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Old 2004-09-15, 18:02   Link #41
kboykb
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I've been meaning to ask that for a while.. Isn't it pretty much safe to say that Sasuke and Itachi's father was a master of the sharingan? I mean, none of us know if he had the mangekyou sharingan or anything.. but it seemed that out of all the ninja of the village.. at least his dad would put some scratches on him or something..

Itachi didn't look worn down at all.. almost as if he wasn't hurt, or had little resistence put up against him.. maybe his dad was like Sarutobi and couldn't hurt his son (or pupil in Saru's case?)

Or maybe Itachi was just incredibly strong and none of the ninja could touch him..
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Old 2004-09-15, 18:46   Link #42
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Well, because his children both turned out to be sharingan users doesn't necessarily mean he was.

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Old 2004-09-15, 19:18   Link #43
realdeal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uchiha_Rurik
Did you read wath have you just put in there??????????????????

I dont need no proof for that Clearly Itachi Sharinganis way better reading than Kakshi.............

i got 2 Reasons..............

A) is in a Uchiha Body...were it works the best (said By Itachi himself)

B) He got 2 sharingan eyes...and the last time Cheked someone with 2 eyes can see better than someone with one eye!

and BTW, if Kakashi is as the same Lvl of reading than Itachi...Why Itachi had the upperhand in the battle?
A) The Sharingan tires easily on Kakashi because hes not a Uchiha. I dont think mange is attainable for kakashi. There was no mention of his sharingan not being able to use its functions.

B) Thats possible, except not proven. If with 2 eyes you can see 1mile away, with 1 eye you could probably still see 1mile away.

If I recall correctly, Itachi had faster jutsu speed as stated by kakashi and the tsuk.

By reading I was talking about how it was shown on manga, it sort of predicts when the opponent is going to go next. I believe the funtions are set with each lvl rather than improved. For example if with 1 dot you can predict 1 move ahead, with 2 dots 2 moves, with 3 dots 3moves.
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Old 2004-09-15, 21:05   Link #44
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[QUOTE=Hunter]I can and I did.
Gai is strong but he's not legendary, the way Gai made the sound nin pass through a wall during the war was impressive.
But it's nothing compared to what Tsunade did without even seeming to force herself when she destroyed a street with a mere kick or worse when she swung Gamabunta's sword.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
We haven't seen Gai go all out so you can't assume things. And about him not being Legendary so that makes him extremely crappy compared to Tsunade because of that? Then Itachi sucks compared to the sannins hokage and others because he's not legendary.
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Originally Posted by Hunter
In term of Taijutsu and speed Gai seems way better than Tsunade but in term of pure raw physical strength they just don't play in the same category.
We have yet to see Gai fight seriously.

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Originally Posted by Hunter

Here the point, Gai is a Taijutsu specialist, Itachi can beat him in no-time very easily, why?
A simple use of his explosive Kage Bunshin. Everybody is impressed by the Tsukiyomi but this jutsu is overkill as well, Gai who fight in close combat would be in huge trouble because of this jutsu.
Without speaking that against the level of Sharingan of Itachi, being simply faster than him wouldn't help at all.
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You don't know that he can beat him in no time very easily. He didn't even beat Kakashi in no time very easily so i seriously doubt that Gai would be a lot easier to beat. Gai should have enough speed to run away. But that's still an assumption but as the other jounins were able to avoid it i'm sure Gai may be able to. You don't know how fast Gai is to Itachi, it maybe another Lee-Sasuke in temrs of speed.

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Originally Posted by Hunter
So in the end does Gai would do better than Kakashi, I think so because in the end Kakashi was crushed extremely quickly.
But much longer and during a way more difficult fight?
Frankly I don't think so, as I said even with the very few moves that we saw from Itachi Gai would be seriously in trouble.
And you also say that iwth the very little moves we've seen from Gai.
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Old 2004-09-16, 05:59   Link #45
Hunter
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Originally Posted by UserName
We haven't seen Gai go all out so you can't assume things. And about him not being Legendary so that makes him extremely crappy compared to Tsunade because of that? Then Itachi sucks compared to the sannins hokage and others because he's not legendary.
We haven't seen Itachi going all out either and I'm not assuming anything I merely basing my point on what the manga showed and hinted, if you prefer to go with what you would like to see it's your choice but you're the one assuming not me.
Then if Gai isn't extremely crappy in front of a Sannin, he is however far weaker yes.
And the point isn't that he's weaker because they're legendary but that he's weaker because they're stupidily strong which is why they became legendary.

