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Old 2010-07-07, 03:26   Link #13201
Judoh
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Kanon yes he could have a furniture persecution complex as a motive for murder. Or have some kind of Ninja/military training. So could Genji.

Shannon is somebody who is just a convenient murderer if she has a furniture complex (which I'm not 100% sure she has). If you took away that motive from me I wouldn't have any motive for her as a murderer at all. So I kind of wonder what people think are motives for her besides that. And why nobody thinks it's possible Shannon isn't a murderer.

She seems to be a lot like Kinzo in the sense that you wouldn't put it past her.
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Old 2010-07-07, 03:34   Link #13202
Kaisos Erranon
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Shannon, Kanon, or both basically HAVE to be the murderers for Ep1, due to restrictive red text. In addition, since they're around for the Tea Party like the rest of the survivors, well...

As for Genji, I wouldn't be surprised if he was ex-military. He does constantly talk about Kinzo having done him a massive favor long ago, and I don't remember if that was ever explained or not. Since Kinzo was also in the war, as I recall... could he have saved Genji's life?
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Old 2010-07-07, 03:36   Link #13203
Kylon99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Kanon yes he could have a furniture persecution complex as a motive for murder. Or have some kind of Ninja/military training. So could Genji.

Shannon is somebody who is just a convenient murderer if she has a furniture complex (which I'm not 100% sure she has). If you took away that motive from me I wouldn't have any motive for her as a murderer at all. So I kind of wonder what people think are motives for her besides that. And why nobody thinks it's possible Shannon isn't a murderer.

She seems to be a lot like Kinzo in the sense that you wouldn't put it past her.


Actually, I should have asked for Kanon theories that the clues support too... I guess ninja, brainwashing and military are kinda out... 8) And I can't think of anything, my brain is toast..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Shannon, Kanon, or both basically HAVE to be the murderers for Ep1, due to restrictive red text. In addition, since they're around for the Tea Party like the rest of the survivors, well...

As for Genji, I wouldn't be surprised if he was ex-military. He does constantly talk about Kinzo having done him a massive favor long ago, and I don't remember if that was ever explained or not. Since Kinzo was also in the war, as I recall... could he have saved Genji's life?
I suspect Kanon did kill people but he's not exactly a culprit. More like a revenge killer like Eva... For example, I put him as the killer of Nanjo in EP3... and then he walked right past him and 'rescued' Jessica. That seems to me to be the simplest answer. But that may suggest that he's the killer in EP1 too... or Shkannon, maybe.

Oh for Shannon, I'm guessing that she's a victim of all the other conspiracies and is forced to do things... like play Beatrice. But like Beatrice she might be viewed as the culprit but really isn't?

And definitely there's at least that one obvious hint in EP2 about Genji being an expert at throwing knives. Even if it was a 'fantasy' scene...
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Old 2010-07-07, 03:38   Link #13204
Judoh
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Nobody likes it after EP3, but well Hideyoshi could be faking in EP1...he's not technically declared dead at the time...so...
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Old 2010-07-07, 03:44   Link #13205
delita-umw-
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I've actually never viewed Shannon as a murderer so I'm kinda curious what everyone who thinks she is has to say as to why and what kinda motive she has. Like Judoh, outside of flimsy furniture complex, I just don't see a motive and I dunno...the impression I get from her personality makes me think she's really easily manipulated by others/the situation. Course, having said that, I'm probably gonna get trolled hard come next ep =P.
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Old 2010-07-07, 03:51   Link #13206
Judoh
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Besides Battler's sin yeah. George or somebody manipulating Shannon to kill people seems to be the only thing that makes sense for her.

One thing I found interesting about that conversation about his sin though is that Beatrice says something along the lines of "isn't there something on this island that reminds you of something?". So recently I thought the clue to his sin might actually be a location or a landmark and not a statement, but I have no idea what it could be.
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Old 2010-07-07, 03:53   Link #13207
Oliver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
As for Genji, I wouldn't be surprised if he was ex-military. He does constantly talk about Kinzo having done him a massive favor long ago, and I don't remember if that was ever explained or not. Since Kinzo was also in the war, as I recall... could he have saved Genji's life?
I've proposed this idea a while ago, but the problem with it is that Kinzo never served on the front lines, so there's few stories that could allow this to happen... wait, idea. It's just a story, mind you, but it's a story to tie several loose ends in a romantic fashion.

It's 1945, and Kinzo serves on the home front doing something rather unglamorous, like captaining a torpedo boat in the coast guard, looking for a chance to sink an American submarine and not getting one.

Why coast guard? Because he has a chance to meet a vessel hauling a significant portion of Yamashita's treasure, collected all across Asia as part of Japanese military ventures, which is crashing into the shores of Rokkenjima by mistaking a light on the island for the lighthouse of nearby Niijima.

Genji served on that vessel, and was the only survivor, Kinzo preferred to save him when he had a chance to acquire far more than his weight in gold in exchange, and gained in this manner his most loyal retainer ever. Only 10 tons of gold were recovered in the end out of a much bigger load, and were hidden on the island, and later, Kinzo acquired the island and built a proper vault to keep it.

