AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Umineko

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-07-14, 06:38   Link #13841
Azule
Golden Witch
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Future Gadget Lab
Send a message via AIM to Azule Send a message via MSN to Azule Send a message via Skype™ to Azule
Not purposly going off topic, but what will happen come episode 3?

Spoiler:
__________________
A not-so-average Umineko gameboard
Azule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-14, 08:07   Link #13842
rogerpepitone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Send a message via Yahoo to rogerpepitone
There is some in-game support for the idea that actions by one personality are not counted as being done by a different personality. Battler tried to suggest that an alternate personality of Jessica killed Nanjo. Rather than stomp it out in general with a red that applies to any person who potentially has multiple personalities, Beatrice used red that only applied to Jessica in that situation.

For those who don't remember, "Jessie" is the personality that Jessica has at school (from the Tsurupettan scene).

Rules X, Y, and Z are stated as being Beatrice's heart. Beatrice's heart was mentioned as:
1) protecting Jessica at the end of Episode 3
2) being part of the solution to the web of red text
3) being connected to the final riddle of Episode 4 (Rokkenjima Explosion incident)
4) being the key to the logic error in Episode 6 (Shkannon)
rogerpepitone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-14, 08:08   Link #13843
Floofeh
Location: Golden Land
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
I finished EP6 yesterday and it really blew my mind. Unfortunately I lack the detective's wit to figure everything out. I'm really curious as to how everything was done by human hands (god, I suck at closed rooms) so for now I'm rooting with the magic side.

That aside, I really do have a lot of questions after finishing and I was wondering if you would happen to know (possible) answers to them. From what I've read most of you are pretty sharp, so here goes.

I'm sorry if I'm interrupting a discussion or asking double questions. There are over 50 pages about EP6 and speculation about 7, and I tried reading as much as possible, but in the end I gave up so I figured I'd post here and see how it goes.

- How did Kanon manage to escape form the cousin's room to save Battler?

- Who was in the closet? (or was there nobody in the closet? It wasn't really clear to me. Something about a raincoat being there..?)

- If there wasn't anyone in the closet WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?

- How can we explain the sudden death of Kanon in the cousin's room after the magical duel? The duel was filled with magic, so what's the "trick" that goes with it? No way that he was having a literal skullbleed right?

- Is Featherine Augustus Aurora secretly Hanyuu? (didn't she always cry (h)auuuuauuu?)

- Traptwins. Who's the guy here? (if there are 2 genders in the world of umineko... You never know?)

- The new Beatrice (the "chick" that was born in the beginning of the episode) was the one that crashed the wedding? How did she know how to act like this? It seemed very sudden to me... What happened to elder Beatrice?

- Did anyone figure out a legit sin that Battler commited 6 years back? And the whole "no horse, sorry" doesn't fly with me. The theory where he promised Shannon he'd come back and then didn't sounds the most plausible for now, but even that one seems weird.

- What was Amakusa talking about with Okonogi when he was on the phone at the end of the episode? They're going to Rokkenjima, even though they know Kasumi and her little friends are waiting there. Isn't that like suicide?

- At the final Erika vs Battler & Beato showdown they aimed the guns at eachother's head and then Erika mentioned something like "Haha, I was the 18th person!" And then Battler & Beato replying with something like "even if you were to join, the number is still 17!" What was that all about? Did Battler & Beato win? I'm not really trusting this...

- Without love it cannot be seen? I've heard that enough times. How does this relate to the human truth of this game? (if it even does)

- The part where Featherine and Bern drank tea at the end confused me a bit. They were going to do a seventh game (Wright/Dine & "trap"?) but with who? Everything ended with "When the seagulls cry nobody is left alive"

- Last question. Would Ryu07 explain everything at the end like Higurashi? I really hope he does because I'm really not that bright to deny witches completely, but I suspect he won't somehow. He's been trolling his fanbase almost nonstop, so I wouldn't put it past Ryukishi

Ok, sorry for the long story, but I'd really like to hear something replying to anything here.
Floofeh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-14, 08:28   Link #13844
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floofeh View Post
I finished EP6 yesterday and it really blew my mind. Unfortunately I lack the detective's wit to figure everything out. I'm really curious as to how everything was done by human hands (god, I suck at closed rooms) so for now I'm rooting with the magic side.

That aside, I really do have a lot of questions after finishing and I was wondering if you would happen to know (possible) answers to them. From what I've read most of you are pretty sharp, so here goes.

I'm sorry if I'm interrupting a discussion. There are over 50 pages about EP6 and speculation about 7, so I figured I'd post here and see how it goes.
Don't worry nobody has the "wit" to understand "everything". and nobody should be supposed the whole thread before asking questions.


- How did Kanon manage to escape form the cousin's room to save Battler?
Two main theories exist and divide the umineko community:

1) Kanon's real name is Kinzo. Since "Kinzo" was excluded from the "everyone else" then Kanon/Kinzo could be anywhere outside the closed rooms.

