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Old 2010-07-14, 09:34   Link #8181
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chikorita157 View Post
It's not easy to avoid technology since it's all over the place. I do think that people should not overuse technology and experience the outside world. It's understandable that he is angry about technology, but he shouldn't shun it since there is no avoiding it. People need to use it in moderation and not let it control them.
Again, I think you're misunderstanding Miyazaki's perspective.

From what I understand, his well-documented distaste for technology stems from an apparent belief that it takes away too much of the effort that makes a craft "meaningful", at least to him. I would argue that his colleague, Isao Takahata, shares the same sentiments, based on the themes of his movies (Only Yesterday is a particularly good example).

Part of this belief, I suspect, comes from the esteem with which Japanese regard their phenomenal work ethic. The Japanese work very hard, and they take great pride in doing so. I'm sure we've all seen ready examples of this aspect of their culture in several anime series.

A master of a craft, from sword-makers to painters, is highly regarded for his ability to spot and control the most minute aspects of his profession. This extreme attention to detail is born out of long years of hard, constant practice. Through such accumulated experience, the master gains a certain insight that initiates will not grasp until they, too, go through the backbreaking grind.

And that — the insight that transforms a craft into an art — is what Miyazaki believes to be lost in modern Japan, a society agog with gadgets and conveniences galore.

To him, these conveniences have caused people to take too many things for granted, especially the environment. Everything comes so easily that we no longer care about building for the long term and conserving for the future. This, I believe, is why Miyazaki is so angry with technology. He's not anti-technology per se. Rather, he's angry at the wasteful, destructive culture that arises from the careless use of technology.

At that, incidentally, is also probably why he insists on calling his work animation, rather than anime. To him, I think, anime is associated with mass-produced junk, which rely too much on labour-saving, cost-cutting technology, and not enough on hard-earned technique.

Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2010-07-14 at 09:54.
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Old 2010-07-14, 10:36   Link #8182
Roger Rambo
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The idea of Japan being some kind of tech mecca reminds me of this interesting article I read.

Quote:
Police stations without computers, 30-year-old "on hold" tapes grinding out tinny renditions of Greensleeves, ATMs that close when the bank does, suspect car engineering, and kerosene heaters but no central heating.

A dystopian vision of a nation with technology stuck in an Orwellian time warp? Not at all. These are aspects of contemporary, low-tech Japan that most visitors miss as they look around the hi-tech nation that its government, electronics industry and tourism board are keen to promote.

Tech-savvy internationalised companies such as Panasonic characterise that familiar but smaller segment of Japan Inc. The second much larger, and often subsidised economy, comprises overstaffed family-run firms that are decidedly low-tech and high-priced.

Digital divide

When the business and tech-focused Fast Company magazine released its list of most innovative companies in 2010 only one Japanese company made the selection, and that was a retailer.

So what could account for Japan's lack of international clout tech-wise? Some blame its focus on the domestic market, a low-quality, inefficient workforce and poor working conditions. There is also the digital divide.

Despite the country's showy internet speeds and some of the cheapest broadband around many Japanese are happier doing things the old way.

Figures for internet users in Japan remain around 70% compared to neighbouring South Korea's 82%.

And even among those online there is a divide between those who are dependent on the internet and those who could live without it.

One government poll shows that although 44% of Japanese use the internet at least once or twice a month, the rest responded that they use it "hardly at all" or "not at all".

Considering Japan's top heavy society of over 50s, many of whom have not got to grips with the internet, and who make up 30% of the population and that figure begins to make sense.

New paradigm

Many of Japan's older men - who are those most likely to run a business - have a marked preference to stay offline even in the office, says Tokyo-based entrepreneur Terrie Lloyd.

"There is a clear cut-off for Japanese bosses who know how to use PCs and mobile web-capable devices and those who don't," he said.

"The easiest way to tell is whether they have an e-mail address on the all-important name card. If they're over 50 and don't have an e-mail address, it's a dead giveaway that you either use the phone or forget about contacting them."

Some say this technophobic demographic helps explain why many of Japan's industries do not benefit from IT.

"The world shifted into an entirely new paradigm, not only of wealth creation (which moved away from manufacturing hard goods to software and intellectual property), but also of culture," says Alex Kerr, author of an in-depth analysis of Japan's contemporary ills, Dogs and Demons.

