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Old 2010-07-13, 15:26   Link #3021
Judoh
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Like I already said from episode 1 and on we know that Kyrie and Rosa are buddies. I'm sure they could've had conversation about this before 1986. In fact I'm betting on it.
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Old 2010-07-13, 15:37   Link #3022
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I was surprised by the fact Kyrie had a dark side to her and the fact she was jealous enough to kill Asumu surprised me. Another thing out of all the other surprising things is that how Kannon rescued Battler than... yeah... but there is one thing I don't understand, it's that why was Battler so naive and overconfident? He underestimated the cruelty of Erika (again) and what happened to the elder beato.....
gah i'm so lost and confused....
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Old 2010-07-13, 15:38   Link #3023
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Well, there are basically two theories on that:

1) He is incompetent, and too nice for his own good.

2) He fell for it on purpose for Beato's sake.

As to the elder Beatrice, she, uh... disappears entirely from the narrative. Your guess is as good as mine!
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Old 2010-07-13, 15:42   Link #3024
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well... didn't they say that they had to become one to become the true Beatrice?

I guess they became one...
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Old 2010-07-13, 15:43   Link #3025
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Isn't it... implied that Elder Beatrice had successfully connected with Moetrice in the end scene? From the fact that Beatrice regained her old expression set?

Battler supposedly gave her the tape to make up for the "disadvantage" of her not making a detective proclamation. As it turned out, not a disadvantage at all...

Although it suggests that the best strategy in the game would be to immediately kill everyone before committing suicide, so there's no way for the witch to make any impossible murders :/.
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Old 2010-07-13, 15:48   Link #3026
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Well Battler could've prevented everything by including Erika in this red. Krauss, Rudolf, Hideyoshi, and Gohda were not involved the the murders of the six people

And the Blue Erika gave was basically that after discovering the corpses somebody killed them after breaking the closed room. She never said who did that. So as far as I'm concerned there is no way Battler didn't know Erika could've been one of the people who could do that. So then the only explanation I can think of is that he purposely left Erika's name out of the red. But he wouldn't do that he if he was suspecting a detective's proclamation.
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Old 2010-07-13, 15:52   Link #3027
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He could've just assumed Knox's 7th, forgetting that it wouldn't apply? Or just thought it'd be silly for the protagonist to kill people?
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Old 2010-07-13, 15:56   Link #3028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
Although it suggests that the best strategy in the game would be to immediately kill everyone before committing suicide, so there's no way for the witch to make any impossible murders :/.
But that would be competent...

Speaking of timing, Kyrie, Battler and company.
  • Battler left the family after Rudolf remarried.
  • If he is to have attended the 1980 conference, ("six years ago"), Battler has to have done this after the conference.
  • But for Ange to have full six years of age at the time of the 1986 conference, she needs to have been born before the 1980 conference.

So did Battler attend the 1980 conference or not?...
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Old 2010-07-13, 15:57   Link #3029
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It's out of character for Battler to just assume things like that.
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Old 2010-07-13, 15:59   Link #3030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Well Battler could've prevented everything by including Erika in this red. Krauss, Rudolf, Hideyoshi, and Gohda were not involved the the murders of the six people
Battler was also prepared to name all six people in the cousin's room in red. That would have killed Shkanon for good. Unless the narration was a lie.

Everyone who accepts Shkanon must accept the possibility of Battler essentially lying to himself or he is aware that someone is listening to his thoughts and wants to fool them.

Or is there a better explanation for this?
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Old 2010-07-13, 16:04   Link #3031
Renall
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
well... didn't they say that they had to become one to become the true Beatrice?

I guess they became one...
Well yeah, and that's the most likely explanation. We just don't see that. Kanon and Beato are hanging out as ghosts, Kanon tells her some stuff and rushes off to save Battler for her... and then the next time we see Beatrice she's back to being her old self.

It seems pretty apparent what happened, but it's somewhat unusual that it wasn't shown. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but Big Beato just sort of poofs without so much as a disappearance cutaway.
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Old 2010-07-13, 16:04   Link #3032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
It's out of character for Battler to just assume things like that.
Well, it's a fundamental tenet of the game so far. The detective does his best to investigate the murders and prevent further crimes from occuring. Since 5 games had passed without anything like this happening, he could've just got used to it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
Battler was also prepared to name all six people in the cousin's room in red. That would have killed Shkanon for good. Unless the narration was a lie.

