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View Poll Results: Your favorite character tied with discussion
Tohsaka Rin 104 24.41%
Matou Sakura 20 4.69%
Emiya Shirou 18 4.23%
Ilyasviel "Ilya" von Einzbern 37 8.69%
Saber 153 35.92%
Rider 23 5.40%
Lancer 4 0.94%
Archer 53 12.44%
Caster 11 2.58%
Berserker 3 0.70%
Voters: 426. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-10-24, 20:10   Link #281
LostHanyou
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Ugh, why is Sakura tied with Shirou?

If I knew Shirou was losing so badly I might have voted for him instead of Illya...
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Old 2009-10-26, 16:37   Link #282
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Old 2010-03-10, 21:10   Link #283
Cherry_Lover
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Originally Posted by LostHanyou View Post
Ugh, why is Sakura tied with Shirou?
You know, I found myself asking the same question. So, I rectified it.

By voting for Sakura, since she should be miles ahead
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Old 2010-03-11, 12:13   Link #284
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I agree, that just shows how bad the anime shafted her character. And I cant understand why so many hate her and HF both is awsome.
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Old 2010-03-11, 12:27   Link #285
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Well, to be fair, it's not really the anime's fault, as such.

There's no real way to include her true nature and situation without going through a decent chunk of HF, and that pretty much excludes the other two routes.

In the anime, she's only a minor character, really, which is presumably why she does so badly in polls amongst anime fans.
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Old 2010-03-11, 12:42   Link #286
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You are probably right, but Sakura generally is disliked by game fans too.
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Old 2010-03-11, 14:29   Link #287
Cherry_Lover
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Originally Posted by HanyuuChan View Post
You are probably right, but Sakura generally is disliked by game fans too.
Actually, she isn't. She's 'disliked' by 4chan trolls, because she's an easy target.

On Beast's Lair, where there are very few, if any, people who don't know about the game, she's not all that unpopular (although she most certainly does have her detractors). It's just that her detractors are very loud (as are her defenders), so it tends to come up more often, and make her seem more unpopular than she really is.
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Old 2010-03-11, 15:11   Link #288
Keroko
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You are probably right, but Sakura generally is disliked by game fans too.
Ehh, I don't dislike Sakura, but she is my least favorite character. Mostly a matter of personal taste, since I like strong girls. Fate and UBW had female leads that were on the frontline, but HF was pretty much playing the 'pity poor Sakura' card for the majority of the route, which made most of the route a drag to get through.

For me, it's mostly a decision between Saber and Rin. Both have their good and bad points in terms of character, so they're pretty much equal to me. Saber wins in the end though, for one simple reason:

Plate armor and a bastard sword.
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Old 2010-03-11, 15:51   Link #289
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Ehh, I don't dislike Sakura, but she is my least favorite character. Mostly a matter of personal taste, since I like strong girls.
Actually, Sakura is the strongest of the lot, mentally at least.

Spoiler:


Quote:
Fate and UBW had female leads that were on the frontline, but HF was pretty much playing the 'pity poor Sakura' card for the majority of the route, which made most of the route a drag to get through.
Yes, it was, but it's not her fault.
Spoiler:
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Old 2010-03-11, 15:57   Link #290
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I never said it was Sakura's fault. It is, however, the main reason I don't like her as much. If HF had been Sakura taking Rider back from Shinji and fighting side by side with Shirou, I would have liked her a lot more. Instead, she was the sickly character that the brave hero had to take care off. Not nearly as interesting as the strong and brave Saber, or the quick minded mage Rin.
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Old 2010-03-11, 16:39   Link #291
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But, HF wouldn't have worked if Sakura had done that. And, indeed, if Sakura wanted to do that, she would have done it in the first place (never giving Rider to him). The reason Sakura didn't fight in the war is because Zouken would invariably force her to fight for his wish, even if that meant trampling all over Shirou's. So, she had the strength to refuse him, fully expecting the most horrific punishment possible, because she knew that to fight would inevitably result in her hurting Shirou.

When she actually can fight for Shirou's benefit, she shows that she's perfectly capable of it, for example when she sends Rider to fight True Assassin at the temple (bearing in mind that TA is Zouken's servant, so she probably expected to be severely punished for that), and when Rin threatens to kill her and Shirou (and Sakura tells Rin in no uncertain terms that she'll fight her).