"Oblivious to all this, Japan's government ministries, colleges, and big industry went on doing everything the old time- tested Japanese way."

Digital publishing

This backward approach surprises many people.

Talking in Tokyo at a symposium organised by Wired magazine 15 years ago, Nicholas Negroponte director of the Media Lab at MIT warned Japan against becoming one of the "digital homeless."

The country's refusal to shift to digital economies in some areas means this prophecy, to an extent, has come alarmingly true.

Japan's publishing industry is just one example. For years it has resisted change and only recently moved to accommodate a perceived shift to digitisation and the rise of the e-book.

"It goes without saying that eventually Japan will have to find a way to make peace with digital publishing," says tech analyst Steven Nagata. "But the majors of the publishing industry have made it clear that it will not happen until they have no other choice,"

Elsewhere in Japan the forces of reaction are only now starting to go along with the pivotal changes offered by hi-tech and globalisation.

Efforts have been slow. Japan's mighty mobile phone companies sneered at the iPhone, then denied it would impact on Japan, and only now after its success there are they considering their options.

According to Seed Planning of Tokyo 1.7m iPhones were sold in Japan in 2009, giving it a market share of 15%. In 2008 its share stood at 10%.
Finger pointing

Some critics have accused the country's mandarins of restricting innovation.

"The good days walked out the door and no-one noticed, because we were never told of the danger; rather, missed a golden opportunity to carry the innovation fire and spread it forever," says blogger Hideki Onda.

"Political issues and bureaucracy caused our profit from the 70's to 90's to be spent on a regional and sociopolitical food chain," he said.

"And now, for example, Japan cannot make a sensible decision on the likes of spectrum use freed up by TV going digital. It's a big mess."

Although some ministries were visionary, in implementing projects to deliver the world's first cheap, mass market fibre-optic broadband service for example, many others are seen as antediluvian in their attitudes.

Peep into the offices in Tokyo's administration district and you find out why. Here PCs are rare and work carries on in the slow lane.

"Japanese banks, post offices, government offices, all are staffed with three to five times the employees because they must do every process once on paper and then again on computer," says Taro Hitachi a technical editor and patent reader at Hitachi.

"Do you see the pattern here? Japanese aren't all that happy about spiteful machines and distrust automation."

This technological divide goes hand in hand with Japan's much touted "Galapagos" status. Like the plants and creatures on those islands Japan's tech standards and business practices have developed a unique character incompatible with anything beyond its borders.

Mr Onda thinks this Galapagos approach was an error perpetuated by the civil servants.

"Anything as foreign and revolutionary as Apple's WYSIWYG GUI operating system will never be accepted, even if it was the best. You see Apple had not paid respects to the Japanese bureaucrats," he said.

To illustrate this, Mr Onda relates a story from 1996 when Apple was keen to puts its computers into Japanese schools. The answer from the Japanese education minister at the time was a curt "No thank-you".

A puzzled Michael Spindler (then Apple's CEO) asked his Japanese colleague when they might return to try again.

In response, his colleague said: "When the 60's-era floor indicator above the ministry's elevator door goes digital.
Quote:
Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post
Dancing Auschwitz survivor and family at the death camp sparks outrage

So a man who survived Auschiwtz returned there with his Australian grandkids, and they made a video of them dancing at the place to the tune of "I Will Survive" obviously to symbolise his survival and subsequent descendants. Some however have found it tasteless and offensive.
If this was coming from anybody else I'd be pissed off to.

But I think anybody who came out of their alive has a right to go back and stick to the place. I see it as a form of catharsis.
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Old 2010-07-14, 10:38   Link #8183
SeijiSensei
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Following up on the open-source discussion:

Microsoft Calling. Anyone There?

Quote:
In particular, the Kin debacle is a reflection of Microsoft’s struggle to deliver what the younger generation of technology-obsessed consumers wants. From hand-held products to business software, Microsoft seems behind the times.

Part of its problem may be that its ability to intrigue and attract software developers is also waning, which threatens its ability to steer markets over the long term. When it comes to electronic devices, people writing software have turned their attention to platforms from Apple and Google.

Meanwhile, young technology companies today rely on free, open-source business software rather than Microsoft’s products, so young students, soon to be looking for jobs, have embraced open-source software as well.
I think this quote speaks volumes about Microsoft's complacency:

“We did not get access to kids as they were going through college,” acknowledged Bob Muglia, the president of Microsoft’s business software group, in an interview last year.