2) As a consequence of the shkanon theory, Shannon is Kanon and Shannon was confirmed to be in the next room over. Since the seal of the window could have been broken, Shannon simply escaped from the window, became Kanon, and then rescued Battler.


- Who was in the closet? (or was there nobody in the closet? It wasn't really clear to me. Something about a raincoat being there..?)

Nobody can tell. Maybe there was a dead Kanon body or maybe there was Shannon. But who can say that he/she actually didn't hide under the bed?

- If there wasn't anyone in the closet WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?

Again two theories:

1) Kanon simply died, therefore he "doesn't exist". The "don't exist" for dead people in red was used before, so it's considered valid.

2) As a consequence of the Shkanon theory, Kanon and Shannon are just personalities who share the same body. Therefore simply by the fact that the Kanon personality was suppressed as that moment Kanon ceased to exist.

- How can we explain the sudden death of Kanon in the cousin's room after the magical duel? The duel was filled with magic, so what's the "trick" that goes with it? No way that he was having a literal skullbleed right?

That was a fake scene. It is simply a metaphor.

- Is Featherine Augustus Aurora secretly Hanyuu? (didn't she always cry (h)auuuuauuu?)

Naaa she doesn't even have horns. It's just another of the many characters that resemble Higurashi characters. The connection is clear, as it's clear the connection between lambda and Mayo, however they are different characters.

- Traptwins. Who's the guy here? (if there are 2 genders in the world of umineko... You never know?)

Nobody knows.

- The new Beatrice (the "chick" that was born in the beginning of the episode) was the one that crashed the wedding? How did she know how to act like this? It seemed very sudden to me... What happened to elder Beatrice?

It is assumed that chick Beatrice and Old sis Beatrice became one single person and therefore substantially the same as the Beato we have seen in the first episodes.
The change was sudden, but not more sudden than Battler's epiphany in EP5. She simply remembered everything and understood everything.


- Did anyone figure out a legit sin that Battler commited 6 years back? And the whole "no horse, sorry" doesn't fly with me. The theory where he promised Shannon he'd come back and then didn't sounds the most plausible for now, but even that one seems weird.

That's still our best take at the moment, minus the horse. It is hard to deny that Battler didn't make any promise and didn't break it. There are overwhelming evidences that he did.

- What was Amakusa talking about with Okonogi when he was on the phone at the end of the episode? They're going to Rokkenjima, even though they know Kasumi and her little friends are waiting there. Isn't that like suicide?

No it was all a plan to kill in one shot Kasumi and Ange.
Yeah no kidding, Okonogi wants Ange dead. Amakusa is supposed to kill Ange or let the sumadera kill them, but most people here believe he wouldn't actually do that.

- At the final Erika vs Battler & Beato showdown they aimed the guns at eachother's head and then Erika mentioned something like "Haha, I was the 18th person!" And then Battler & Beato replying with something like "even if you were to join, the number is still 17!" What was that all about? Did Battler & Beato win? I'm not really trusting this...

Battler and Beato did win. But apparently Featherinne will make the game continue somehow. The final riddle is that even including Erika there are 17 people.

So you need to think... who the hell isn't actually there? Again there are two theories:

1) Shannon and Kanon are the same person, that's why they count as one, and the total number including Erika becomes 17

2) Erika doesn't exist. "Erika" merely refers to one of the existing piece in the gameboard that she somehow hijacked and controls.

- Without love it cannot be seen? I've heard that enough times. How does this relate to the human truth of this game? (if it even does)

Nobody knows for sure.

- The part where Featherine and Bern drank tea at the end confused me a bit. They were going to do a seventh game (Wright/Dine & "trap"?) but with who? Everything ended with "When the seagulls cry nobody is left alive"

Simply Featherinne asked Bern to become the Game Master of EP7. Both of them agree on the idea of creating a game that will expose the truth of Beatrice's game. However Bern doesn't promise that it will be an objective vision of the truth. it will be the truth, but the truth seen through her eyes. And Bern doesn't seem to have any good intention. She's probably going to make it look as awful as possible.

- Last question. Would Ryu07 explain everything at the end like Higurashi? I really hope he does because I'm really not that bright to deny witches completely, but I suspect he won't somehow. He's been trolling his fanbase almost nonstop, so I wouldn't put it past Ryukishi

I really hope so. But who can tell?
__________________


Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2010-07-14 at 08:40.
Jan-Poo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-14, 08:45   Link #13845
Sniesk
It's Hammertime!
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Italy (Neaples)
Regarding the game with Bern as the GM, will Featherine play as the human side? I think she said many times that she is only an observer but i don't see how they will get someone else to play. After all the 7th game shouldn't bother Battler or Beato, it's like Bern just got another chess set and started a game on her own...
Sniesk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-14, 08:46   Link #13846
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
What if Featherinne summons someone else to play in the human side for her?

Actually this makes sense... in that case the new character in EP7 would be Featherinne's super detective. A superdetective that can count on Wright and the 20 dine rules...

