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View Poll Results: Bakemonogatari - Episode 15 Rating
Perfect 10 54 44.63%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 34 28.10%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 18 14.88%
7 out of 10 : Good 12 9.92%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 1.65%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.83%
Voters: 121. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-06-27, 09:07   Link #61
Darknemo2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zato_1one View Post
In short, you're saying that it's NTR if the frustration occur, huh?

Then I doubt that using adultery/cheating is a good description for such word.
More like a frustration of being played with your feelings (in love relationship) of having your lover or potential lover stolen.

Netorare does not have to be consensual thats why we have the Netorare Types of A, B and C - they are ranked by the level of consensus.

But the center of focus is still a frustration of being cheated, it doesn't mean that you had to be cheated, just feel like it.

So cheating/adultery its still a word going hand in hand with Netorare its just that netorare stretches further than that meaning.

The best example would be an anime Boys Be...

The main heroine (well out the all girls the story focused the most) Chiharu never cheated on Kyoichi when she kissed that summer break guy in front of Kyoichi because despite them being childhood friends they never confessed to each other and though Kyoichi tried he failed while she just didn't bother to take that into account seriously.

So when she kissed that random dude she never cheated on Kyoichi, but she did pull out a slight NTR on him and thats why the drift between their relationship happened.

So, NTR is the feeling of being cheated/betrayed - however, technically it could be not cheating or betrayal and just the feeling based on selfishness on ones personal view.
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Old 2010-06-27, 10:14   Link #62
omimon
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Originally Posted by Bangirasu View Post
Wow. Wow. SHINOBU. She´s just the most awesome female character of the series after Sengousajara.
Yeaaaa.....wait until the prequel or sequel and you might reconsider.
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Old 2010-06-27, 16:34   Link #63
zato_1one
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If the meaning is so broad then I think that "steal someone else's wife/lover/love interest" like karice67 said is more appropriate description.
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Old 2010-06-27, 16:58   Link #64
Buddy Waters
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Originally Posted by omimon View Post
Yeaaaa.....wait until the prequel or sequel and you might reconsider.
Hanekawa's great for a doormat, but she's still the most boring character in the series.
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Old 2010-06-27, 17:20   Link #65
omimon
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Originally Posted by Buddy Waters View Post
Hanekawa's great for a doormat, but she's still the most boring character in the series.
I was referring to Shinobu who I believe is a lot more interesting than Senjougahara who I consider entirely useless. I mean if Nisio decides to write more novels on this series I don't think there would be anymore that revolves around Senjougahara.
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Old 2010-06-27, 18:44   Link #66
Marion
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Originally Posted by Buddy Waters View Post
Hanekawa's great for a doormat, but she's still the most boring character in the series.
I disagree. Hanekawa's probably one of the most developed characters in the series. Personally I find Nadeko to be the most boring, because she's such a one dimensional character. She's used more for fanservice to the audience than actually having a chance to be developed as a well-rounded character with some personality.
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Old 2010-06-27, 20:17   Link #67
Buddy Waters
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Originally Posted by Marion View Post
I disagree. Hanekawa's probably one of the most developed characters in the series. Personally I find Nadeko to be the most boring, because she's such a one dimensional character. She's used more for fanservice to the audience than actually having a chance to be developed as a well-rounded character with some personality.
I would have agreed after the anime -- I actually forgot her entirely between the novels and the anime -- but she came into her own a bit in Nisemonogatari.
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Old 2010-06-27, 20:36   Link #68
OokamiKasumi
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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
"Netorare" comes from the verb "netoru" (which means to steal someone else's wife/lover/love interest), and refers to someone who's wife/lover/love interest has entered into a consensual relationship with someone else.
In that case, wouldn't a better translation for "Netorare" be: Seduced or Seduction?
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Old 2010-06-27, 20:41   Link #69
Key Board
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Originally Posted by omimon View Post
I was referring to Shinobu who I believe is a lot more interesting than Senjougahara who I consider entirely useless. I mean if Nisio decides to write more novels on this series I don't think there would be anymore that revolves around Senjougahara.
Yes your bias is clearly showing. He's writing one more for Hachikuji whose story is pretty much over and one more for Hanekawa to wrap up her family issues. It's safe to assume he will eventually cycle through the remaining characters
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Old 2010-06-27, 21:35   Link #70
omimon
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Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
Yes your bias is clearly showing. He's writing one more for Hachikuji whose story is pretty much over and one more for Hanekawa to wrap up her family issues. It's safe to assume he will eventually cycle through the remaining characters
To be fair, it's not that I don't like her. I do find the fact that she doesn't take shit from anyone (except for someone we meet later on and someone else we know already) and the fact that she is quick on her feet (she knew right from the beginning that Tsubasa likes Araragi and that's why she wasted no time screwing around and confessed first) commendable.