Everyone who accepts Shkanon must accept the possibility of Battler essentially lying to himself or he is aware that someone is listening to his thoughts and wants to fool them.

Or is there a better explanation for this?
But he didn't. He didn't even make any attempt to say this other truth he was apparently considering... nor did it appear in red in his thoughts, as you might expect.

A possible explanation is that his thoughts were written in by Hachijo, who still doesn't know how about the Shkannon thing.

And, however silly the theory I proposed earlier is... I can't think of any other way for Kanon to vanish into thin air.
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Old 2010-07-13, 16:09   Link #3033
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But if the "author" can make that mistake (if it's a mistake and not a lie), how can we be sure they competently wrote the narrative at all? And if they're lying, how can we trust anybody's internal narration?
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Old 2010-07-13, 16:13   Link #3034
Judoh
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Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
The detective does his best to investigate the murders and prevent further crimes from occuring. Since 5 games had passed without anything like this happening, he could've just got used to it...
No it has not. All of the games so far have not used the detective to prevent further crimes from occurring. That has never happened anywhere. Even episode 5 leaves the possibility open for murders to continue.

EDIT: Well you could argue Erika's seals, but that doesn't really prevent murders it just fabricates an alibi where there wasn't one before, and Erika admits that herself.
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Old 2010-07-13, 16:15   Link #3035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
Isn't it... implied that Elder Beatrice had successfully connected with Moetrice in the end scene? From the fact that Beatrice regained her old expression set?
I actually think they weren't supposed to become one in the first place, but would remain as a team forever. Hence the separate existence of Dress-Beato and Suit-Beato in EP2 and EP4. Both Beatos were "reset", so they weren't aware of this.
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Old 2010-07-13, 16:30   Link #3036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
But if the "author" can make that mistake (if it's a mistake and not a lie), how can we be sure they competently wrote the narrative at all? And if they're lying, how can we trust anybody's internal narration?
I don't think we've ever been allowed to trust anyone's internal narration except the GM's anyway... I mean, other internal narrations have referred to Kinzo being alive, after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
No it has not. All of the games so far have not used the detective to prevent further crimes from occurring. That has never happened anywhere. Even episode 5 leaves the possibility open for murders to continue.

EDIT: Well you could argue Erika's seals, but that doesn't really prevent murders it just fabricates an alibi where there wasn't one before, and Erika admits that herself.
I mean... the detective always works against the murderer. So Battler was always determined to stop the murderer from killing any more people (within the game board), even if he never really managed to make a serious attempt to do this.

He could've wrongly assumed that, fundamentally, the detective was opposed to the murderer in this way.

And I thought suit-Beato represented a Beatrice who was actually being observed, or at least who was being claimed to be observed. As in, the "19th guest" who was supposedly in episode 2.

Come to think of it, who the HELL invented this 19th guest? I mean... it must've been on Krauss and Natsuhi's orders, right?
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Old 2010-07-13, 16:40   Link #3037
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In EP2 that's possible, but in EP4, two Beatos weren't necessary, but were shown anyway, and both interacted with Battler.
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Old 2010-07-13, 16:42   Link #3038
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The "19th Guest" does benefit Krauss and Natsuhi in ep2, as it deflects the angle of attack. On the other hand, at some point her identity has to come to light, and at that point it doesn't benefit her at all. Furthermore, if we believe the chapel confrontation happened, she remained commandingly in control of everyone including Krauss. So her position is apparently not greatly subordinate to his at that time.
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I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

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Old 2010-07-13, 16:42   Link #3039
musouka
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Originally Posted by k//eternal View Post
I actually think they weren't supposed to become one in the first place, but would remain as a team forever. Hence the separate existence of Dress-Beato and Suit-Beato in EP2 and EP4. Both Beatos were "reset", so they weren't aware of this.
I don't think they were ever separate. They're like Kanon and Shannon.

Notice Battler never sees or interacts with Sister Beato once, even in scenes she was supposedly in and was never shown leaving. Like the cookie scene. She was there and even complained about having to make cookies for Battler right before Battler showed up. Why would she have to make him cookies in the first place if they were completely separate entities? Nevermind Kumasawa and everyone else acting like Moeto was the only one that made them...
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Old 2010-07-13, 16:47   Link #3040
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That's possible as well; I just don't think they ever were supposed to "unify" in the sense they talk about in EP6. If they were always two sides of the same person, that's acceptable, but in that case I think the original Beato also had these two sides.
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