I'm not generally fond of weak 'damsel in distress' types either, but Sakura isn't one. She lacks the power to fight Zouken, and she, like Shirou, lacks any real sense of self, and thus is quite happy to suffer in order to protect Shirou. She doesn't fight for herself because she knows it will mean hurting others. So, she takes all the pain and torture without a complaint, not because she's too weak to complain, but because she's strong enough and selfless enough to avoid dragging the people she loves into her hellish life.

If Sakura had taken Rider back and fought alongside Shirou, I'd have just been asking "why didn't she do that in the first place?".

The simple answer is that she couldn't. She could only ever fight for herself, because Zouken wouldn't let her do otherwise (well, she would be fighting for him, but she'd likely benefit if she won, because he'd probably let her go if she delivered the Grail to him). Since she had no wish to fight for herself (especially if it meant hurting Shirou), she therefore chose not to fight at all. It's not that she's too weak to fight, it's that she's strong enough and smart enough to know that she can't fight without hurting Shirou.
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Old 2010-03-11, 17:04   Link #292
Keroko
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I'm not generally fond of weak 'damsel in distress' types either, but Sakura isn't one.
Begging the general's pardon, but the entire route was all about saving Sakura. That pretty much defines a damsel in distress.

That said, I realize the story of HF wouldn't have worked if Sakura had given Shinji the finger, but that's the thing: I didn't like HF that much either. Neither the route nor it's lead had much of an interest to me. You can argue how much it makes sense until the sun stops rising, but you're preaching to the choir. I know it makes sense, I just don't like the story. Nor Sakura's role in it.
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Old 2010-03-11, 17:24   Link #293
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Sakura needs help, yeah, but she's not just some weak damsel in distress. She's an abused child who was put in a position (thanks to Zouken's worms) where she simply can't fight back, however much she wants to do so.

Blaming her for that or disliking her for that is very unfair. It's not her fault that her father was a moron who couldn't be bothered to do his research before giving his daughter away, or that her adoptive grandfather was a complete monster. Plus, Rin is in no way stronger than Sakura. and nor is Saber braver. Sakura has far more bravery than Saber does, and far more mental strength than Rin does. Plus, she actually becomes the most powerful magus in the whole game, at the end of HF.

The problem is that you're only looking on the surface, and ignoring the true story. Sakura isn't just a passive damsel in distress, waiting for her hero to come and save her. She spends the first half of the route trying to prevent him from doing so, whilst making every effort to protect him (like sending Rider against True Assassin), and in the second half of the route, none of them do anything particularly useful. She is no less proactive in fighting Zouken's control of her than Rin or Shirou are, really (in that they all do nothing of any use), and she spends the whole time fighting against Angra Mainyu's control of her body. Just because she can't go out and beat up the enemy like Rin or Saber can, that doesn't make her weak.

I assume that if your girlfriend/mother/daughter gets ill and needs you to look after them that you'll then decide that they're also some weak 'damsel in distress' and decide that you don't like them any more. Sakura proves conclusively that she's not weak. Every time she can fight, she does. It's just that there's not much she can do, through absolutely no fault of her own.
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Old 2010-03-11, 17:35   Link #294
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover View Post
Sakura needs help, yeah, but she's not just some weak damsel in distress. She's an abused child who was put in a position (thanks to Zouken's worms) where she simply can't fight back, however much she wants to do so.
Again, that pretty much defines a damsel in distress. Not all damsels have to be weak, they just have to be in a situation where they need to be saved. Sakura may have been strong if not for Zouken, she may not even want to be saved, but the point is that she does need to be saved. The entire route revolves around saving Sakura. That makes her a damsel in distress.

I never claimed it was fair. I never claimed it was a 'right reason' for not liking Sakura as much. It is, however, the main reason I don't like her as much as I do Saber or Rin.

Oh, and please don't compare my dislike for a fictional character to my real life relatives in an attempt to make things personal. That's just pathetic and insulting.
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Old 2010-03-11, 17:52   Link #295
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Oh, and please don't compare my dislike for a fictional character to my real life relatives in an attempt to make things personal. That's just pathetic and insulting.
For whom one must wonder though...
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Old 2010-03-11, 18:11   Link #296
Cherry_Lover
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Again, that pretty much defines a damsel in distress. Not all damsels have to be weak, they just have to be in a situation where they need to be saved. Sakura may have been strong if not for Zouken, she may not even want to be saved, but the point is that she does need to be saved. The entire route revolves around saving Sakura. That makes her a damsel in distress.
So you don't like Rin, then, since she was in the same position in her route? Or Saber, since she needed Shirou to save her repeatedly in Fate?

