life and died as high school kids. Basically, youths deprived of their youthful days. I imagine there are separate afterlife worlds for both older and younger people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
2. How did Kanade who got Otanashi's heart, find herself at the school long before Otanashi got there?
Time in the afterlife does not flow in the same manner as time in real life. For example, real life time may be seen as one continuous straight line, while time in the afterlife may look like isolated points, disjointed segments, a sine curve, a circular loop, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
3. If they are dead, then how the heck can Kanade say "Your heart is beating right here." No it's not. Your dead. It would be DEAD too.
Their brain is working. Proof: they can move, among other things. Their organs still function. That's why you can be killed (and respawn after a while).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
4. How can Otanashi's body react to the heart? It's dead! But....if we somehow think that they were in a coma, and they just never showed it..... wait.... that won't work either. Why? Because Otanashi doesn't even have a heart! So how can a guy without a heart (supposedly dead) have a body that can react to an equally should be dead heart inside a donor girl?
This is the afterlife, where we have souls. Also, Otonashi's heart is definitely not dead: see #3 above. They are not in a coma -- that theory was built upon lack of evidence and was debunked by the AI last ep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
5. If they are all dead.... then what the heck was up with Yui and Hinata's storyline? We saw future flashbacks of Hinata coming to Yui's bedside while she was STILL paralyzed. What? Was that an LSD, PCP, Angel Dust (rofl) induced flashback? >.< If they are dead, then that makes the HinataXYui pairing far less romantic.
Those weren't future scenes or flashbacks. It was just a what-if scenario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
6. God..... remember Him? His name was behind the graduation banner in the last episode. Yup.... we sure got to know more about that plot.....didn't we....
The characters had no way of concluding the existence of god. Even the AI didn't know, and apparently the Programmer didn't either. Can you prove god exists in real life?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
7. The MATRIX Overseer.... what? Did KEY finally watch the Matrix Reloaded and decid to pay homage? There was hardly any explanation for this or meaning.
There was a Programmer who fell in love. Then, his beloved disappeared. As time went by (perhaps when he was trying really hard to pass on), he discovered a 'bug' in the system wherein people without any regrets would be mistakenly thrown into that afterlife. This would make them stuck there, unable to move on.

Realizing that he is one of these rare occurrences, he held on to the faint hope that his beloved will return to the afterlife in one way or another and he decided to wait it out. Then, he went mad from the waiting, and he eventually developed a software that would handle this bug if it ever happened again -- the Shadows of Angel Player. Before he converted himself into an NPC, he made a construct who would handle this program.

Whether his NPC self was the construct or not is debatable though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
8. The Characters in the last episode..... SERIOUSLY?! All of them changed on the dime. I mean, everyone but Hinata changed. You could barely recognize Yuri, Otanashi, or Kanade at all. Did the creators decide to have us suspend belief and pretend that a tremendous amount of character development had suddenly occurred during the brief off screen time? lol
3-day timeskip. Also, Yuri had finally accepted and reconciled her regrets, and she no longer needed to be the leader after so long. These naturally caused a big change in her facade. For Kanade, she was already quite open in Ep12, and it was hinted that a lot happened in those 3 days. Kanade composed the mapo tofu song, printed the graduation banner, etc. She probably even socialized with the remaining SSS (Noda, Shiina, Ooyama, TK, Matsushita, Fujimaki, Takamatsu, Takeyama, Yusa).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
9. So what happened? I mean it... what in the world happened at the end? Guess what... we still don't know. Why? Because they wouldn't tell us. Reincarnation? Comas? Evil Shadow Monster Locke? Oh wait...strike that last one. Wrong show. >_>
Reincarnation.

