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Old 2010-04-25, 06:15   Link #41
blakbunnie27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yuurisan View Post
No, your paragraph doesn't make any sense
Anyway, blakbunnie27 I think it's a good idea! But many respectable groups that care about fansubbing will keep their reliable translators and continue to release.
Oh yes, of course. I do make my translations public before some of my groups release, but I still put in more effort in the subs that the groups I work with release (answering editor questions, etc). I think that's perfectly fine. People want to release what they're proud to release (for the most part).

I mainly translate for myself and the people who work with me. For me, it's never been about how many insignificant nodes on the Internet download the subs that I and the group I work with put in the effort for (but of course, some of the members could care). They've always been just leechers, and they always will be.

The one big reason this idea triggered for me was because one of the projects I work on this season was/is moving rather slowly, and well... the slowness also seemed to run in the other groups doing the series (which usually doesn't happen). Most of the time, some sort of speedsubs come out within 24-48 hours after airing and people are happy with their watchable subs, while I trot along working on my own stuff with my own people at my own pace, especially if I like the show.

Despite the fact that many leechers have become spoiled to watch their subs at a relatively short time after airing in Japan, my policy on a fast release has been and will always be that if the release is faster than professional subs becoming available in your region, then it's fast enough for you. Clearly, this isn't true for many leechers, and many lose their patience when no subs come out for a week or two while the series in Japan keeps airing on a weekly basis. And when the subs are "late" (lol late; like I have a deadline), they whine and complain.

I don't understand where they even get the nerves to complain about people doing shit for free, but I won't really blame them for complaining since they really can't do anything else to express their frustrations for not being able to watch something others have been able to (the current generation(s) of people are impatient, not just with fansubbed anime), and an expression of frustration is one way to relay to the people who are taking their time that they're taking too much time.

I figured that if I released translations to the public, then I could outsource other people I don't or do know to do a quick and rough job on whatever series I release the translations for. In fact, with the "acquiring the translation" part out of the way in the list of fansubbing jobs, I figured those willing to do something about slow releases will step up, learn how to do the basic jobs of fansubbing, and fix the problems themselves instead of whine (well... one can dream).

It's not like I'll coerce anyone in thinking this is good, because that's not what I want. As stated in the FAQ, if you think it's a dumb idea, it's perfectly fine. I think it's a dumb idea for most of the scenarios I see this season. I was simply hoping I could start a self-sustaining system of people working together on a bigger scale for unquestionable subs before I quit fansubbing after this season.
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Old 2010-04-25, 11:22   Link #42
False Dawn
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I think the problem with doing this, looking more long term, is that it'll be creating more people in other areas than fansubbing will know what to do with. For instance, if three groups start up using that one translation, that's three extra groups of staff that are dependent on that one translation continuing. If for any reason, this idea falls through after a season, or the translator who's doing the public translations for a series just stops, you've immediately got three new groups looking for translators to add to the list of ones already out there looking.

I suppose what I'm saying is that I don't think this is a sustainable idea. The issue fansubbing has is a lack of translators, not a lack of other staff. This would be a good idea if we needed more people trained in timing, editing, encoding, tsing and the like - but to be honest, most of those positions have people at ten a penny. And some of the bigger groups also prefer to train their qcers up (so people that are already used to the group's particular way of working and know the people in there as well so can be trained a lot easier) so I don't envision that really being an issue at any point in the near future. I mean, the only reason I started timing is because Solar's leader told me I'd be a lot more useful if I could time and edit. I think if there's a skills shortage, we should be looking into doing stuff like that first.
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Old 2010-04-25, 12:31   Link #43
Access
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Quote:
Originally Posted by False Dawn View Post
The issue fansubbing has is a lack of translators, not a lack of other staff. This would be a good idea if we needed more people trained in timing, editing, encoding, tsing and the like - but to be honest, most of those positions have people at ten a penny.
Actually if you want to get down to it, there is a skills shortage. Not in the general sense, but in the sense that it can be hard to find reliable, decently skilled people to work on the lesser-known shows.

If I look at the experiences over the years, in 2001 we never had much problem getting anything done. If nobody wanted to do a particular task, we'd just 'volunteer' one of newer members and even if he wasn't in love with the show or didn't like the genre, etc.; belonging to the group was a bigger deal and he'd help out for a few episodes. When that member burned out on the show, we'd go and find another new member and 'volunteer' him. It was the same way with translators. If someone wanted to be a translator, they had to do a few episodes of this-or-that project that would otherwise be stalled first. Belonging to the group had enough pull, that it wasn't that hard to get things done in this way.