The only question is... why this superdetective wears the Ushiromiya eagle?
__________________

Jan-Poo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-14, 08:56   Link #13847
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
The only question is... why this superdetective wears the Ushiromiya eagle?
I wonder...
...just who was the head of the family before Kinzo, the one who died in the Great Kanto Earthquake?
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-14, 09:00   Link #13848
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
The only thing we know is that he wasn't closely related to Kinzo.

But as usual I can't see the importance of the minor things you like to speculate upon
__________________

Jan-Poo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-14, 09:10   Link #13849
Leafsnail
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
New Shkannon theory!

Shannon was worried that Battler was, in fact, gay! Therefore, in order to hedge her bets, she decided to create a male personality to get close to him anyway!

...

The only real reason I can think of is that she created him so that Jessica could pretend to have a boyfriend for her school (remember, the stuff at the start of ep2 isn't guarenteed to be the whole truth) and it kinda got out of hand. Although this seems like a ridiculously over the top action.

Alternative stupid ideas:
- Shannon wants to draw 2 paychecks?
- Krauss and Natsuhi want to prove they aren't in financial trouble by showing they're rich enough to have not just one but two klutzy servants?
- It's the prank that Kanon remembers playing with Kinzo! Only it got a bit out of control...
- Shannon always wanted a little brother, so decided to create one inside her mind... and got everyone else on the island to accept it? As a condition for being in on the Kinzo conspiracy or something?
Leafsnail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-14, 09:10   Link #13850
moichispa
Endless witch
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Age: 24
A doubt abut ShaKannon theory in ep 5.

Spoiler for ep5:
__________________
moichispa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-14, 09:14   Link #13851
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
I believe that there must be a reason if they are said to be furniture that were hand-made by Kinzo.

So the reason for their existence must be connected to Kinzo somehow...
__________________

Jan-Poo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-14, 09:20   Link #13852
Leafsnail
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Well, Kanon was supposedly "hired" by Kinzo, right? He could've just thought the idea of pretending to have an extra servant was so inherently hilarious it was worth paying Shannon more.
Leafsnail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-14, 09:20   Link #13853
DgBarca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I believe that there must be a reason if they are said to be furniture that were hand-made by Kinzo.

So the reason for their existence must be connected to Kinzo somehow...
The mystery person in EP7 portrait is Kanon and Shannon Father/Mother, and is also the illegitimate child of Kinzo and Beatrice-2. This person is also the master of the Fukuin house.

But...kanon started to work two years from the incident...it's the time a bit before Kinzo's death ?

Kinzo took a potion to become young again, and here is Kanon. After all, I wouldn't put it past Kinzo *shot* (Ho hi Dlanor, how it's goi...hey, don't play with this sword ? What ? Knox 4th..ahah...aha...HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAA)
DgBarca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-14, 09:21   Link #13854
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Spoiler for Episode 6:
__________________


Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2010-07-16 at 07:10.
Jan-Poo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-14, 09:25   Link #13855
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
DgBarca... unless Rosa totally sucks at guessing the age of a person, that is really hard to believe.
__________________

Jan-Poo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-14, 09:26   Link #13856
Leafsnail
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Kinzo supposedly died one year before the incident, didn't he?
Leafsnail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-14, 09:28   Link #13857
Leafsnail
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Spoiler for ep5:
Leafsnail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-14, 09:28   Link #13858
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
He died in 1985 before the family meeting, so before October 4
__________________

Jan-Poo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-14, 09:45   Link #13859
DgBarca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
He died in 1985 before the family meeting, so before October 4
Could Kinzo in fact died in December 1984 ?

Well I doesn't change my theory :
Kinzo hired Kanon before his death. So the reason from Kanon to come is connected with Kinzo's will or something.
DgBarca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-14, 10:16   Link #13860
LuckySovietStar
Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 22
Quote:
DgBarca... unless Rosa totally sucks at guessing the age of a person
Isn't Erika even better? If I remember correctly (and I probably don't), she makes Kanon "George Tanaka", because they look almost the same age. Which is funny, because George should be ~6 years older.
Unless Kanon is really 19 year old, he was Kinzo's favorite kid from Fukuin house and started working at Rokkenjima only because Goldsmith was sick and unable to leave island anymore and his emo furniture fear of loving someone is here because of seeing Kinzo slowly die. And maybe Kinzo picked him as his successor?...ah, I love epileptic trees.

More serious question: how FFT Team obtained Kinzo's envelope and seal? I mean, if that letter was part of prank, it means either pranksters know about Kinzo's death, or Natsuhi pulled something silly like "Head said that if we are going to protect honor of Ushiromiya family, he is giving us his support in kicking her annoying little ass; these letters." Well. I wouldn't put it past Kinzo, but still...
What if this letter was not from FFT Team, but from ReKiller and ITS A TRAP for Erika? Game might ends before she leaves guest room not because she made delicious mighty game destroying logic error, but simply because she achieved non standard game over in form of her own death. That, or letter is a lie.
LuckySovietStar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 00:45.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.