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We have yet to see Gai fight seriously.
Bullshit, we have yet to see Kurenai fighing seriously as well, that doesn't mean she has the same strength as Tsunade.
The simple truth is that Gai neither any other characters in the whole show ever showed the kind of physical strength of Tsunade.
Oh yeah except some Godzilla-class summon.

Tsunade strenght is so insanely high that one blow can end the fight and your life with it, Gai's strong but his kick didn't even phase Kisame.

Quote:
You don't know that he can beat him in no time very easily. He didn't even beat Kakashi in no time very easily so i seriously doubt that Gai would be a lot easier to beat. Gai should have enough speed to run away. But that's still an assumption but as the other jounins were able to avoid it i'm sure Gai may be able to. You don't know how fast Gai is to Itachi, it maybe another Lee-Sasuke in temrs of speed.
Get real, Itachi beat Kakashi in less than a minute if you want a hard fight between two very good Jounins watch Zabuza vs. Kakashi.
Then fast enough to run away from a clone which would explode instead of pouffing? How that?

Quote:
And you also say that iwth the very little moves we've seen from Gai.
And with the very few little moves we've seen from Itachi.

Last edited by Hunter; 2004-09-16 at 06:10.
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Old 2004-09-16, 09:02   Link #46
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Originally Posted by realdeal
A) The Sharingan tires easily on Kakashi because hes not a Uchiha. I dont think mange is attainable for kakashi. There was no mention of his sharingan not being able to use its functions.

B) Thats possible, except not proven. If with 2 eyes you can see 1mile away, with 1 eye you could probably still see 1mile away.

If I recall correctly, Itachi had faster jutsu speed as stated by kakashi and the tsuk.

By reading I was talking about how it was shown on manga, it sort of predicts when the opponent is going to go next. I believe the funtions are set with each lvl rather than improved. For example if with 1 dot you can predict 1 move ahead, with 2 dots 2 moves, with 3 dots 3moves.
That wath Kakshi said, not Itachi,....Itachi said "WORK"....there are many things that come with the Word "WORK", not just get tired

B) but someone who needs glasses, that have problem both eyes....if you put them only one aumnted Glass, do you think it will see better than the whole glass aummented? also the insigth is far better, Kakshi has a blind spot, you know that when something comes from youre left side you tend to use more the left eye than the Right? Imagine is someone comes from the most left side of Kakshi.....he will have to move his head and try to use the sharingan, but in the ninja word that time lost coul mean death....and Itachi has 20/20 Sharingan Vision.


Itachi was suprised by the usagge of Kakshi Sharingan, but never said "Wow Kakshi Sharingan Insigth is the Same as mine!"....


and te dot prediction thing...were did you get that? and if we go to taht you can say itachi have 6 dots and Kakshi have 3 dots!...do you remember whern Sasuke got 1 Dot y one Eye and 2 Dot in the other....yo tellng me that because he had 2 in one eye his insigth was equal to the moment he got 2 in both eyes?

Lets be serius here, AS for the ussage of Sharingan Kakashi will never be equal in any field With Itachi, nor Sasuke (in a future sense)
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Old 2004-09-16, 22:50   Link #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
We haven't seen Itachi going all out either and I'm not assuming anything I merely basing my point on what the manga showed and hinted, if you prefer to go with what you would like to see it's your choice but you're the one assuming not me.
Then if Gai isn't extremely crappy in front of a Sannin, he is however far weaker yes.
And the point isn't that he's weaker because they're legendary but that he's weaker because they're stupidily strong which is why they became legendary.