Now if you go up to 2003-2006, and keep in mind I was always working on lesser-known or out-of-the-popular-genre shows. I can think of multiple shows where the translator was in fact very dedicated, very much behind the show, had translated every single episode and the scripts, in many cases already timed, were just sitting there and waiting to be worked on. I can say this for multiple groups and multiple shows. In this time belonging to a group really didn't have a lot of pull, no one could force anyone to work on anything, and people really only worked on the stuff that they were 100% behind or in love with. So the lesser known shows we were able to get a release maybe every few weeks. In some cases, it would get stalled and it would take months to get a release out. And it wasn't for lack of trying, constantly trying to recruit people who were both able and willing to work on those shows.

Now lately it hasn't been so bad b'cos there's been a lot of branching out in terms of genres and fans. But yeah, maybe the OPs original idea could be helpful and even sustainable. But who knows really? The problem with forums/discussions like this is everyone thinks they know all the answers, everyone loves to propose solutions or debate their overall worthiness. But in reality, not much actually happens with all that talk and debate. In actuality most of the people who are willing to try something new or are working on something stay out of these discussions. They tend to lead to overthinking, aka. 'analysis paralysis'. It's often better to just go your own way and do your own thing.
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Old 2010-04-25, 12:34   Link #44
jfs
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Wouldn't it maybe be best to create a culture of translators hiring a team, rather than the other way around?
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Old 2010-04-25, 12:57   Link #45
False Dawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfs View Post
Wouldn't it maybe be best to create a culture of translators hiring a team, rather than the other way around?

That'd certainly work for already established translators, but new translators coming to the table would probably need a group of already established fansubbers to fit into, otherwise it could easily turn into a free-for-all (ie, a mess). I think the team aspect of it shouldn't be undervalued either - I find fansubbing a lot more rewarding when the whole team is into as much as you are individually, and that goes for whatever position you're doing.

I think the translators hiring a team does happen in a more vague sense with joints. There will be a number of joints that keep recurring (SS-Eclipse for example) purely because the team members like working together. In times gone by, this has led to groups disbanding and forming these new groups (The Triad for instance) of crack teams who enjoy working together instead of large unwieldy supergroups.

But this is all really just analysis, as Access says. I personally see nothing wrong with the way fansubbing is at the moment, aside from the skills deficit in areas like translating and to some extent, good QCers, but even those issues are vaguely fixable if there's a bit more of a concerted effort to develop people across the board. Even if that's something as simple as an experienced team member QCing an episode or two to check out the work of less experienced guys.

I don't know, I'm thinking of all of this on the fly, and it's all a little off-topic anyway.
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Old 2010-04-25, 21:31   Link #46
EagleStorm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
Fansubbing is already dead, it just doesn't know it yet.
As long as there's anime, as long as there's a way to get raws, as long as there are people with time on their hands and so long as the world doesn't end in 2012, there will always be fansubs.

Just think of why anyone got into fansubbings. Future generations will do it for pretty much the same reasons.

Every generations always think they are better than their predecessors because of the currently available tools/technologies at their disposal. And they always think latter generations doesn't have what it takes.

Guess what? This type of mindset has been around forever and we're not the first to see things that way. Once we're gone, the world will keep spinning and future generations will still keep things going. They'll adapt and use better tools, just like what we are doing as compared to the early era of fansubbers. Just as some of those early fansubbers look down on us, we're doing the same to those that come after us.

And, of course, this is not confined to fansubs. It applies to everything.

The king is dead! Long live the king!
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Old 2010-04-27, 00:12   Link #47
Shouta
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Fansubbing has gone through phases, now is just another one. It went through one when I was a traditional tape subber, it went through one with the highly active but super low-quality era of digisubs in the early 2000s, now it's going through another with the advent of streaming sites. It'll just continue to change.

On the topic of translators, I have always been a lot less satisfied with others doing the work than doing it myself which is why I started one-manning all of the work aside from folks to check that I didn't make major errors. Though, burnout is a problem heh.

Nowadays, folks have access to closed caption streams, I'd be a lot more inclined to do anime if folks would share those to make translating the dialogue easier. The pronunciation of some VAs can be incredibly atrocious or there's too much background chatter to be getting the correct words, or a bunch of other things.
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Old 2010-04-27, 01:24   Link #48
Arm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shouta View Post
Fansubbing has gone through phases, now is just another one. It went through one when I was a traditional tape subber, it went through one with the highly active but super low-quality era of digisubs in the early 2000s, now it's going through another with the advent of streaming sites. It'll just continue to change.

