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Old 2010-07-11, 19:30   Link #2181
ChainLegacy
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Wow I actually found this episode pretty funny in a weird way. Krillin is hilarious at the beginning with his cowardice, especially when 17 points him out. Then the androids themselves are pretty funny too, a trait I didn't grasp when I was younger. You have to feel bad for Trunks though, this is probably Vegeta's low point of the series.
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Old 2010-07-11, 20:18   Link #2182
FlareKnight
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Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
Wow I actually found this episode pretty funny in a weird way. Krillin is hilarious at the beginning with his cowardice, especially when 17 points him out. Then the androids themselves are pretty funny too, a trait I didn't grasp when I was younger. You have to feel bad for Trunks though, this is probably Vegeta's low point of the series.
Definitely have sympathy for Trunks. He tried so damn hard to prevent this exact situation from happening. Still the most important person to convince just wouldn't listen. I mean if your kid from the future says you are going to get killed it might not be a bad idea to actually listen. But we are talking about Vegeta and after becoming a Super Saiyan I guess there isn't much other than a beating that will stop him.
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Old 2010-07-11, 20:43   Link #2183
AnimeFan188
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Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
Wow I actually found this episode pretty funny in a weird way. Krillin is hilarious at the beginning with his cowardice, especially when 17 points him out. Then the androids themselves are pretty funny too, a trait I didn't grasp when I was younger. You have to feel bad for Trunks though, this is probably Vegeta's low point of the series.
Why did No. 17 want Krillin to come forward anyway? Was there some reason that
was stated back in DBZ, but not mentioned in Kai?
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Old 2010-07-11, 22:26   Link #2184
ChainLegacy
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Definitely have sympathy for Trunks. He tried so damn hard to prevent this exact situation from happening. Still the most important person to convince just wouldn't listen. I mean if your kid from the future says you are going to get killed it might not be a bad idea to actually listen. But we are talking about Vegeta and after becoming a Super Saiyan I guess there isn't much other than a beating that will stop him.
Doesn't even stop him though cuz if I remember correctly he'll do the same thing with Cell not too far from now.

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Why did No. 17 want Krillin to come forward anyway? Was there some reason that
was stated back in DBZ, but not mentioned in Kai?
I think 17 was just playing around with him, and it was only there for the comedy of Krillin's reaction. Not sure though.
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Old 2010-07-12, 01:09   Link #2185
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Great episode that set things up for the beatdown next week perfectly.

Seeing it reminded me of how great a team 16, 17 and 18 were. They just have this inherent cool and laidback attitude to them that does not feel forced at all and makes their interactions quite entertaining. Which just makes me feel sad knowing their impending fate, but oh well.

And yeah, I agree this is Vegeta's low point. In the Freeza saga, he mostly knew to respect the power of his opponents and not blow his out of proportion, as seen against the Ginyu Tokusentai and Freeza, but now that he's become a SSJ, the power clearly went to his head and he sees himself as invincible. Oh well, he's definitely in for a rude awakening next week (too bad he'll end up making the same mistake again against Cell, augh).

And man I must say 17 and 18 were mighty creepy when they woke up and were pretending to follow Gero's orders. That whole lab scene was great stuff.
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Old 2010-07-12, 04:29   Link #2186
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Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
I think 17 was just playing around with him, and it was only there for the comedy of Krillin's reaction. Not sure though.
That's it basically. Just playing around with him.

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Seeing it reminded me of how great a team 16, 17 and 18 were. They just have this inherent cool and laidback attitude to them that does not feel forced at all and makes their interactions quite entertaining. Which just makes me feel sad knowing their impending fate, but oh well.
Indeed, it's what i love about them. Shame we don't get a lot of them together as well, though what we do get seriously makes up for it. Adored the scene in the lab.

Very glad that 17 and 18 are voiced by they original voices, because they fit oh so well. & it's always a treat to hear Itou Miki's devilish voice, especially at the end when 18 was talking to Vegeta. Next weeks episode shall also be quite the treat as well.

It's a shame 16 is still voiced by Midorikawa Hikaru (he also voices Tenshinhan), though it is a voice that fits his calm character perfectly, so at the same time i'm glad.