Bullshit, we have yet to see Kurenai fighing seriously as well, that doesn't mean she has the same strength as Tsunade.
The simple truth is that Gai neither any other characters in the whole show ever showed the kind of physical strength of Tsunade.
Oh yeah except some Godzilla-class summon.

Tsunade strenght is so insanely high that one blow can end the fight and your life with it, Gai's strong but his kick didn't even phase Kisame.


Get real, Itachi beat Kakashi in less than a minute if you want a hard fight between two very good Jounins watch Zabuza vs. Kakashi.
Then fast enough to run away from a clone which would explode instead of pouffing? How that?


And with the very few little moves we've seen from Itachi.
I think maybe being trained by the Hokage may have something to do with why their legendary. Of course the strenght but they don't just tower over others in every single area. I doubt Oro or Jiraiya are say up to par in some areas with some jounins and Tsuande maye in a ninjutsu area or something like that. THey don't excel in every single area.

So you are saying Itachi beat Kakashi easily? Even though he what is probably his strongest jutsu? And also was a bit ... 'messed up' or affect in some way after doing his last move. It wasn't just a breeze. If someone uses their best jutsu then the fight wasn't easy as pie.
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Old 2004-09-16, 22:57   Link #48
Genei Killua
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I wouldn't assume that the Mangekyou is Itachi's best move.
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Old 2004-09-16, 23:07   Link #49
UserName
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Originally Posted by Genei Killua
I wouldn't assume that the Mangekyou is Itachi's best move.
I think there's more than enough information in the manga to come up with that conclusion. But if he has a more powerful move(which cannot be a sharingan move) it will probably be a suicide move seeing as how the mange moves already f' him up.
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Old 2004-09-16, 23:22   Link #50
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Well, the Amaratsu could be more powerful. Also, one doesn't always acquire the most powerful jutsu of one's life at the age of 12 or 13.

Itachi's had 4-5 years since becoming a missing-nin to develop more terrifying jutsus. We've only seen him fight 2 times. From this you think we can conclude what his most powerful jutsu is?
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Old 2004-09-16, 23:31   Link #51
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Itachi has yet more to show of his power.
First Amatseru has not been clearly shown so no conclusion is possible
Second Itachi we possibly havent seen him fight at his max.
Third Why are we jumping to conclusions of how powerful someone is based on so little facts.
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Old 2004-09-16, 23:43   Link #52
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It is one of the mange sharingan's move. THe mange sharingan is basically the ultimate sharingan. There seems to be an emphasis on 3 in the sharingan. So if anything there may be 1 more move. But I doubt ITachi will obtain it seeing as how Sasuke needs a way to beat him.

The Mange sharingan moves drained him out, we've seen moves that take a lot of his chakra reserve and effects his minds. If there is a stronger move it won't be a uchiha-related move and it would severly hurt him maybe both mentally and pyschically.

And you can't say you're just assuming things and we've barely scratched the surface of teh sharingan if you aren't very up to date with the manga.
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Old 2004-09-17, 00:54   Link #53
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Spoiler:
the Tsukiyomi not the Amatseru. Mangekyou means 'kaleidoscope' so there's no way these two moves are the same.

Itach is a character driven by power. He's had half a decade since he left to search and find out more. So, let's not judge just yet.

To comment on the power required by the Mangekyou and the like--surely either a large amount of chakra is required or it just puts wear and tear on the sharingan. Yes, Itachi ran away from Jiraiya after having used 2 special moves a total of three times, so obviously they require a lot of chakra, but let's not assume they used even 1/3 of Itachi's total chakra. Itachi is just a wise ninja and knows that to take on a ninja of Jiraiya's caliber, you really need most or all of your chakra. He doesn't plan on dying, you see.
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Old 2004-09-17, 08:40   Link #54
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Originally Posted by UserName
I think maybe being trained by the Hokage may have something to do with why their legendary. Of course the strenght but they don't just tower over others in every single area. I doubt Oro or Jiraiya are say up to par in some areas with some jounins and Tsuande maye in a ninjutsu area or something like that. THey don't excel in every single area.
I don't remember to have ever say that they're better in every single area, their overall strength is just far higher than the other.
Gai is more than probably better than Oro in Taijutsu but he would be still crushed in a fight against him.