All three girls are 'damsels in distress' at some point in their routes, and Shirou has to save them. True, Sakura has it worse (like you said, it's most of the route), but they all get it, so you should hate all of them. And don't say "but Sakura never fights", because she does. She fights to help Shirou. It's just that her battle is a mental one more than a physical one. Just because her entire life isn't based around killing people like Saber's was, that doesn't mean that she's somehow a worthless person who deserves to be scorned.

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I never claimed it was fair. I never claimed it was a 'right reason' for not liking Sakura as much. It is, however, the main reason I don't like her as much as I do Saber or Rin.
Well, fair enough. I still don't see why you have such a problem with people needing help sometimes, though. No-one can go through life without getting help from other people sometimes, and no-one can always stand up for themselves, especially a child. Your position just doesn't make any sense.

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Oh, and please don't compare my dislike for a fictional character to my real life relatives in an attempt to make things personal. That's just pathetic and insulting.
I wasn't attempting to make things personal, I was using an example....

The point is that she's not always like that, any more than a sick person is. So, it's not fair to dislike her just because she happens to be ill during her route.
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Old 2010-03-11, 18:28   Link #297
Keroko
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So you don't like Rin, then, since she was in the same position in her route? Or Saber, since she needed Shirou to save her repeatedly in Fate?

All three girls are 'damsels in distress' at some point in their routes, and Shirou has to save them. True, Sakura has it worse (like you said, it's most of the route), but they all get it, so you should hate all of them. And don't say "but Sakura never fights", because she does. She fights to help Shirou. It's just that her battle is a mental one more than a physical one. Just because her entire life isn't based around killing people like Saber's was, that doesn't mean that she's somehow a worthless person who deserves to be scorned.
The difference is that their damsel moment was momentarily, not the focus of the entire story. That makes all the difference to me.

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Well, fair enough. I still don't see why you have such a problem with people needing help sometimes, though. No-one can go through life without getting help from other people sometimes, and no-one can always stand up for themselves, especially a child. Your position just doesn't make any sense.
Ahh, you see, I don't have 'such a problem' with people needing help. That's just you blowing things far out of proportion. As I said in the post that started all this:

"Ehh, I don't dislike Sakura, but she is my least favorite character. Mostly a matter of personal taste, since I like strong girls."

I don't hate Sakura, I just prefer Saber and Rin because they are the 'action girls' of their routes. I prefer lead girls that do the ass kicking.

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I wasn't attempting to make things personal, I was using an example....
There is a vast difference between looking at a real person and looking at a character in a story. If Sakura was a real life person that I knew, then I wouldn't even bother to do 'favorite rankings' at all.

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The point is that she's not always like that, any more than a sick person is. So, it's not fair to dislike her just because she happens to be ill during her route.
Perhaps Hollow/Ataraxia may up her place in my rankings once it is translated then. I haven't really seen what a healthy, sane Sakura can do.

Random sidenote: Evil Sakura was awesome.
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Old 2010-03-11, 18:41   Link #298
Cherry_Lover
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Ahh, you see, I don't have 'such a problem' with people needing help. That's just you blowing things far out of proportion. As I said in the post that started all this:

"Ehh, I don't dislike Sakura, but she is my least favorite character. Mostly a matter of personal taste, since I like strong girls."
The thing is, Sakura is strong. She's just in a really bad position, and thus unable to fight. That's what I was objecting to, and then it kind of blew up from there....

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There is a vast difference between looking at a real person and looking at a character in a story.
Why? The same logic applies to either. If you don't like someone's personality as a character in a story, surely you'd dislike their personality just as much if you met them in real life.

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Perhaps Hollow/Ataraxia may up her place in my rankings once it is translated then. I haven't really seen what a healthy, sane Sakura can do.
Possibly. I still don't think she fights as much as Rin or Saber, because she's not as powerful, but she certainly does get involved in some of the battles.

Honestly, I prefer her to be able to fight, but I don't like people holding it against her that she's unable to do so in her route, through no fault of her own.

