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Old 2010-07-06, 14:53   Link #13141
Smeckledorf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verg Avesta View Post
I've been thinking about this after I saw the new opening, but could it be possible that the "actual" bomb is not supposed to harm anyone? More like, it would be a certain "time limit". For example, Kinzo, after having made his epitaph and put it to display, would have put a bomb that would go off on a certain day, on a certain time. If the epitaph would not be solved in time, and the gold would not be found alongside the bomb, the bomb would explode, destroying the gold-room/the tunnel to the gold-room, making it impossible to access the gold anymore. However, what Kinzo did not take into consideration was that the bomb could cause something else to explode too (Volcanic gases?), destroying the whole mansion. Or maybe someone delibirately made sure that the explosion would kill everyone (Like how I theorized that the destroying the shrine would have let the volcanic gases free to flow again).

Just a thought.
Well, since people are pretty much proven to fake their deaths every game I thought the bomb was meant to erase the evidence. So, people will think the explosion destroyed, annihilated, etc. The corpses and the only accounts to be taken for the murders would be eye witness testimony of the dead bodies. So that the 'dead' people can get away alive. Of course, there is a real murderer and that gets in the way.
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Old 2010-07-06, 14:54   Link #13142
Roccie
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All my theories are crazy around Tetsuro Okonogi, but thats just my Higurashi fangirl in me trying to make mass connections between it all. Like Kinzo got his fortune not from Beatrice, but from "Tokyo".

I need to stop with these crossovers.
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Old 2010-07-06, 14:55   Link #13143
Judoh
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Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
He can simply buy out a business that wants to be bought out and save himself the trouble in this case, you see.

While an interpretation where George actually wants to buy his father's business from underneath him as a proof of his abilities makes sense, there's precious little hints to step on for it.
It could be possible that George was just predicting the arrival of the Heisei era and thought he'd have a good financial situation right?

Otherwise... 3 years to get Kanon to accept them that's my other theory and you haven't responded to it yet.
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Old 2010-07-06, 14:55   Link #13144
delita-umw-
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True, there's not a whole lot of solid grounds for it. I'm not particularly vested in this train of thought, just trying to poke at an idea no one seems to have addressed.

Although...I would be wary of any company that would want to be bought out. Usually they have problems no?
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Old 2010-07-06, 15:00   Link #13145
Oliver
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Otherwise... 3 years to get Kanon to accept them that's my other theory and you haven't responded to it yet.
Well, it does sort of sound plausible, though... if I were George I would be mightily annoyed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by delita-umw- View Post
Although...I would be wary of any company that would want to be bought out. Usually they have problems no?
Many internet startups disagree -- such businesses are frequently built in express hopes of being bought out. There's obviously risks on that path, but there's no longer a legwork requirement, you see. George can buy a business like that purely on his own if he has the money. For a hostile takeover, he needs to talk to hundreds of people very quickly, that requires personnel.
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Old 2010-07-06, 15:04   Link #13146
Verg Avesta
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
@verga avesta

Yeah it's been thought already.... was it Oliver? I don't remember...
Sorry, just didn't see the thought that the original bomb was truly Kinzo's and was needed just to erase the gold, and then somebody went and "spiced things up" a little so it actually blew up the whole mansion. Or maybe I've seen that certain theory, but it has just slipped from my mind. In any case, if it's already completely chewed through, sorry for bringing it up again.
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Old 2010-07-06, 15:10   Link #13147
delita-umw-
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Out of curiosity, how prevalent would you say that kind of startup business was in 1986? I'm not too familiar with startup companies, but my understanding is that kind of business became common because of the internet, which doesn't really open to commercial interests till about 1988 right?
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Old 2010-07-06, 15:13   Link #13148
Oliver
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Originally Posted by Verg Avesta View Post
In any case, if it's already completely chewed through, sorry for bringing it up again.
It's not exactly chewed through, we just haven't found anything to rest this assumption on. The idea that the explosion is multistaged makes sense -- at least I think it does.