And being trained by the 4th, the greatest hero of Konoha, doesn't seem to be enough to gain a reputation such as the Sannin for Kakashi and his (dead?) comrade.
The Sannin are just way stronger than almost anyone in the show.

Quote:
So you are saying Itachi beat Kakashi easily? Even though he what is probably his strongest jutsu? And also was a bit ... 'messed up' or affect in some way after doing his last move. It wasn't just a breeze. If someone uses their best jutsu then the fight wasn't easy as pie.
Yes he did, as Oro was crushing the 3rd easily and without sweating with his two undead summons before Sandaime summon a God of Death, the level of the Edo Tensei among Oro's jutsu doesn't matter it simply wasn't a difficult fight for him at this point of the combat.

The fact is that Itachi wasn't in trouble even once during this fight which barely lasted one minute, that actually Kakashi didn't even find a moment to attack him.
And messed up? Don't exagerate, the effort to use the Tsukiyomi make him sweat a little and breath a little more heavily during a few second, nothing else.
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Old 2004-09-17, 08:46   Link #55
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why has this post from gai turned back to itachi?
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Old 2004-09-17, 08:52   Link #56
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It's contagious, lately every thread seem to turn into a Itachi's discussion
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Old 2004-09-17, 09:48   Link #57
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Originally Posted by Hunter
I don't remember to have ever say that they're better in every single area, their overall strength is just far higher than the other.
Gai is more than probably better than Oro in Taijutsu but he would be still crushed in a fight against him.

And being trained by the 4th, the greatest hero of Konoha, doesn't seem to be enough to gain a reputation such as the Sannin for Kakashi and his (dead?) comrade.
The Sannin are just way stronger than almost anyone in the show.


Yes he did, as Oro was crushing the 3rd easily and without sweating with his two undead summons before Sandaime summon a God of Death, the level of the Edo Tensei among Oro's jutsu doesn't matter it simply wasn't a difficult fight for him at this point of the combat.

The fact is that Itachi wasn't in trouble even once during this fight which barely lasted one minute, that actually Kakashi didn't even find a moment to attack him.
And messed up? Don't exagerate, the effort to use the Tsukiyomi make him sweat a little and breath a little more heavily during a few second, nothing else.
... My point was that Gai strength isn't like a ant to say The Hulk compared to Tsunade's. It may be or it may not, but even from what we've seen it's not. I doubt he'd go all out against someoen not up to his level.

Hmm... did Oro's jutsu need effort to use? No. Itachi did, obviously the Tsukiyomi doesn't leave you completely well of. Itachi used at least some effort in it. I remember yous aying something about extreme concetrtion or something like that in some Itachi thread or it may even be this one. But does someoen you beat extremely easy need any concentration?
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Old 2004-09-17, 10:58   Link #58
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... My point was that Gai strength isn't like a ant to say The Hulk compared to Tsunade's. It may be or it may not, but even from what we've seen it's not. I doubt he'd go all out against someoen not up to his level.
What's your point? That Gai guessed that Kisame wasn't up to his level so he purposely weakened his kick not to kill him? Please...
I don't know exactly the difference of physical strength between Gai and Tsunade but as far as we saw, Tsunade showed way more strength than him, that's all.

Quote:
Hmm... did Oro's jutsu need effort to use? No. Itachi did, obviously the Tsukiyomi doesn't leave you completely well of. Itachi used at least some effort in it. I remember yous aying something about extreme concetrtion or something like that in some Itachi thread or it may even be this one. But does someoen you beat extremely easy need any concentration?
Yeah to summon two undead Hokage must use quite a bit of chakra, like to summon something as Manda or Gamabunta, an amount of chakra that can't be used too much even for the Sannin.
And yes I think that the Tsukiyomi is dangerous to use (as it's stated anyways) whatever the amount of chakra it uses.