"Access?" It's not like they were banned from campuses. Trust me, as I visited half a dozen or more colleges with my daughter this past year, it's still a MS and Apple world on campus. Any questions I asked about support for Linux and open-source at the student level were met with blank stares.
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Old 2010-07-14, 11:41   Link #8184
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
"Access?" It's not like they were banned from campuses. Trust me, as I visited half a dozen or more colleges with my daughter this past year, it's still a MS and Apple world on campus. Any questions I asked about support for Linux and open-source at the student level were met with blank stares.
Even worse, there are still a number of college students who have never heard of Linux.
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Old 2010-07-14, 21:18   Link #8185
chikorita157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Again, I think you're misunderstanding Miyazaki's perspective.

From what I understand, his well-documented distaste for technology stems from an apparent belief that it takes away too much of the effort that makes a craft "meaningful", at least to him. I would argue that his colleague, Isao Takahata, shares the same sentiments, based on the themes of his movies (Only Yesterday is a particularly good example).

Part of this belief, I suspect, comes from the esteem with which Japanese regard their phenomenal work ethic. The Japanese work very hard, and they take great pride in doing so. I'm sure we've all seen ready examples of this aspect of their culture in several anime series.

A master of a craft, from sword-makers to painters, is highly regarded for his ability to spot and control the most minute aspects of his profession. This extreme attention to detail is born out of long years of hard, constant practice. Through such accumulated experience, the master gains a certain insight that initiates will not grasp until they, too, go through the backbreaking grind.

And that — the insight that transforms a craft into an art — is what Miyazaki believes to be lost in modern Japan, a society agog with gadgets and conveniences galore.

To him, these conveniences have caused people to take too many things for granted, especially the environment. Everything comes so easily that we no longer care about building for the long term and conserving for the future. This, I believe, is why Miyazaki is so angry with technology. He's not anti-technology per se. Rather, he's angry at the wasteful, destructive culture that arises from the careless use of technology.

At that, incidentally, is also probably why he insists on calling his work animation, rather than anime. To him, I think, anime is associated with mass-produced junk, which rely too much on labour-saving, cost-cutting technology, and not enough on hard-earned technique.
Good explanation... I do see what he is getting at since majority of Anime these days are produced merely to milk the cash cow... but I have seen Anime that used technology that have great animation and storylines, mainly from Kyoto Animation or even the effort from the Anime no Chikara project. I do think that good anime can be digitally produced just like what Miyazaki produces. Then again, Sturgeon's Law is always in full effect and only like 10% of the Anime produced every season turn out to be successful.

I think Miyazaki's view can apply to anything in life. Take the BP oil spill. BP cut corners when they built a deep water rig and look at the oil spill we have now. If BP didn't cut corners and made sure that the rig is safe, we wouldn't have the oil spill we have now. If these energy companies push for alternative energy or put more effort in safety. In contrast to Miyazaki anger with technology, people are now taking notice and angry at the use of oil. So yeah, the analogy can practically apply to anything in life, not just tech and Anime.

Quote:
"Access?" It's not like they were banned from campuses. Trust me, as I visited half a dozen or more colleges with my daughter this past year, it's still a MS and Apple world on campus. Any questions I asked about support for Linux and open-source at the student level were met with blank stares.
Although my school rarely mentions Linux, it's big in my sister's school (NJIT) and they have computers running Linux and Solaris (that also contains open source software)
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Old 2010-07-14, 21:24   Link #8186
MrTerrorist
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TV networks reject controversial '9/11 mosque' ad

Good job for NBC & CBS for rejecting it. That so call "AD" is just low brow trash and misguided propaganda. Hopefully, Fox and other networks does the same thing.
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Old 2010-07-14, 21:54   Link #8187
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
TV networks reject controversial '9/11 mosque' ad

Good job for NBC & CBS for rejecting it. That so call "AD" is just low brow trash and misguided propaganda. Hopefully, Fox and other networks does the same thing.
errr..... Those are dangerous thoughts because then the distinction between terror and religion is erased. As one of the most diverse city in the world that is home to all form of culture, religion, and ethnicity, those kinds of words in that article will actually fuel the very idea. Bloomberg certainly earns points for being open minded enough to even consider such idea.
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Old 2010-07-14, 22:19   Link #8188
Nosauz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
TV networks reject controversial '9/11 mosque' ad