And they are all dead. There are certain beliefs on reincarnation that allow the soul to carry over some remains of your previous incarnation. They use this to explain those things wherein you just think something looks familiar for no real reason at all (which is what supposedly happened at the after-credits scene).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
5. Oh really? You do realize that would make nearly half that episode worthless for the story as a whole.
Nope. You missed the point of that ep. It basically told us that Yui was able to get over her true regret of always having to rely on her mother since she was able to envision a scenario where this happens. Watch it again. Also, the relevance of that episode to the overall plot was to get Hinata on Otonashi's side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alu546 View Post
Seemed that way, but the Kanade x Yuzuru thing was felt a few episodes back, guess they just didnt build up to it.
Kanade x Otonashi has been there since Ep05/06.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alu546 View Post
No word on what happens to otanashi alone in that world either. Nothing is known what happens postgraduation either. Just vague assumptions.
He disappears/moves on afterwards (see ED, post-ED). Unlike the Programmer, he was able to recover from the loss of his beloved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roankun View Post
It was seriously painful... Yuri suddenly turned into a real tsundere (and yes, I know, character development crap, but still, one episode doesnt cut it). And I have a lot of other complaints, but the biggest one is Otonashi.
Yuri always had tsundere tendencies. Go read Track Zero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roankun View Post
That 'I love you Kanade' came out of nowhere. I really thought he loved her, but only like the sister he used to have. It looked like that! That being that sort of love is just... just... I can't accept it. (And that's not just because I'm a YurixOtonashi shipper.
He was desperate. He wanted Kanade to stay, badly, so he put out all his cards. Sadly for him, Kanade did not approve of Otonashi's apparent selfishness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
They were reborn huh? Wow...isn't that convenient. What's more... they even look the exact same! Wow... That's pretty convenient too. And whoa...judging by the headphones...they got reborn almost immediately after their deaths. Oh my... I hope their friends and family aren't freaked out by possibly seeing a clone of their dead loved one walking around.
They didn't look exactly the same. There were a few differences. Also, if their reincarnations didn't share similar character designs, how would the viewers recognize them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinnous View Post
Fourthly, did Kanade actually love Otonashi back in the end? Or did she just indirectly rejected him? I don't know, I am kinda dumb, so make it explicit! (Which I am sure a lot of us wouldn't mind seeing too.)
Debatable. She was basically rejecting him since she couldn't stay with him forever in that world(If I told you my feelings, I'd disappear). She didn't want to make that world become a paradise and lose its meaning by allowing love to manifest and proliferate. She also probably believed that it's better to leave newcomers to their own devices, since people are bound to rebel when you try to force your beliefs unto them.


And as for other issues concerning The Heart:
Organ donation causes you to give up your organs. Thus, Otonashi's heart no longer belonged to him, and he didn't have it (afterlife world probably made an artificial heart to compensate for this). Since his heart was donated to Kanade (and she accepted it), it now belongs to her. Thus, when she died a few years later (heart transplant patients don't live for too long), Otonashi's heart was already considered part of her body by her soul which was sent to the afterlife.

On the other hand, disabled people like Yui, Iwasawa or Hinata did not give up possession of any of their body parts. Even though some of their body parts were not functioning or even separated, these body parts still belonged to them. Thus their souls still considered them part of their body.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
And that's all well and good.

It's doesn't excuse the anime for being a narrative mess, though.
Can't be helped. They made it into a mixed media project because Maeda apparently got struck by inspiration and proceeded to write far too much for a 13-episode anime. All the things that were cut from the anime due to time constraints are / will be covered in the novel (Track Zero; prequel), manga (Heaven's Door; this will supposedly cover everything, including the prequel) and drama CDs (DVD/BD extras). See:
Quote:
Maeda is having a lot of difficulty coping with the length of the anime. However the parts that couldnít make it into one season of 21 minute anime episodes arenít going to be lost forever. Some of them will be written into the Angel Beats! novel which will be running in the magazine starting from this month, and it might be interesting to do them as a drama CD, but we plan to do something with the parts that couldnít make it into the anime.
Quote:
The Aniplex producer of Angel Beats!, Hironori Towa, was interviewed in the November 2009 issue of Dengeki G's Magazine, where he commented that a 13-episode anime with about 21 minutes per episode was not enough to tell the whole story of Angel Beats! Maeda had envisioned. Therefore, the various additional media, such as the illustrated short stories and manga, contain some of the story that was unable to make it into the anime because of time constraints. Towa wanted fans of the series to be able to enjoy it to the fullest by exploring all of the media types.
http://zepy.momotato.com/2009/09/28/...-the-producer/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_B...ime_production

Edit: Alright, done. If you've got any more "plotholes" or inconsistencies, feel free to point them out and I will do my best to explain them.
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Last edited by Ice Block; 2010-06-26 at 11:35.
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Old 2010-06-26, 10:39   Link #223
Ezilled
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A certain wall of text

My. Fucking. god. I was carried away beyond words on how brilliant the finale was. It was so refreshing, calming, heart-crumbling, near-flawless, and tears-inducing all at once, and no doubt, it was the best climax of this spring season -- no, it's one of the best climax of the year, all years. I applauded so hard when the reverse ED rolled, and I cried like a child when Kanade disappeared in the hands of Otonashi. I predicted that he will hug her though, so I was right; thus leaving me no choice to love every single second of it, and accepted it to be my favorite scene throughout the entire episode. These couple had a bittersweet confession and interaction towards the ending. So if Otonashi had ended being trapped in the afterlife forever, then it was a BAD END and really painful to him to move on just like the programmer ( He's the one who pushed everyone to disappear yet he didn't want to let Kanade go? OH THE DRAMATIC IRONY. Love hurts much? ), thank god for the hint of ED where he faded. It seemed it's fairly difficult to see the personality change of Yuri and Kanade in a short time. However, my thoughts can't handle the full charge of moe when Kanade smiling and talking in a normal passage, not to mention her own version of anthem with mafo tofu. Tsundere Yuri? Sort of want.