& that's the good old Kai preview that i know, spoiling everything.
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Old 2010-07-12, 05:41   Link #2187
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That's it basically. Just playing around with him.
Only activated for a short time and 17 already realized Krillin's only there for comic relief .

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Indeed, it's what i love about them. Shame we don't get a lot of them together as well, though what we do get seriously makes up for it. Adored the scene in the lab.

Very glad that 17 and 18 are voiced by they original voices, because they fit oh so well. & it's always a treat to hear Itou Miki's devilish voice, especially at the end when 18 was talking to Vegeta. Next weeks episode shall also be quite the treat as well.

It's a shame 16 is still voiced by Midorikawa Hikaru (he also voices Tenshinhan), though it is a voice that fits his calm character perfectly, so at the same time i'm glad.

& that's the good old Kai preview that i know, spoiling everything.
Gotta love the Kai previews. In a short moment manage to spoil just about every big moment in the next episode. It's actually pretty impressive how they manage to do that.
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Old 2010-07-12, 10:07   Link #2188
Peanutbutter
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I liked how Vegeta called Trunks by his name. I don't recall reading it in my manga.

Calling him Trunks is akin to acknowledging him as his son, which I didn't see it happening until the closing of Cell's arc.
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Old 2010-07-12, 15:05   Link #2189
Vicious108
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Gotta love the Kai previews. In a short moment manage to spoil just about every big moment in the next episode. It's actually pretty impressive how they manage to do that.
Not only that, but they have Vegeta saying in the preview "I cannot be defeated!" while showing 18 breaking his arm. Smart.

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I liked how Vegeta called Trunks by his name. I don't recall reading it in my manga.

Calling him Trunks is akin to acknowledging him as his son, which I didn't see it happening until the closing of Cell's arc.
I really wouldn't call that acknowledging him as his son in the sense that it shows he feels Trunks is worthy to be his child. He just needed to talk to him directly and there were a lot of people around so he had to use his name to refer to him. Maybe if he had said "Hey son, is-" but just calling him Trunks doesn't mean much if you ask me.

Plus we see right after how little Trunks still means to Vegeta at this point when he punches him in the gut. And there're still more beatings to come, poor Trunks.
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Old 2010-07-12, 15:14   Link #2190
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Saw the raw and during the episode, I kept hearing them mentioning 'types' and wondering what they were talking about. Also, it's something thats been bugging me but were 17 & 18 originally human turned android? (Like Gero?) And who exactly is 16 and why was his activation feared by Gero? (And once again, was he originally human or not?)

Stuff that I've always been wondering. I can't recall anything from the dub I saw years ago (also missed the second half and beyond of the Cell arc)
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Old 2010-07-12, 15:27   Link #2191
Vegard Aune
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Also, it's something thats been bugging me but were 17 & 18 originally human turned android? (Like Gero?) And who exactly is 16 and why was his activation feared by Gero? (And once again, was he originally human or not?)
Actually, the dub calling them "androids" is, for the most part, wrong. An android is a robot that looks like a human being, despite being entirely mechanical. #16 and #19 are the only ones that actually fit this definition. #17, #18 and Dr. Gero are cyborgs, normal humans with mechanical enhancements.

As for why Gero was so afraid of #16... Dunno. I'm pretty sure it was never explained.
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Old 2010-07-12, 15:43   Link #2192
Shiroth
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As for why Gero was so afraid of #16... Dunno. I'm pretty sure it was never explained.
Just because it was never explained doesn't mean one can't work it out. For starters, the bomb would have something to do with it.
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Old 2010-07-12, 16:16   Link #2193
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Actually, the dub calling them "androids" is, for the most part, wrong. An android is a robot that looks like a human being, despite being entirely mechanical. #16 and #19 are the only ones that actually fit this definition. #17, #18 and Dr. Gero are cyborgs, normal humans with mechanical enhancements.
Indeed. And even Cell himself has biological components so he too is a cyborg and not an android. Just another example of the dub's faultiness and why I never refer to this arc's enemies in general as androids. Well not that I mind if other people do, since it's just a word and they're probably too used to it by now. Thankfully in my country's dub, as bad as it was, they used the term cyborgs instead.