First explosion is deliberate, premeditated, and accounted for, and wrecks only the mansion or possibly even less, presumably, for a justifiable, and not even a necessarily malicious reason -- so Rosa in Ep2 survives the first bomb just by being in the chapel at the moment it goes off and isn't even bleeding from her ears. The second one is accidentally but inevitably caused by the first, and actually changes the terrain so much that captain Kawabata cannot find the wharf when he arrives on Monday.

Unfortunately while we can theorise what causes the first explosion, and there's several variants that would produce workable solutions (Krauss insurance fraud, Krauss suicide, Kinzo gold chamber safeguard, Beatrice deadman switch, etc, etc), there's very little good ideas on what could the second explosion possibly be.
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Old 2010-07-06, 15:19   Link #13149
delita-umw-
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Hmm, maybe its a combination of several of those first explosion ideas. Example: Krauss plans insurance fraud/suicide and sets up bombs all over the mansion and for whatever reason, enough to take out the wharf, to be detonated at another time when his family is all gone and he's alone on the island. BUT Kinzo has a gold chamber safeguard that blows up at 12 and then sets off chain reaction explosions all over the island?
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Old 2010-07-06, 15:19   Link #13150
Oliver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delita-umw- View Post
Out of curiosity, how prevalent would you say that kind of startup business was in 1986? I'm not too familiar with startup companies, but my understanding is that kind of business became common because of the internet, which doesn't really open to commercial interests till about 1988 right?
You're right, a startup company explicitly made for sale to a bigger player is a relatively new invention, which mostly results from the current structure of internet economics. However, the practice of buying out a starting out company simply by offering them a good price has existed pretty much forever.
If George has access to the entire gold, he can even pull stuff like buy a startup working in a niche market, use it to drive prices down into the ground to devalue competitors, and then buy them up. If he just wants a business and has the gold, there's little pragmatic reasons to want his father's company specifically.

If he wants to prove himself to his father by becoming his new boss, now that's another story entirely.

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by delita-umw- View Post
Hmm, maybe its a combination of several of those first explosion ideas. Example: Krauss plans insurance fraud/suicide and sets up bombs all over the mansion and for whatever reason, enough to take out the wharf, to be detonated at another time when his family is all gone and he's alone on the island. BUT Kinzo has a gold chamber safeguard that blows up at 12 and then sets off chain reaction explosions all over the island?
The first explosion ideas work specifically because they're relatively easy and cheap to cause, and don't require multiple tons of TNT.
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Old 2010-07-06, 15:27   Link #13151
delita-umw-
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Curse you TNT! *shakes fist* Be more destructive!

edit: Can anyone who's gone through episode 6 confirm that the master of the island thing is 19 is exactly 19? I'm kinda scared of weird schenanigans like the whole there are no more than 18 people on the island red truth.
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Old 2010-07-06, 15:33   Link #13152
Smeckledorf
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You know, episode 6 interests me because I think of it as not complete. Has anyone ever brought up that Battler's piece was 'taken'? Why would the game go on after the king falls? Also, I'm bored.
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Old 2010-07-06, 15:38   Link #13153
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delita-umw- View Post
Curse you TNT! *shakes fist* Be more destructive!

edit: Can anyone who's gone through episode 6 confirm that the master of the island thing is 19 is exactly 19? I'm kinda scared of weird schenanigans like the whole there are no more than 18 people on the island red truth.
It's the "true" master of the gameboard that has 19 years. Or that's what Shannon and Kanon say at least.
That much I can confirm it.

