AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Umineko

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-06-30, 18:30   Link #12301
Leafsnail
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Well, she's pretty good at karate... a well aimed kick could probably do it...

On a more serious note, hormone pills?
Leafsnail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-30, 18:32   Link #12302
Judoh
Mystery buff
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
Adding onto the clues and evidence thing. Someone said the amount of TIPS rivals the bible? Well hunting for clues in this game involves the same kind of thought process as that. We have our own opinions and we look for small statements that aid in the those opinions and guesses, and guessing one thing at a time gets us nowhere. At the same time statements by the characters can be in context and out of context depending on what you relate it to. Just like the bible. There isn't really much "real world evidence" save for the physical evidence for the explosion, and the rest is based on implication and speculation from what is written.

Kind of a deep interpretation, but I hope that makes sense.
Judoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-30, 18:35   Link #12303
Leafsnail
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Now I'm just wonderin' what kind of explosion could have the effects described in ep 1 while still making it look like a serial murder...
Leafsnail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-30, 18:37   Link #12304
DgBarca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
Now I'm just wonderin' what kind of explosion could have the effects described in ep 1 while still making it look like a serial murder...
The message in the wine bottle I guess.
DgBarca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-30, 18:39   Link #12305
Renall
BUY MY BOOK!!!
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Krauss is the more likely culprit in the marital problems, if you ask me. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Jessica really is Natsuhi's daughter (I think it'd be hard to make up being pregnant). The question there would be how she got pregnant, knowing she wouldn't cheat on Krauss.
__________________
Redaction of the Golden Witch
I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

Blog (VN DL) - YouTube Playlists
Battler Solves The Logic Error
Renall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-30, 18:39   Link #12306
Smeckledorf
Intellectual Rapist
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 3 12151805142615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
Now I'm just wonderin' what kind of explosion could have the effects described in ep 1 while still making it look like a serial murder...
Why must the explosion make the it look like a serial murder? Couldn't there be a serial murder and an explosion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
Krauss is the more likely culprit in the marital problems, if you ask me. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Jessica really is Natsuhi's daughter (I think it'd be hard to make up being pregnant). The question there would be how she got pregnant, knowing she wouldn't cheat on Krauss.
Kinzo saw wives as nothing more than borrowed wombs.
__________________
Smeckledorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-30, 18:40   Link #12307
Judoh
Mystery buff
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
Now I'm just wonderin' what kind of explosion could have the effects described in ep 1 while still making it look like a serial murder...
From what we get in EP4 and Ryukishi's statement about the mansion being missing and the terrain change there is not much evidence that there was a serial murder after the accident. The message bottles changed that. We beleive there was one because it is murder mystery though.
Judoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-30, 18:40   Link #12308
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
On a more serious note, hormone pills?
Doesn't work at all.

Like I said, no hormone pills exist for men, or, for that matter, existed in 1955-1963. (well, except those that would simply kill Krauss in a few years) It would be immediately evident to a doctor that seriously checks Natsuhi (which is said to have happened) that something is wrong with her in particular if pills were administered to her.

But even if Natsuhi were never tested, Eva is not sufficiently in control of Natsuhi's environment to ensure she is always taking them, and, as Natsuhi is said to have travelled extensively with Krauss early after their marriage, for long periods she would be completely outside of Eva's reach altogether.

If both Krauss and Natsuhi are healthy, one ovulation period is all it takes, and even one missed pill may be sufficient if it's missed at the right time. Not to mention that as far as I remember, hormonal contraceptives were illegal in Japan all the way until the 90s...
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-30, 18:40   Link #12309
Leafsnail
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
If the explosion completely obliterated the cousins/ everyone still alive on the island including Battler who's apparently outside, wouldn't the police just see it as a tragic explosion death?

...Actually I guess the first twilight victims in ep1 and ep2 were in external buildings, and would thus probably survive the blast. Hmm.
Leafsnail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-30, 18:43   Link #12310
Judoh
Mystery buff
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
If the explosion completely obliterated the cousins/ everyone still alive on the island including Battler who's apparently outside, wouldn't the police just see it as a tragic explosion death?
The police don't beleive it was a murder at all until much much later when the media got to it. And even then it's an avoided topic. They call it an "accident" for a reason.
Judoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-30, 18:53   Link #12311
Smeckledorf
Intellectual Rapist
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 3 12151805142615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
Doesn't work at all.

Like I said, no hormone pills exist for men, or, for that matter, existed in 1955-1963. (well, except those that would simply kill Krauss in a few years) It would be immediately evident to a doctor that seriously checks Natsuhi (which is said to have happened) that something is wrong with her in particular if pills were administered to her.