Beatrice was in some uncertain manner the source of this light on the island and Kinzo's passion from this day.
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Old 2010-07-07, 03:57   Link #13208
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Looking good, expecially because ( as far as i remember ) nobody said anything in red about all the gold ingots having the one winged eagle carved on, maybe just one, for display.
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Old 2010-07-07, 04:01   Link #13209
Oliver
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Originally Posted by m0h View Post
Looking good, expecially because ( as far as i remember ) nobody said anything in red about all the gold ingots having the one winged eagle carved on, maybe just one, for display.
Any source of gold like that which historically existed or has been rumoured to exist, whether it be the Hetman Semyonov's gold, Yamashita's treasure or the M Funds (which are the only three gold legends I have been able to identify that have a serious chance of being the origin of Kinzo's gold) would come in rather varied forms and is the result of plunder by different parties.

Plunder needs to be concealed, lest someone tries to track down legal owners, and recasting gold into bars of your own would be the way to do it.
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Old 2010-07-07, 04:02   Link #13210
Judoh
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Well Kinzo did once say that everything he did was pure luck...

EDIT: Oh and as an extra hint the Yamashita treasure is specifically mentioned in the Higurashi so Ryukishi definitely knows what it is.

Last edited by Judoh; 2010-07-07 at 05:00.
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Old 2010-07-07, 04:11   Link #13211
Oliver
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
EDIT: Oh and as an extra hint the Yamashita treasure is specifically mentioned in Higurashi so Ryukishi definitely knows what it is.
Damn, why didn't you mention this sooner, that was the only serious snag for not settling on Yamashita's treasure as the origin of Kinzo's gold.
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Old 2010-07-07, 04:15   Link #13212
Judoh
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Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
Damn, why didn't you mention this sooner, that was the only serious snag for not settling on Yamashita's treasure as the origin of Kinzo's gold.
I don't know! I just remembered it now, but I remember thinking about it when you mentioned it before...

It's actually Keiichi that mentions it I think.
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Old 2010-07-07, 04:20   Link #13213
Oliver
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
I don't know! I just remembered it now, but I remember thinking about it when you mentioned it before...
Well, now that you did, Yamashita's treasure is definitely it - the only reason not to pick it was that we don't really know how famous is that legend in Japan, the most prominent sources describing it appear to be Western. But if we're certain that Ryukishi knows about it, it is the most natural one for him to reference.

Guess I need to read up on it in greater detail, there's a chance a Beatrice might come up even if that story proposed above is not correct. But I suspect it may well be. A total stranger picking your life from between your life and multiple tons of gold can definitely inspire great loyalty.
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Old 2010-07-07, 04:27   Link #13214
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I was playing EP3 again, and in the beginning...the "Grandfather" Beatrice is talking about...seems to be like Kinzo.
And the mansion looks like Kuwadorian anyway.
But...if we follow Moetrice : Battler = Father, so Kinzo = Grandfather. Connexion between Moetrice and the Beatrice in the beginning of EP3 ?

Kumasawa should have a very strong vase-fixing ability...
And this black cat breaking the vase again...Bern was trolling Beato from long ago it seems.

"The fate of the vase breaking hadn't changed, but the fact that I had broken it certainly had."
Beatrice motive is to prevent Battler from the cruel fate of the island burning completely. But Beatrice can't say the harsh truth of the "bomb" or whatever because of reason X. The only safe place is where the gold is hidden, it's why she wants Battler and everybody by solving the riddle of the epitaph.

Even Bern says the "the fate of yours is truly brutal".

Last edited by DgBarca; 2010-07-07 at 04:45.
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Old 2010-07-07, 04:30   Link #13215
Oliver
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Originally Posted by DgBarca View Post
Kumasawa should have a very strong vase-fixing ability...
More like cat-conjuring ability. There are no hints whatsoever that Rokkenjima is populated by any land animals other than birds, and a wild cat showing up is not terribly believable.
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Old 2010-07-07, 04:33   Link #13216
DgBarca
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More like cat-conjuring ability. There are no hints whatsoever that Rokkenjima is populated by any land animals other than birds, and a wild cat showing up is not terribly believable.
Rokkenjima in 10km long. It's not that tiny.
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Old 2010-07-07, 04:35   Link #13217
Oliver
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Originally Posted by DgBarca View Post
Rokkenjima in 10km long. It's not that tiny.
It's 10km around but not long. It's 2km from the main mansion to Kuwadorian, this is well known. It is also well known they are on opposite edges of the island. Giving a margin of 300-500 meters from the shore for either, and assuming it's round, we get about 3km in 'diameter', as much as we can talk about a diameter here, which produces just about 10km of shoreline.
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Old 2010-07-07, 04:39   Link #13218
DgBarca
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Ho, it's 10km around ? Well, I have edited my above post.
(And proving if a cat could have been there is Devil's proof.)

Virgilia says to Beatrice that she has also a professor, and this one is very, very powerful.
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Old 2010-07-07, 04:44   Link #13219
Oliver
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Originally Posted by DgBarca View Post
(And proving if a cat could have been there is Devil's proof.)
Doubtlessly, that was what Virgilia used when saying that she saw a cat break the vase.
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Old 2010-07-07, 04:47   Link #13220
DgBarca
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Doubtlessly, that was what Virgilia used when saying that she saw a cat break the vase.
This black cat was Schrödinger's.
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