My short criticism for Yuri is, she's really an excellent leader of SSS, not bitchy, but pretty straightforward and caring not only for her sisters, but also her companions. Naoi? Well, I really don't care about his disappearance because he's already gay to Otonashi. As for Hinata, he's truly a true bro til the very end. Hell, he'll even search for Yui and marry her once he moved on. On the other hand, the epilogue (last few seconds) should have had longer time because we don't know whether if it's a reality or a simulation or reincarnation or flash sideways, so I'm quite disappointed. Why would you they left it hanging just like that?

As for you, Maeda, I love you, and I forgave you for all I care even if there's no major explaination about the afterlife because Kanade's revelation was so enough to put off the flame of hatred and rage. I didn't see it coming because the execution was truly unpredictable and well-crafted that the staffs, director, and Maeda himself poured their dedication into one, grand graduation. I also need to have a follow-up for this immediately or else I will feel depressed. I can't just move on to what summer brings like that nor just watching K-ON to fill the void. At the very least, I've heard that it'd have an extra episode, so I feel contented. Anyways, Kanade for Saimoe 2010! She's really a deserving champion for this year. Let's vote her to the highest level.

A solid 9/10 for this series. Once again, thanks Maeda for this wonderful 13-week journey. Commencing to rewatch the show from the beginning. Nevertheless, Even if there's no proper goodbye, I will miss you TK, Shiina, Yusa, 5th Dan, GirlsDeMo etc etc. Thanks to you too for these enjoyable discussions, fellow Angel Beats fans. You guys deserve to disappear and move on! Just kidding. No, seriously. Oh yeah, we might wonder how did Kanade have the heart of Otonashi and lived in the afterlife before Otonashi appeared on the first episode. So I'd go with the theory that Otonashi's soul wandered around a bit and quite possible that it had regrets for not saving the train survivors (which he actually did) so yeah. Or perhaps the afterlife world is a timeless plane that connects the past, present, and the future.

tl;dr Angel Beats has full of glaring flaws and questions left unaswered; however, it can be simply stepped aside because the series was highly-enjoyable and entertaining to watch from start to finish.
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Old 2010-06-26, 10:42   Link #224
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I have another theory about Otonashi coming after Kanade...
Otonashi said he wasn't supposed to be there... because he already "find fulfillment in life at the end". Thus Kanade was there because she wanted to thank her donor which was Otonashi. It means she couldn't disappear if Otonashi wasn't there. I conclude, Otonashi came in that afterlife world because of Kanade --> Otonashi came after Kanade........
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Old 2010-06-26, 10:47   Link #225
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A song of Mapo Tofu. lol
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Old 2010-06-26, 11:07   Link #226
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Originally Posted by Matt122005 View Post
>___> Did you seriously just try and to explain bad writing away by saying "It's fiction, it's magic, so it doesn't matter"? I mean...seriously?

Sorry to break it to ya, but even Magic has to make sense to a degree.

Just because I can write a novel about some guy named Joe who suddenly loses an arm and yet can still for no given reason pick up stuff with that missing invisible arm, does not mean I should. Or that a reader should excuse it away by saying "It's alright that it makes no sense, it's magic, its fiction. It's a minor detail."

The difference between good writing and bad writing is all about details. It's about how much effort the author put into the material. When you get plots or events that don't make a lot of sense, it reflects poorly on the creator.

You say that the God plot doesn't matter anymore.... but see, then why did they have it in the story at all? If you introduce a sub-plot and never lead it anywhere, do you know what we call that? A rough draft if were being kind. A poorly executed piece of amateur work if were being more critical.

And another reason the dead plot doesn't work well. Is if all it is is reincarnation, then that means that they lose all the memories. So who cares? It's basically the proverbial "Dream" story.

Do you really care about a story that basically never happened? In truth, the last few seconds are the actual real story since that's what the characters can remember. Why even have a graduation ceremony if your not going to remember it at all? Why do you care about overcoming your issues if your just going to be reborn without them anyway?