But even if Natsuhi were never tested, Eva is not sufficiently in control of Natsuhi's environment to ensure she is always taking them, and, as Natsuhi is said to have travelled extensively with Krauss early after their marriage, for long periods she would be completely outside of Eva's reach altogether.

If both Krauss and Natsuhi are healthy, one ovulation period is all it takes, and even one missed pill may be sufficient if it's missed at the right time. Not to mention that as far as I remember, hormonal contraceptives were illegal in Japan all the way until the 90s...
There is such a thing as switching pills. IF Natsuhi were taking medicine then Eva could have switched it out for contraceptive.
The other possibility is more unlikely. They try for years then Brett Farve throws a miracle pass and they achieve pregnancy.
Problem with pregnancy>sheer coincidence.
__________________
Smeckledorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-30, 18:54   Link #12312
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
...Actually I guess the first twilight victims in ep1 and ep2 were in external buildings, and would thus probably survive the blast. Hmm.
We still don't know whether it was one blast, multiple blasts, how extensive they were and how far did they reach. We just know that Kuwadorian, 2km away and probably behind a hill, remained unaffected.

Ryukishi's interviews also say that the wharf was gone.

...hmm. I wonder if we can estimate the distance to the mansion from the wharf. If we can and assume that was the limit, we could calculate the TNT equivalent.
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-30, 18:57   Link #12313
Smeckledorf
Intellectual Rapist
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 3 12151805142615
What if a plane with Beatrice written on it dropped a bomb on the island!!!!!!!!!!
... No mai Gyahd!
__________________
Smeckledorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-30, 18:58   Link #12314
Judoh
Mystery buff
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
Krauss is the more likely culprit in the marital problems, if you ask me. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Jessica really is Natsuhi's daughter (I think it'd be hard to make up being pregnant). The question there would be how she got pregnant, knowing she wouldn't cheat on Krauss.
It'd make more sense for them to look at drugs that would help Natsuhi to become pregnant in that case.
Judoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-30, 18:58   Link #12315
Leafsnail
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Kinzo obtained the island on the cheap with the agreement that it'd eventually become a testing ground for nuclear weapons.

...Unfortunately, he forgot to tell his family about this before he died.


:P

Uh, how would Eva, say, sell off her father's book collection in that case?
Leafsnail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-30, 19:03   Link #12316
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smeckledorf View Post
There is such a thing as switching pills. IF Natsuhi were taking medicine then Eva could have switched it out for contraceptive.
Unfortunately, oral contraceptives were first approved for medical use in 1960. In US. They simply didn't exist at the time Krauss and Natsuhi married, and were not available legally in Japan up until well into the 90s, so Eva would need to jump hoops to get them -- no internet for mail ordering suspicious drugs yet.

Most common packages also contain different pills in the same package, often looking the same, which need to be taken in order or they don't work, so you can't simply switch them for headache medicine and expect the same results.
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-30, 19:04   Link #12317
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
I exclude krauss' impotence. Sterility maybe, but impotence is out of the question.

1) If it was impotence it would be absolutely clear whose fault it is. However Kinzo believes it's Natsuhi the problem, and Natsuhi seems to came to think that as well. She says she visited many doctor to solve the problem, but to no avail.
2) It is said they "tried" many times. Again there's no mention of any problem in the sexual intercourse, the problem is the pregnancy.

Now when a couple can't have children it can only because:

1) The woman is sterile
2) the man is sterile
3) both are sterile

Now... if it wasn't for that red claiming that Natsuhi is pure, I'd say that Krauss isn't Jessica's father...
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-30, 19:06   Link #12318
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
Uh, how would Eva, say, sell off her father's book collection in that case?
By finding it in the Kuwadorian, which is what the text says pretty explicitly.

There may well be some military past for the island, mind you, but definitely not nuclear testing ground -- Japan has the capability to produce nuclear weapons on short notice but no actual weapons. I said "TNT equivalent" because explosives like, say, RDX, also have it, and there's no telling which explosive it could possibly be, but there are tables for TNT equivalent.
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-30, 19:07   Link #12319
Leafsnail
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
She is pure... but what if Krauss agreed it would be best if someone else impregnated her, and encouraged her to seek such a resolution in order to avoid the wrath of his father? She'd probably still be "faithful" then.
Leafsnail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-06-30, 19:12   Link #12320
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
She is pure... but what if Krauss agreed it would be best if someone else impregnated her, and encouraged her to seek such a resolution in order to avoid the wrath of his father? She'd probably still be "faithful" then.
I'm not sure she could be called technically pure in this case, though.
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.