Good job for NBC & CBS for rejecting it. That so call "AD" is just low brow trash and misguided propaganda. Hopefully, Fox and other networks does the same thing.
I doubt it, Fox and Friends will take this an opportunity to call out Democrats and the "liberal" media for allowing this attack to continue. It's sad how incendiary and how illogical this argument is. The notion that fringe elements represent an entire group yet Tea Partiers/Baggers are unhappy when the media portrays them as racists pricks for those part of the fringe/ or even the majority. The hypocrisy is so blaring that it's hard to take this seriously and the very notion of not allowing freedom of speech and religion is fervently pushed by the christian right just again shows the juxtaposition of those unwilling to tolerate, asking to be tolerated. This ad is nothing more than a message to pray on the weak of mind, and incite idea of national pride, yet eroding the very message this nation was built on, these messages are far more damaging to this republic than a mosque is 2 blocks away from ground zero.

Also I'm pretty sure Beck and Hannity have already derided this mosque.


This the ad that CBS and NBC have chose to not air.
Also another caveat, when stations boycott messages of hate it's silencing free speech, when conservatives do it, it's free market forces.
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Old 2010-07-14, 23:08   Link #8189
cors8
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So can we dismantle all the churches where massacres and other crimes happened in the name of Christianity?

Why limit this crap to Islam? Hallowed ground is hallowed ground no matter what religion, right?
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Old 2010-07-15, 01:18   Link #8190
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by cors8 View Post
So can we dismantle all the churches where massacres and other crimes happened in the name of Christianity?

Why limit this crap to Islam? Hallowed ground is hallowed ground no matter what religion, right?
Though I do not support such crap, I believe that it is a security issue because terrorists can use the mosque to recon the WTO and other places around there to bomb.

It is a safehouse in the middle of enemy territory so to speak. And I doubt that the mosque leaders and owners will allow the CIA / FBI / NSA to even conduct searches.
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Old 2010-07-15, 01:41   Link #8191
Nosauz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Though I do not support such crap, I believe that it is a security issue because terrorists can use the mosque to recon the WTO and other places around there to bomb.

It is a safehouse in the middle of enemy territory so to speak. And I doubt that the mosque leaders and owners will allow the CIA / FBI / NSA to even conduct searches.
sigh... rabble rabble, why don't we just become a police state. seriously all I can do is roll eyes at these type of fears because they are ridiculous and infringe upon the very freedoms that the founding fathers fought for. That's like the stupid Homefront game that says North Korea is going to take over the world in 2025. Just fear mongering to divert people's attention as we slip into a police state which is far more frightening than any sort of terrorist, and if we allow for this ban to occur, the terrorists will have succeed at the cost of our freedoms as people of this nation.
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Old 2010-07-15, 01:47   Link #8192
Nosauz
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
its not about dismantling anything
they want to build a NEW giant mosque near ground zero.
which (regardless to what you feel about the war on terror) is like building a huge swastika statue right next to Auschwitz.

its a structure commemorating the ideology that led to the murder of those people.
which is more then just a little bit in bad taste.
they can, and should, have picked another spot for it.
especially given the historical connotations of what mosque building means.
WOW... I the tea parties are less racist than you are because let's be honest Islam=/=terrorists. Some Terrorists might believe in Islam but to claim anything of the sort is ridiculous. If your going to condemn all Muslims for the sake of safety, there can never be peace in the middle east and for the modern world because you do have to realize that there are a billion muslims, and the notion that they are all terrorists is just ridiculous. Hell I'd be more afraid of those churchs on every corner because for all you know the rapture could happen and the christian militias would impose martial law in attempt to bring heaven to earth.