But even that doesn't change how the fight was going, the fact is that Kurenai was losing is less than 10s and that the little intervention of Kakashi which barely lasted a minute ended with him wounded and tired.
Actually at the point when Itachi used the Tsukiyomi, he had the complete upper hand, neither Kurenai nor Asuma could open their eyes, Kakashi was the only one able to fight (or so he thought) whereas Itachi had yet to drop a single sweat and had Kisame who could attack them whenever he wanted.

Itachi wasn't at all in a tight situation forcing him to use a dangerous jutsu, he calmly praised Kakashi to be able to use the Sharingan to this extent though he wasn't an Uchiha but added that it wasn't the true strength of the Sharingan and showed to him what he meant, crushing him definitively doing so.
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Old 2004-09-17, 13:28   Link #59
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I'm not sure if the argument here is if Gai is stronger than X, or how strong Gai is. I guess I'll add 2 cents to each.

I don't think that Gai is stronger than Itachi, but then again not much known about Gai. We all know that he has fought Kakashi before, but we're not sure what those fights were about, did they "seriously" fight? Gai can probably open the gates, and we're not sure what opening more than 5 gates gives the user exactly. Yet, with the new chapters of manga we're not know a bit more about the sharingan, so it seems that if Gai only uses hand to hand fighting he might no fare so well against Itachi. I'm not too sure about that, because if Gai switches to the drunken fist style, I'm not sure if the sharingan can catch which way the blow would come. Sharingan does not see the future, I think it predicts movements based on previous "stored" data, like a really good computer. Yet, with a fightning style that changes on demand, I'm not sure if Itachi could predict it, but that's neither here nor there.

Overall, Itachi probably has enouth techniques to kill just about anyone. Gai is powerful, but until he officially fights and has to go to his limit, we're not sure how powerful. The whole gate thing is a bit of a mystery, we can speculate but until the 6th, or 7th gate is opened we're not really sure. Yet, since Kakashi got beaten by Itachi, we're pretty sure where he stands on the whole power scale.
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Old 2004-09-17, 20:02   Link #60
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Originally Posted by Hunter
What's your point? That Gai guessed that Kisame wasn't up to his level so he purposely weakened his kick not to kill him? Please...
I don't know exactly the difference of physical strength between Gai and Tsunade but as far as we saw, Tsunade showed way more strength than him, that's all.
I doubt a hit from Tsunade will kill him too... you overestimate Tsunade and underestimate Gai. You seem to think Gai's strength is so incredibly weak compared to Tsunade's. And My point is that you don't know how much weaker Gai's strength is so you can't go off assuming it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Yeah to summon two undead Hokage must use quite a bit of chakra, like to summon something as Manda or Gamabunta, an amount of chakra that can't be used too much even for the Sannin.
And yes I think that the Tsukiyomi is dangerous to use (as it's stated anyways) whatever the amount of chakra it uses.
Who knows but that is beside the point. Itachi was affected by the use of the Tsukiyomi so therefore the fight wasn't a completely breeze for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter

But even that doesn't change how the fight was going, the fact is that Kurenai was losing is less than 10s and that the little intervention of Kakashi which barely lasted a minute ended with him wounded and tired.
Actually at the point when Itachi used the Tsukiyomi, he had the complete upper hand, neither Kurenai nor Asuma could open their eyes, Kakashi was the only one able to fight (or so he thought) whereas Itachi had yet to drop a single sweat and had Kisame who could attack them whenever he wanted.
And?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Itachi wasn't at all in a tight situation forcing him to use a dangerous jutsu, he calmly praised Kakashi to be able to use the Sharingan to this extent though he wasn't an Uchiha but added that it wasn't the true strength of the Sharingan and showed to him what he meant, crushing him definitively doing so.
Even though this is besides the point, Itachi didn't breeze through the fight once again. He used that jutsu. It doesn't matter if it was for or not, it's the fact that he was obviously tired or something like that after using it therefore the match wasn'ta breeze for him.
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