On the topic of translators, I have always been a lot less satisfied with others doing the work than doing it myself which is why I started one-manning all of the work aside from folks to check that I didn't make major errors. Though, burnout is a problem heh.

Nowadays, folks have access to closed caption streams, I'd be a lot more inclined to do anime if folks would share those to make translating the dialogue easier. The pronunciation of some VAs can be incredibly atrocious or there's too much background chatter to be getting the correct words, or a bunch of other things.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=93117
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Old 2010-04-27, 03:54   Link #49
Shouta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arm View Post
Now bring on an anime I want to do.
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Old 2010-04-27, 22:22   Link #50
Schneizel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyth View Post
:words:
The gg message I wrote towards people who would PM me on IRC when we weren't recruiting anything. I also got multiple PM by people who asked shit like, "Do you need a new web admin"? or something. But we've had recruitment drives before and taken in complete fansubbing newbies. 2 of our translators were complete newbies.
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Old 2010-04-28, 01:33   Link #51
tenkenX6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shouta View Post
On the topic of translators, I have always been a lot less satisfied with others doing the work than doing it myself which is why I started one-manning all of the work aside from folks to check that I didn't make major errors. Though, burnout is a problem heh.
I see where you're coming from but personally, I wouldn't attempt one-manning any fansubbing project.

As for translating, I have this quirk as a translator where I don't do any work at all unless I'm motivated and want to actually fansub. I know it sounds pretty lazy/slacker-ish(although, I won't argue that it isn't, to an extent) but that's just how I am as a translator. Being busy all the time in real life tends to demotivate me and cause me to be lazy, a fair chunk of the times. All in all, I don't like to do half-assed translation work, because I don't see the point in doing half-assed work. Also, I don't have fun when I force myself to fansub and nothing really ever gets done or turns out mediocre. Now, I'm not saying I try and make my stuff perfect or professional, but I just give my all to everything I do in life, whether it be fansubbing, working at your job, and etc.
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Old 2010-04-30, 07:54   Link #52
Shouta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenkenX6 View Post
I see where you're coming from but personally, I wouldn't attempt one-manning any fansubbing project.
I've one-manned (aside from QC) a 25 episode series. In retrospect, that series didn't deserve even that. *grumbledragonautgrumble*
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Old 2010-05-16, 21:15   Link #53
grifterprime
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Sent you a message to your site!!!!!!
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Old 2010-05-23, 16:21   Link #54
MaiNoKen
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After checking the OP's website, I see some requests on some older series - not just a random old ones, but notable quality ones. I concur the objective of the OP that fansubbing should never be about E-Peen burn up speed releases with 5-6 groups jumping on the same series. Fansubbing right now is an inefficient use of already bottleneck TL problem, and just as big time wasting for some encoders, timers, typesetters as well; and there are quite a few people have already said something similar.

May be one day I will find extra time doing videos again. I do work on translating various manga series right now - some older and some newer. I will keep OP's website in my mind with the outside possibility of finding extra hobby time.

Quote:
Despite the fact that many leechers have become spoiled to watch their subs at a relatively short time after airing in Japan, my policy on a fast release has been and will always be that if the release is faster than professional subs becoming available in your region, then it's fast enough for you. Clearly, this isn't true for many leechers, and many lose their patience when no subs come out for a week or two while the series in Japan keeps airing on a weekly basis. And when the subs are "late" (lol late; like I have a deadline), they whine and complain.

I don't understand where they even get the nerves to complain about people doing shit for free, but I won't really blame them for complaining since they really can't do anything else to express their frustrations for not being able to watch something others have been able to (the current generation(s) of people are impatient, not just with fansubbed anime), and an expression of frustration is one way to relay to the people who are taking their time that they're taking too much time.
I am very happy to see some younger folks actually have such mentality (I won't disclose my age, but let just say in some context, I may be old enough to be your father). I still got my old VHS fansubs, and I actually used telegram service (and it was bloody expensive - laugh).

Last edited by MaiNoKen; 2010-05-23 at 17:07.
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Old 2010-06-28, 13:39   Link #55
Rose_t
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Long time ago was one password "This is a free fansub not for sale or rent," but disappeared.
Now fansub is share for good groups or bad, slow and fast and etc...
It depends. There is many groups what wanna get much viewers. And those viewers are act different some want thanks for good work others says you are worse than group x or y and your subs troll.
But it was always like this with viewers because not possible to satisfaction all.
People are differents and we can't change this.
But it not change fact that fansub world is getting worse.

Your idea is good but really do it with responsible people and don't care about those who will say that is sukc or etc.

I just think that and wish you success.
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