Quote:
You know, episode 6 interests me because I think of it as not complete. Has anyone ever brought up that Battler's piece was 'taken'? Why would the game go on after the king falls? Also, I'm bored.
No I don't think it's true. The game stops at the time of the logic error, it never recovers.
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Old 2010-07-06, 15:52   Link #13154
Smeckledorf
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
No I don't think it's true. The game stops at the time of the logic error, it never recovers.
I'm not saying it is, but since the game uses chess terminology and logic I find it interesting that the game didn't continue after Battler's piece was taken. Then again, it would be hard to continue if Erika no longer exists, I guess she could have just died?
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Old 2010-07-06, 15:58   Link #13155
DgBarca
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Spoiler for EP2:

Can we just die in a fire or...
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Old 2010-07-06, 16:02   Link #13156
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by DgBarca View Post
Spoiler for EP2:

Can we just die in a fire or...
There's certainly a possibility she's pulling a reverse troll here and telling the truth.
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Old 2010-07-06, 16:11   Link #13157
DgBarca
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
There's certainly a possibility she's pulling a reverse troll here and telling the truth.
That.
And guess what she is saying JUST AFTER ?
'You are incompetent!"
Yes...because even if Beato said a valid mystery theory, he didn't fought back with it...

And...This theory make sense.
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Old 2010-07-06, 16:12   Link #13158
Renall
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The sense I got from Eva solving the riddle was that she was thinking along the lines of "That's the answer?" Like she couldn't believe that it wasn't all that special. She and Rosa also seem to think the riddle is childish. Battler and Erika, to my knowledge, have no commentary on the character of the riddle, as they approach it as a word puzzle from the outset. If anyone else has solved it, they haven't offered their opinion.

Given the Qilian theory and others, I am led to conclude the following things about the epitaph are probably true:
  • It is a word puzzle, and once the puzzle is solved, a series of directions to take that lead to the gold location.
  • The word puzzle is based on a metaphorical association of two things (common theory is sweetfish river = railroad). These things do not require any specific knowledge and are not even necessary to the solution (Rosa says the sweetfish wasn't a big hint, but Eva considered it such).
  • The word puzzle most likely involves working in a foreign language, but requires Japanese understanding to know why. The common theory is that the english written above the chapel gives us the characters we must use in the word puzzle, but that you need to approach the riddle in Japanese to realize you're looking for characters in a word.
  • The word puzzle requires knowledge of Kinzo's hometown. Merely knowing where it is appears to give a big hint. However, Battler and Erika appear to be able to solve it without instinctively knowing, the way Eva does, so it may be possible to look it up, ask someone, or guess.
  • The steps taken after the word puzzle involve the chapel in some way, and may or may not involve the grated-over well in the forest. Battler and Erika absolutely were at the chapel, so they were doing something solution-related there. A common theory is that manipulation of the door activates some sort of mechanism.
  • The actions undertaken do not take a very long time or cover an extreme distance, as Rosa and Eva were not gone for very long in ep3.
  • There is some step somewhere along the way that requires some manner of memory or understanding of Kinzo. Eva reflects back on her father in ep3, Battler "sees" Kinzo in ep5. Both insinuate that this hint was a turning point. In Battler's case it was literally so, as it seems to have shown him where to go after the chapel.
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Battler Solves The Logic Error
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Old 2010-07-06, 17:36   Link #13159
Jan-Poo
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I have the same impressions as Renall, I can't disagree with any of his points.
But about the last one I think I can expand it further

-There is some kind of mechanism that must be manipulated.
-Erika didn't know a clear answer on how to do it. She was trying many different patterns
-Erika without realizing it actually got the right pattern, some signpost changed its position as a result of that, but she didn't notice and she kept manipulating the mechanism.
-It was Battler then with the help of "Kinzo" who noticed the signpost and by following it he eventually reached the golden land.


I think the fact that Erika didn't know the right answer right away is quite a good confirmation of what Ryuukishi himself said: "in order to completely solve the riddle you need to actually be there in Rokkenjima."
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Old 2010-07-07, 00:40   Link #13160
Judoh
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Before spoilers for EP7 came out we were speculating if there would be another new detective this time around. I think the most popular picks were Rudolf and Gohda. Rudolf becuase he has the same personality as Battler mostly. Well I just thought of something. Say this new sprite is of Jessica. Maybe it's just what she wears when she has the detective's authority? Just a thought.
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