The correct analogy is putting a German flag at Auschwitz, is similar to building a mosque near/2 blocks away from ground zero.
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Old 2010-07-15, 02:46   Link #8193
Nosauz
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
whats racist about it ?
the people who carried out the 9/11 attacks WERE Islamists
not all muslims are terrorists
but the terrorists who carried out this attack, did it IN THE NAME of an islamic world view
theres being political correct, and then there's just ignoring the facts

there is no reason to build a mosque THERE of all places.
if nothing else, then because its insulting to the victims and their families

and i stand by my Nazi statue analogy
Germany is a country
national socialism was a ideology.
Irrational fear, and willing to sacrifice personal liberties is just the beginning, soon we'll be interning muslims like we did to the Japanese. I guess fear is now the only thing we Americans we can have to look forward to. I mean I'd be more afraid of Chinese spiese operating out of the Chinese Consulate. The notion that the victims are owed by any muslim is stupid, if there is a large population of muslims in New York City near the trade center area why not build a mosque there to service the muslims who need it. This is so similar to the inane and insane fear against gay marriage. I can't believe it's come to point where I have to vehemently defend others rights to believe in the god they choose and to do it in the place they choose. What threat does this mosque pose? Nothing, but irrational fear due to lack of understanding of another culture. In the end people afraid of this mosque are bigots and racists, because this is absolutely not a national security issue, but one based on fear and irrationality.\

Also your analogy is absolutely wrong, but the fact that you don't see it just shows how devoid of cultural understanding you have of Islam, and what separates the radicals and majority of the other muslims that live on this planet.
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Old 2010-07-15, 03:00   Link #8194
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Bloomberg is spot on with going ahead with the Mosque plan.

His progressive common-sense is top notch. He and those anonymous funders are doing us all a favor by planting human shields for New York. Al Qaeda surely aren't interested in harming their brothers right?

People decrying the mosque as an affront to 9/11 victims are only going to give the race carders more ammo. The sun will probably rise over New York after the thing is built. What's one more mosque in the Western Hemisphere anyway? Those things are like Replicators. Not like they bulldozing a church in Saudi Arabia to provide holy material for the ground zero mosque. Though finding one might be tough.
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Old 2010-07-15, 03:06   Link #8195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
question
who are the main victims of islamic suicide terrorism ?
other Muslims
see Iraq and Pakistan for a good example.

the presence of a mosque will not deter them from attacking
Doh, and there I was building my placard saying "Bloomberg for President 2016".
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Old 2010-07-15, 03:06   Link #8196
Nosauz
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
cut the slippery slope argument
not allowing them to build a giant symbol of their religion in a place where thousands of people died at the hands of people who were killing them BECAUSE of those religious tenants does not automatically lead to "we'll be throwing them in camps"

trying to compare it to "gay marriage" is also absurd
how many people were killed by gay marriage advocates ?

belief is a private matter.
you can worship whatever god you want
its when you try to impose those beliefs on the lives of others IN ANY WAY, that its stops being about personal belief
building a giant mosque near a scene of a tragedy is not about personal belief
its about building a giant symbol of the ideology that led to the tragedy
which is at best offensive, and at worse, a declaration of victory
No jingoists and xenophobes see it a declaration of victory because they equate Islam to fringe elements that also believe in Islam. This notion that belief should be restricted to one's self, well you better condone proselytizing that the Catholics constantly do. This idea that Islam called for the 9/11 attacks is completely baseless. What equates Islam to 9/11 other than some of those people believed they would receive 72 virgins if they blow themselves up. That's like saying all Christians want to murder doctors who perform abortions and erecting a church next to an abortion clinic would be proclaiming victory over abortion. You do know that Christians believe that it is their moral obligation to god to convert those who don't believe too, this idea that Islam brought about 9/11 would akin to saying Christianity brought about the Crusade, the Inquisition when in fact it was a small select group of people who were able to just convince nations to follow this backwards logic. Again ISLAM is not terrorism, building a mosque is not a symbol it's a place of worship like a church. It is not some secret covert message to all the Al Qiada members that the U.S. has given up. Actually this is the one time where the slippery slope is indeed valid when you look at warrantless wiretapping, and guantanamo bay.
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Old 2010-07-15, 03:21   Link #8197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
the group behind the building of the mosque is called "the Cordoba Initiative"
Cordoba is the city where the great Mosque in spain was built after the Muslim occupation.
it was built from the rubble of an old Christan church.

they are telling you TO YOUR FACE what building this Mega-Mosque is suppose to mean.
Let's just get this straight right now... The Moors are probably the one group that has ruled Spain in a somewhat sensible manner, unlike the Christians, the Fascists, the Moors were probably the most tolerant group within Spain. Whereas you have Queen Isabella who started the inquisition. Could it possibly be a message that all religions like those that lived in the trading city Cordoba can live together, even though there were non muslims, like jews and christians they all managed to live in some semblance of harmony.