Sakura's character type (or, at least, the one that she displays on the surface) isn't one I would normally like (I never particularly liked her prior to HF). I also prefer strong women, not weak-willed ones who just sit around waiting for the bad guy to capture them.

But, because of what she's been through and how well she's survived it, and because of her mental strength and general sweetness and kindness, I found myself really caring about her, and wanting her to get a happy ending. I just can't see how someone can not like her just because she's unable to fight, because in her case it's not a sign of weakness, in any way. She's stronger than Rin and Saber put together, but her circumstances make it impossible for her to fight without harming the people she cares about, so she chooses not to fight.

I can understand disliking someone, and thinking they're weak, if they simply can't be bothered to fight, or are too cowardly to fight, but Sakura makes an active decision not to fight in order to keep Shirou safe. I don't see how you can consider that to be a weakness. In her case, choosing to fight (like she does as Dark Sakura) and choosing to follow Zouken's orders to gain her freedom is a sign of weakness, not declining to do so.

But, I guess that is your personal opinion, in the end.

Quote:
Random sidenote: Evil Sakura was awesome.
I had a feeling you might say that....

Dark Sakura is actually weaker than normal Sakura, mentally. It's Sakura when she finally loses the fight against her possession by Angra Mainyu, and gives in to her evil side. I don't really see what's likeable about her, other than that she has moderately cool powers.

Last edited by Cherry_Lover; 2010-03-11 at 18:54.
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Old 2010-03-11, 19:01   Link #299
Keroko
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The thing is, Sakura is strong. She's just in a really bad position, and thus unable to fight. That's what I was objecting to, and then it kind of blew up from there....
I should rephrase then, I prefer girls who do the fighting.

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Why? The same logic applies to either. If you don't like someone's personality as a character in a story, surely you'd dislike their personality just as much if you met them in real life.
No, because a story is a story, and life is life. By your logic, nobody can like the villains of a story, because liking them would mean you approve and enjoy whatever evils they committed.

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Possibly. I still don't think she fights as much as Rin or Saber, because she's still not as powerful, but she certainly does get involved in some of the battles. Honestly, I prefer her to be able to fight, but I don't like people holding it against her that she's unable to do so in her route, through no fault of her own.
You may not like it, but that is how the story portrays her. And as such, it is a factor in the opinion people form of her. It's quite simple, what I liked about Saber and Rin was that they kicked as much ass as the hero in their stories. Sakura lacked that. Ergo, I don't like Sakura as much. That she could have done so is irrelevant, it didn't happen in her story, so it becomes a non-factor.

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Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover View Post
Sakura's character type (or, at least, the one that she displays on the surface) isn't one I would normally like (I never particularly liked her prior to HF). I also prefer strong women, not weak-willed ones who just sit around waiting for the bad guy to capture them.

But, because of what she's been through and how well she's survived it, and because of her mental strength and general sweetness and kindness, I found myself really caring about her, and wanting her to get a happy ending. I just can't see how someone can not like her just because she's unable to fight, because in her case it's not a sign of weakness, in any way. She's stronger than Rin and Saber put together, but her circumstances make it impossible for her to fight without harming the people she cares about, so she chooses not to fight.
And that is an entirely different factor, unique to Sakura, that her fans like. Which is great, make no mistake. There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking that part of Sakura.

It's just the type of story that doesn't really interest me. Long, drawn out drama sequences and the like. There is no argument, there is no justification that makes what I say 'right', it's just my opinion. Like if I'd say I don't like horror movies, or cheese.

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I can understand disliking someone, and thinking they're weak, if they simply can't be bothered to fight, or are too cowardly to fight, but Sakura makes an active decision not to fight in order to keep Shirou safe. I don't see how you can consider that to be a weakness.
Here you're running off on your own tangent again and making wild accusations. I have never called that part of Sakura a weakness, I merely called it a part I didn't like.

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I had a feeling you might say that....

Dark Sakura is actually weaker than normal Sakura, mentally. It's Sakura when she finally loses the fight against her possession by Angra Mainyu, and gives in to her evil side. I don't really see what's likeable about her, other than that she has moderately cool powers.
I don't care that she's weaker statistically, she actually did some ass-kicking. Like I said, I like girls who do the fighting, and Dark Sakura definitely did some fighting.
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Old 2010-07-15, 11:26   Link #300
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I stand with Keroko on every point he brought up.
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