It's not compelling fiction and it falls short because of it.

As for the Matrix overseer. What you fail to realize, is that if they aren't going to explain more about it....why should they have even had it in the plot? If it's just some random guy, why even give him that much room in the plot?
Sigh.
They're not zombies. How their bodies work was completely vague from the start. In some way their bodies retain some functions. Without a digestive system their stomachs would burst open after eating daily. What difference does it make how their bodies work, and what purpose will it serve to offer an explanation regarding the technicalities of how Otonashi's heart is beating inside Kanade's body, but is still able to connect to Otonashi? It doesn't make any less sense than the fact that they can experience a true death and fully recover in a few minutes, or make guns out of dirt. Those are the physical laws of that world. Your missing the picture. The author is pointing at the clouds and you're staring at his finger.

God wasn't her enemy. God didn't write down her fate to have her siblings murdered. It was the free will of those murderers, just as she lived her life according to her own will. Tenshi didn't serve god. She was just another human living her life the way she chose. God had no part in Yuri's fate. Yuri was wrong. That's all there is to the god plot, and it's more meaningfull this way than to have and old bearded guy appear in the clouds and Yurippe declaring "Finally I've found you, prepare to die".

The point of that world isn't to give them something to carry over to the next life, but to give them the chance to fulfill their previous life.

You're really stuck on the matrix theory and I get the impression that you're unhappy with the way it ended simply because they didn't take that route. The programmer showed what would happen to Otonashi if he stayed in that world forever waiting for Kanade to return. He showed that you can't cheat the system to obtain eternal happiness for yourself. That was his purpose, and if they hadn't shown it we would all be saying "well why didn't the whole group stay there and be happy forever?"

Quote:
What it shows is that the writers of this show did not properly plan or use their alloted time as wisely as they should have. A lot of scenes were wasted in this show that could have been replaced with more plot heavy material.
Everyone was complaning that the pace was way too fast, and you say it wasn't fast enough. I don't know what to say to this, imo they achieved a pretty good balance of plot and entertainment. Taking out some fanservice to explain everything in black and white would please some and displease others, particularly those who get attached to insignificant characters with a few seconds of screen time and a line or two per episode at best who hardly affect the plot in any way whatsoever.

Quote:
They were reborn huh? Wow...isn't that convenient. What's more... they even look the exact same! Wow... That's pretty convenient too. And whoa...judging by the headphones...they got reborn almost immediately after their deaths. Oh my... I hope their friends and family aren't freaked out by possibly seeing a clone of their dead loved one walking around.
Yes. Convenient indeed. Exactly the same. Indeed convenient. The headphones reveal all. I hope so too.
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Old 2010-06-26, 11:11   Link #227
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As for the last episode I have to say it was good (9/10). I enjoyed the show and it had some nice moments. The BGM music was good and the animation was good too. It would have been better with 24/26 episodes (they even said it would be better if more episodes where done) but for a small studio like PA it was probably impossible to do it (note that all their shows do not have more then 13 Episodes). I hope that some of the missing plot parts, especially backstorys from Kanade and the others (TK, noda etc)will be covered in the VN or in Episode 14.

Nice to see that at the end Otonashi and Kanade meet up again.




Also I must have missed the part where Hinata tells Otonashi his last name, when did that happen
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Old 2010-06-26, 11:33   Link #228
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The ending was amazing! I loved it so much. I teared up when Naoi had to leave, seeing him break down like that and thanking Otonashi, I really did. I also teared up when Yuri had to leave, we didn't see any revelations on how she died though, I think. But yeah, this episode was just really sad.
I like both Otonashi X Yuri and Otonashi X Kanade, though the ending was so nice and heartwarming, yet sad when Kanade disappears and you see Otonashi like that, nnngh it broke my heart. I can't wait for the special episode.
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Old 2010-06-26, 11:35   Link #229
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Part of the problem that some people are having with Angel Beats! is that the ostensible premise of the anime (the SSS rebelling against God while within an afterlife realm of some sort) was never the true story of this anime.

The conflict between Yurippe and Tenshi was largely a major part of the marketing hook for the anime, and also something to provide some colorful fight scenes in the hopes of Angel Beats! appealing to anime audiences amongst those who like such action-oriented fare. The stated premise of the anime simply serves as a catalyst for the conflict between Yurippe and Tenshi, and also as Yurippe's personal issue that she needs to move beyond (letting go of her anger, and coming to accept her past life, basically).