Wow guess what with my limited knowledge of Spanish History I inferred their mission statement... who context is key and to not realize that the Moors as rulers were rulers that were tolerant of other religions is just the lack of understanding typical reactionaries have. As long as people like you exist and they do this world will never see any semblance of peace, and the perpetual wars will continue, if not the Islamists, then Chinese, if not the Chinese then it will be the Africans, and if all else fails we can always hate on the Russians because that's just easy.
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Old 2010-07-15, 03:44   Link #8198
Nosauz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
i don't CARE about what the moors were like
all i care about what Cordoba represents
the first real foothold islam had in its attempted occupation of Europe.
Exactly... of course you wouldn't care because you choose what words mean and what they refer to. To you slavery could very well be referring to the tribulations the Jews suffered under the hands of the Egyptians, but to many Americans it refers to the Middle Passage, the Triangle Trade, Jim Crow and many other things. You see what we are doing here? We are dancing about semantics, which has no value other than creating an information war where facts have little to no value. Your making an emotional appeal where as I'm making appeal to your logical side with real facts and to combat my message of historical context with psychobabble is quite the way to appeal to peoples innate fears of the unknown.

Quote:
the difference between this movement in the middle east an in the west, is that in the middle east the leaders of such movements know what will happen to them if they step out of line too much.
in the west, they need not fear this outcome, because the moment someone DOES stand up and say "your crossing the line" they will immediately be branded as "racist" or "bigoted" by people who are too politically correct to see whats in front of them.
No you are bigot and racist, your comments have clearly painted you as such, your irrational fear, your xenophobia, I mean you are a racist, and any rational person who parses your statement on this forum will see it. You have made little to no justification how this could be a national security threat because you know that your fear is based on logical fallacies that you have convinced yourself are true.

Quote:
do you think that this Mega-Mosque at ground-zero stunt would fly in Russia ?
So we are going to play, the Russians wouldn't do it so we shouldn't, the Russians also shipped political dissidents to Siberia with ease, so I guess we should to. I for one believe that America is a beacon of Hope, a place where others aspire to be like us, and although we have somewhat lost our way I believe that we won the Cold War not through the Arms race but the fact that Soviets were living in abject poverty watching Americans enjoy the luxuries of the modern era while they sacrificed their butter for their nation's arms with nothing to show for it. If you talk to Russians now, none will ever want to return to the days of old, that's how powerful the message of freedom, possibility was.

P.S. I love how you claim that truth is more important to you yet you seem to shy so far away from it.
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Old 2010-07-15, 03:59   Link #8199
Nosauz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
just proving my point
any and all criticism is automatically branded racist.

which is beyond ironic, when you remember that NOT criticizing people for horrible behavior (honor killing, female genital mutilation, suicide terrorism) is ALSO racist if the reason why you don't condamn it is because the people who commit this actions are from a different race of ethnic group.
That's stupid, because Honor Killings, female genital mutilation/circumcision, suicide bombers are morally deplorable but building a house of Worship is not. Treating women like objects is wrong, but building a house of worship is not. The notion that because you believe people have a right to express themselves believe in what they want, that you suddenly believe they are not obligated to the morals that we as a society establish is just asinine. This is why reason is required in these situations, it's not a zero-sum game that you make it out to be. That's the problem with the world today, your either one of them or your one of us, that's not how people are, we are unique and we can't possibly agree on everything, much like the political scene in America, either your a republican or a democrat, there is no middle any more.
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Old 2010-07-15, 04:15   Link #8200
Irenicus
Le fou, c'est moi
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
the group behind the building of the mosque is called "the Cordoba Initiative"

...

they are telling you TO YOUR FACE what building this Mega-Mosque is suppose to mean.
Indeed, how interesting. They're trying to offer a very nice message to the city of New York then, since Cordoba at its height matched Constantinople and Baghdad in splendour as a tolerant, cosmopolitan center of learning, culture, and economic activity -- a Medieval NYC if you will. Even now it retains some of the splendid architectures that survived the Spanish Reconquista and remains an asset to the Spanish nation both economically as a tourist spot and culturally as a rich heritage site.

All the more power to them I suppose, though I hope they choose a good, experimental architect. NYC has plenty of cool landmarks already but it never hurts to have more.
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