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Old 2010-06-26, 08:23   Link #11721
Smeckledorf
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He may not know that hydrogen peroxide would do that, I didn't know that. Then again, I am not in the same line of work as him.
If Nanjo was purposely diagnosing people as dead when they were alive, then I assume he would not try to point out red paint used as blood for the same reason.
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Old 2010-06-26, 09:36   Link #11722
Renall
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Most of Nanjo's medical incompetence can be explained away by willful disregard for the facts in front of him. Either because he's on the take or he's just afraid. It's always possible too that his diagnosis is always correct, he just happens to not always check the right people.
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Old 2010-06-26, 12:04   Link #11723
Smeckledorf
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I know Nanjo was a friend of Kinzo's but a guy as rich as Kinzo would have kicked Nanjo's ass straight to the unemployment line if Nanjo was incompetent. He is either a culprit or a paid out accomplice. Fool Nanjo once and shame on you, fool Nanjo an entire 5 episodes and he is mentally retarded.

This is of course to say that Nanjo is a doctor or the person we know as Dr. Nanjo is actually who we think he is.
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Old 2010-06-26, 12:12   Link #11724
TTR
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Hm, I'm still trying to figure out the 07151129 hint

Not really coming up with anything that probably hasn't been found already, haha.
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Old 2010-06-26, 12:15   Link #11725
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Well, it IS Kinzo's island, I wouldn't put it past him to not own any medical kits on the island. I mean people don't even bat an eye to the idea that he'd jump out of the study window to go for a walk unharmed...

But more seriously, I can't imagine Nanjo being innocent in all of this. As Smeckledorf said, it happens waaaaaay too often for a competent practitioner to not come under suspicion.
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Old 2010-06-26, 12:32   Link #11726
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Been thinking about it, cause I think someone recently pointed out that the number of stakes is the same as the number of parents on the island, but has anyone thought of a good reason why the stakes are used? Running around staking corpses or murdering fakers with these stakes, it seems too risky to go running around the mansion in such a manner once the real murders start happening. I was playing around with the idea of each stake representing a metaphorical "stake" in the Kinzo inheritance, but it gets all knocked around because they're used with different people (not Ushiromiyas) and really just makes no sense in terms of why someone would do it.

Last edited by delita-umw-; 2010-06-26 at 12:48.
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Old 2010-06-26, 12:53   Link #11727
Smeckledorf
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Well, the stake sister devil women, I forget what they are actually called, are probably related 1:1 to each parent. Since each parent shows one sin in excess and they each represent a sin. I don't know if they have anything to do with faked deaths.
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Old 2010-06-26, 12:58   Link #11728
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Quote:
I was playing around with the idea of each stake representing a metaphorical "stake" in the Kinzo inheritance
Such pun doesn't work in japanese.
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Old 2010-06-26, 13:07   Link #11729
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Mmm, good call. I'll stay away from silly stake puns now.
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Old 2010-06-26, 13:32   Link #11730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smeckledorf View Post
Well, the stake sister devil women, I forget what they are actually called, are probably related 1:1 to each parent. Since each parent shows one sin in excess and they each represent a sin. I don't know if they have anything to do with faked deaths.
I still don't buy this. Most of them have multiple sins at once, and some of them show no signs of the sins they're imputed within their characterization.
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Old 2010-06-26, 13:32   Link #11731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smeckledorf View Post
Well, the stake sister devil women, I forget what they are actually called, are probably related 1:1 to each parent. Since each parent shows one sin in excess and they each represent a sin. I don't know if they have anything to do with faked deaths.
Yeah. I was thinking

Krauss - Lucifer (pride)
Kyrie - Leviathen (envy)
Natsuhi - Satan (wrath)
Hideyoshi - Belphegor (sloth)
Mammon - Eva (greed)
Beelzebub - Rudolf (gluttony)
Asmodeus - Rosa (lust)

Most are pretty obvious, but I can sortof imagine Rudolf being swapped with Hideyoshi. Hideyoshi, on the other hand, seems to take a similar attitude to Belphegor, wanting to help her to do as little work as possible, while Rudolf seems to be a big fan of excess (which is basically what gluttony is). This also makes more sense if it's in age order (although it means Kyrie is quite a lot older than Rudolf).

Dunno if this means we can use this to read anything in the fantasy scenes... although it does help show why Ange began to understand Eva better in the end.

And damn, it'd be awesome if that pun worked .