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As for why Gero was so afraid of #16... Dunno. I'm pretty sure it was never explained.
I just assumed it was because #16 was his strongest creation and thus Gero probably felt he was too powerful to control. Especially with the bomb and all.

Though it seems he understimated his own work since #16 was by far the most subservient and dedicated to his mission of all his artificial humans.
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Old 2010-07-12, 16:48   Link #2194
MushroomSamba
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And yeah, I agree this is Vegeta's low point. In the Freeza saga, he mostly knew to respect the power of his opponents and not blow his out of proportion, as seen against the Ginyu Tokusentai and Freeza, but now that he's become a SSJ, the power clearly went to his head and he sees himself as invincible. Oh well, he's definitely in for a rude awakening next week (too bad he'll end up making the same mistake again against Cell, augh).
The way I see it, all his life he's heard stories about the legendary Super Saiyan, that it's the ultimate warrior and practically "god" status. So when he achieved that level himself, he's got to be thinking he's living up to some prophecy, sorta like a religious nutjob who thinks he's the next messiah or something. In that sense, it's understandable why he thinks everything should revolve around him (and how his attitude changed so much since the Ginyu/Freeza days).
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Old 2010-07-12, 16:51   Link #2195
Shiroth
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^It's why his beat down in the next episode comes at the perfect time. Especially with it being at the hands of a 'female' as well.
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Old 2010-07-12, 21:10   Link #2196
Vicious108
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The way I see it, all his life he's heard stories about the legendary Super Saiyan, that it's the ultimate warrior and practically "god" status. So when he achieved that level himself, he's got to be thinking he's living up to some prophecy, sorta like a religious nutjob who thinks he's the next messiah or something. In that sense, it's understandable why he thinks everything should revolve around him (and how his attitude changed so much since the Ginyu/Freeza days).
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^It's why his beat down in the next episode comes at the perfect time. Especially with it being at the hands of a 'female' as well.
Yeah I understand that, and him acting this way now is fine if he had learned from it, but the problem is that he didn't. He gets humiliated by 18, which should make it obvious enough that even after becoming a SSJ there could still be stronger opponents out there, yet he goes on to think he's invincible again when he's up against Semi-Perfect Cell, thus allowing him to become Perfect and getting ensuingly beaten. That lack of development in him there is a little disappointing.
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Old 2010-07-12, 21:50   Link #2197
LuckyCat
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Yeah I understand that, and him acting this way now is fine if he had learned from it, but the problem is that he didn't. He gets humiliated by 18, which should make it obvious enough that even after becoming a SSJ there could still be stronger opponents out there, yet he goes on to think he's invincible again when he's up against Semi-Perfect Cell, thus allowing him to become Perfect and getting ensuingly beaten. That lack of development in him there is a little disappointing.
Saiyans are all about fighting. Goku is the same way pretty much. If you remember later he actually gives Cell a sensu bean because he thinks it would be a better fight.
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As for why Gero was so afraid of #16... Dunno. I'm pretty sure it was never explained.
Well for one thing he doesn't listen to orders. Rather, he becomes detrimental to Gero's ultimate plan (Cell) and never really fights Goku as designed.
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Old 2010-07-12, 21:53   Link #2198
Vicious108
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Saiyans are all about fighting. Goku is the same way pretty much. If you remember later he actually gives Cell a sensu bean because he thinks it would be a better fight.
The two aren't comparable at all. Goku knew how strong Cell would be after the sensu bean, since he'd fought him at full power before. Vegeta had no way in hell of knowing how strong Cell would get after becoming absorbing 18 yet he never even considered the possibility that his own power wouldn't be enough to handle it.
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Old 2010-07-13, 06:37   Link #2199
Quakis
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Originally Posted by Vegard Aune View Post
Actually, the dub calling them "androids" is, for the most part, wrong. An android is a robot that looks like a human being, despite being entirely mechanical. #16 and #19 are the only ones that actually fit this definition. #17, #18 and Dr. Gero are cyborgs, normal humans with mechanical enhancements.
Cheers for clearing that up.
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Old 2010-07-13, 06:45   Link #2200
SuperKnuckles
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The Girl android beating up on Vegeta had to be one of the most satisfying things in the whole series I can remember. Shame that they don't retain their godly powers thanks to Buu.
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