The real story of this anime is pretty straightforward, imo. It's about a man who unexpectedly finds himself in the middle of a major conflict in an afterlife realm, and eventually acts as peacemaker and psychological/spiritual healer for all sides of the conflict. That's pretty much it. Anything beyond that is personal interpretation and fan speculation, in my opinion. And it's a fairly heartwarming story at its core.

I delved into this a bit more thoroughly over here, though, in case anybody wants to look at my ideas here further. Mind you, I did write that before episode 13 came out, and while episode 13 had no major plot twist, it did present the Kanade/Otonashi romance a bit more strongly than I thought it would, and I'm still wondering how that might fit into my overall take on this anime.
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Old 2010-06-26, 11:36   Link #230
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Also I must have missed the part where Hinata tells Otonashi his last name, when did that happen
First episode. Hinata is his last name. His first name (Hideki), however, we have to assume he told him off-screen.
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Old 2010-06-26, 11:43   Link #231
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That was a bit depressing.
Spoiler:
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Old 2010-06-26, 11:46   Link #232
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First episode. Hinata is his last name. His first name (Hideki), however, we have to assume he told him off-screen.
Ah yes that what I meant.
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Old 2010-06-26, 11:46   Link #233
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Btw where is Yusa ? Noda also. The first one is really close to only Yuri, while the 2nd one desperately love her. Why do they move on when Yuri was still unconscious? Why? Why do they head in this direction, knowing it will be rushed? I don't understand it. I seriously do not understand how the anime industry work if this is how things turn out in the end.
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Old 2010-06-26, 11:51   Link #234
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Btw where is Yusa ? Noda also. The first one is really close to only Yuri, while the 2nd one desperately love her. Why do they move on when Yuri was still unconscious? Why? Why do they head in this direction, knowing it will be rushed? I don't understand it. I seriously do not understand how the anime industry work if this is how things turn out in the end.
Their disappearances (or at least what they all did during those three days) will probably be covered in the OVA (coming out with the last volume on December).
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Old 2010-06-26, 11:51   Link #235
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Btw where is Yusa ? Noda also. The first one is really close to only Yuri, while the 2nd one desperately love her. Why do they move on when Yuri was still unconscious? Why? Why do they head in this direction, knowing it will be rushed? I don't understand it. I seriously do not understand how the anime industry work if this is how things turn out in the end.
i think we will get Blue Ray specials to fill in the gaps.
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Old 2010-06-26, 11:52   Link #236
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Otonashi and Kanade's romance were scaled up unnecessarily as well. It's more one-side-love through, as Kanade seems hold no romance over him (yet).
Of course she loves him. Otherwise hearing that he loved her wouldn't have any affect on her passing on. She could have chosen to thank him at any time during the series, but it's obvious that she stayed at least in part to spend time with him. The joy of hearing that he loved her was the final piece needed.
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Old 2010-06-26, 11:58   Link #237
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I enjoyed the series , and i hope for a season 2 but , unfortunately it dosent look like going to be a season 2.
Spoiler for my last questions:
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Old 2010-06-26, 12:08   Link #238
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I enjoyed the series , and i hope for a season 2 but , unfortunately it dosent look like going to be a season 2.
Spoiler for my last questions:
It isn't a love at first sight kind of thing because he only rushed to Kanade after he heard her humming 'My Song' which she also did earlier in the ep when they were walking to the gymnasium in the afterlife world. So yeah, he does remember about the afterlife.

And it isn't stated outright how Kanade died, which is disappointing. I hope though that her, and the other characters', past will be covered in the extra episode that has been announced to be included in the final DVD and BD.
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Old 2010-06-26, 12:09   Link #239
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Of course she loves him. Otherwise hearing that he loved her wouldn't have any affect on her passing on. She could have chosen to thank him at any time during the series, but it's obvious that she stayed at least in part to spend time with him. The joy of hearing that he loved her was the final piece needed.
It's not confirmed if she do not say it through. The only thing she said is "Thank you" which hardly means Yes or No. After all she's there to pay her gratitude

OVA about Yuri lying unconscious? Something like Noda desperately try to confess to Yuri and end up disappearing as he see her awakening, for more drama?
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Old 2010-06-26, 12:10   Link #240
Haak
Forever Alone...
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 23
WTF? That has got to be one of the worst resolutions to an anime that I've ever seen.

So did Kanade get Otonashi's heart in her past life after Otonashi died? But she was in this afterlife waaay before Otonashi came. How the hell does that make sense? At first I thought that the timeline is flowing differently or something but that's just complete fanwanking. It's something that really ought to be explained beforehand imo.
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Last edited by Haak; 2010-06-26 at 13:26.
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