Uh, I'll try providing support for the stakes to parents matchup later when I have time. For now, just try looking at the similarities between the ways Natsuhi and Satan act and the way they are received.
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Old 2010-06-26, 13:41   Link #11732
Judoh
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The stake = the Parents sin theory is as old as the Umineko fanbase is. I don't buy it anymore and rereading it I don't even see decent character development for the parents coming from the stakes as representations. Kyrie and Rudolf get character development in those scenes Independent from their corresponding stakes.

I've said all this before too. I just don't get how the fans can cling onto this theory when it's literally done nothing to solve anything.
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Old 2010-06-26, 13:43   Link #11733
Leafsnail
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Well, it's not really meant to solve anything... in the same way that the Siestas lining up to different ammo types doesn't really "solve" anything either. It just sortof... is.

Unless you start with wild "everyone is given a stake" theories :P.
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Old 2010-06-26, 13:50   Link #11734
Smeckledorf
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It doesn't really solve anything, but I would say that each character probably has some representation in the meta-world and this would give the parents a chance to be represented. No culprit theory is going to come out of relating the parents to stakes but I am pretty sure that's why there are seven parents and not eight at the conference. Maria's dad isn't going to pop out of nowhere with a steak knife and say "Oh hey, I have been the one killing everyone all this time," so there is no reason for him not to be there.

Can we not appreciate how the author weaves the tale without trying to solve the damn mystery? I don't really think there is too much left to solve after episode 6 anyways. Just the epitaph and maybe how a few specific twilights were done. But I could be wrong.
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Old 2010-06-26, 13:52   Link #11735
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Mmm, wouldn't it make slightly more sense for the stakes to be switched between Rudolph and Rosa under that model as while a connection between Rosa and gluttony is kinda iffy, while Rudolph is pretty known for his lust for women? Of course ignoring whether or not the theory can even go anywhere.
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Old 2010-06-26, 14:02   Link #11736
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I personally think Rudolph is lust but arguments can be put forth both ways. I don't really see Rudolph as Gluttony but Rosa seems like a Sloth to me.
I have:
Krauss - Wrath
Eva - Greed
Rudolph - Lust
Rosa - Sloth
Natsuhi - Pride
Hideyoshi - Gluttony
Kyrie - Envy
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Old 2010-06-26, 14:15   Link #11737
Leafsnail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delita-umw- View Post
Mmm, wouldn't it make slightly more sense for the stakes to be switched between Rudolph and Rosa under that model as while a connection between Rosa and gluttony is kinda iffy, while Rudolph is pretty known for his lust for women? Of course ignoring whether or not the theory can even go anywhere.
Well, Rudolf is known for lust... but so is Rosa. Indeed, the fact that she puts her own personal want of a husband/ boyfriend over her child is definately her primary sin. Wheras for Rudolf his lust could be part of his wider habit of indulgence (remember that Beelzebub also "likes to imprison cute boys"). It's also because, if they're in this order, then the stakes are in the same order as the parents (assuming Kyrie is indeed significantly older than Rudolf).

Natsuhi <=> Satan is actually the one I'm most sure of. They both often interrupt conversations with outbursts of anger, they're always ignored when doing this, and they're generally disliked by the rest. "Bossy class president" also seems to fit Natsuhi well :P.

Rosa <=> Asmodeus, as well as the lust connection, are both treated as the child of the family, and aren't taken very seriously due to this. Also note how Asmodeus is always trying to get a boyfriend (if she represented Rudolf, she'd probably get a lot more action ).
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Old 2010-06-26, 14:21   Link #11738
Smeckledorf
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I dunno, Natsuhi is always talking about her pride so I would put money on her being pride. As for Rosa, she shirks her duty as a parent for lust which would be sloth. It is a hard call because one could say Rudolph is not much of a parent to Battler so he could also be sloth but aside from Rudolph and Rosa I still to my guns.
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Old 2010-06-26, 14:24   Link #11739
Oliver
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This is precisely why trying to match stakes to parents has not resulted in anything productive to date.
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Old 2010-06-26, 14:26   Link #11740
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She does talk about pride, but it's more about protecting the pride of the Ushiromiya family and her husband rather than her own. Also, Krauss seems to be able to control his temper much, much better than Natsuhi, while trying to make it clear he is the best (Eva's flashback scenes show this, mainly).

And if we're looking at the actual stakes, Satan is a good match for Natsuhi (always getting angry at the others, disliked) while Asmo is a good match for Rosa (youngest, always thought of as childish, always trying and failing to get a boyfriend). Again, Beelzebub seems to be a lot more successful in the field of love than Asmo is...

And "productive"? Well... this is a story, afterall, not just a puzzle.
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