But the reason why I like Shinobu better is mostly because she has a lot more potential with Araragi. I mean they are literally connected to each other.
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Old 2010-06-27, 21:51   Link #71
Darknemo2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OokamiKasumi View Post
In that case, wouldn't a better translation for "Netorare" be: Seduced or Seduction?
Well, seuced can be no ones interests/lovers etc. Besides not all NTR are consensual - Type A are, but type B for examples is having girl forced (by blackmail or by force or something like that) at first until she starts enjoying and continues it doing on her own, while type C is a rape from the beginning to the end just that rape involves having or being a love interest to make it into NTR...

So seduction doesnt really cover it either...
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Old 2010-06-27, 22:44   Link #72
Kaoru Chujo
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Personally, I think Hanekawa is an interesting character, partly because of her unconscious self-deception (I think that's what it is). She's maybe the most I've ever enjoyed Horie Yui (nyaan).

Mayoi, too, is interesting, because of her state of being. Shinobu could be fascinating, but really we have seen very little of her until now, so it's more possibility than actuality, so far. Nadeko never did much for me, nor did Sawashiro Miyuki's character, although the bright and open way Miyukicchi voiced her was enjoyable.

But I continue to suffer from the pleasant pain of Senjougahara Fascination. Unique character, beautifully written, and brilliantly played by Saitou Chiwa. Every time we see her, she gives things a jolt of psychic energy.
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Old 2010-06-28, 01:39   Link #73
zato_1one
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Originally Posted by omimon View Post
To be fair, it's not that I don't like her. I do find the fact that she doesn't take shit from anyone (except for someone we meet later on and someone else we know already) and the fact that she is quick on her feet (she knew right from the beginning that Tsubasa likes Araragi and that's why she wasted no time screwing around and confessed first) commendable.
That's not her false. If you want to blame someone, that should be Ararararagi-san.
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Old 2010-06-28, 04:39   Link #74
karice67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OokamiKasumi View Post
In that case, wouldn't a better translation for "Netorare" be: Seduced or Seduction?
Nope, because "netorare" refers to the situation and feelings of the person whose love interest has been taken/seduced. Darknemo has put it pretty well:
Quote:
So, NTR is the feeling of being cheated/betrayed - however, technically it could be not cheating or betrayal and just the feeling based on selfishness on one's personal view.
I don't think there is an English word/expression that covers the same ground.

And apologies for making it more confusing. I don't actually play/follow anything that's NTR, and made the mistake of extending the meaning of "netoru" (which my dictionary notes as being consensual) to "netorare". As others have said, in current usage, it applies to non-consensual cases as well.
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Old 2010-06-28, 08:19   Link #75
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As usual... the episode is so verbally packed I'd better wait for a decent sub to say much. A basic "wow" to Shinobu though....
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Old 2010-06-28, 08:41   Link #76
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I was going to ask, um what sub do I "aquire* O_o

*edit* nevermind I just found some Pem, I used that for episode 14
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Old 2010-06-28, 14:51   Link #77
jmicelander
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i think the best example of this NTR is the anime School Days... there is plenty of seduction and cheating in that anime...
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Old 2010-06-28, 21:21   Link #78
Kunagisa
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The only form of aggressive seduction ever to appear in this series so far is in Nise.

In Bake:
  • Mayoi ... doesn't seduce. Ararargi's just too much of a lolicon.
  • Nadeko hasn't done anything worth of mentioning (no matter how much SHAFT played up the snake play).
  • Kanbaru's just an (awesome) idiot, anything she did was she being herself.
  • Hanekawa is the well conducted one.
  • Hitagi did bit his ear and touch him in awesome teasing places, but she is so scared of coitus (I swear I would've never learned this word if not for Big Bang Theory) that she wouldn't actually do any sort of real seduction.

I find no fault with people who acts on what she wants because that's what it means to be fair to yourself and others. In the end, if you don't confess because you worry about your friend's feeling that is not being fair to the guy/girl whom you like since you never gave him/her a chance to make a decision.

The fact you don't confess just makes you conceited because what makes you think the guy will change his mind at all just because you confess (since that's the only reason why your friend's feeling would be hurt at all by your confession).

With that said, Senjougahara >>> Hanekawa.
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Old 2010-06-28, 21:49   Link #79
Kudryavka
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Hm, so the only subs out for 14 and 15 are pem's? I was waiting for gg to do 14, and 15 too now that it's released, but it's been months. Seems that most fansubbers dropped Bake after episode 12, and gg dropped it after 13, then here comes this "pem" group out of the blue. Are they any good? I'm just a bit confused that pem skipped the first 13 episodes of Bake and went straight for 14. Was pem made just to sub the episodes that no one else would touch?
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Old 2010-06-28, 21:59   Link #80
Marion
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Originally Posted by Komari View Post
Hm, so the only subs out for 14 and 15 are pem's? I was waiting for gg to do 14, and 15 too now that it's released, but it's been months. Seems that most fansubbers dropped Bake after episode 12, and gg dropped it after 13, then here comes this "pem" group out of the blue. Are they any good? I'm just a bit confused that pem skipped the first 13 episodes of Bake and went straight for 14. Was pem made just to sub the episodes that no one else would touch?
Pem doesn't do the best job, but it gives you the general idea.
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