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Old 2010-07-19, 12:47   Link #61
Darknemo2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Therefore, she is playing two roles: The role of Ayatsuji the honor student, and the role of Black Ayatsuji the demon, to protect herself. The "true" Ayatsuji is a deeply scared and desperately lonely girl who is suffering under this charade and would love to end it, but who keeps on playing her other forms because she doesn't know what else to do.
When you think about it isnt Ayatsuji very similar to Sohryu Asuka Langley from the Sadamoto's manga interpretation of evangelion?

Asuka in there also puts a perfect school idol and perfect Eva pilot mask, but has her dar angry self to protect when people come too close to her walls of Jericho. Just to protect her fragile lonely self.

And when her Jericho wall crumbles she becomes suicidal.

Wouldnt that make Ayatsuji very close to a tsundere like evangelion Asuka? Of course not a Type A, but a Type B or Type C tsundere.

I do disagree that you call Cat Ayatsuji a fake - I think it is not a fake but actually part of her true self, just that this part still has something to hide behind her teasing because she cannot express it normally, Like Horo from Spice and Wolf or the aforementioned Asuka. Or in fact all the tsundere's that use teasing approach like Sheryl. They are not close minded like Louise type tsundere, in fact one could say that they are showing their love rather openly but at the same time this love is not bare - it is still carrying a hard armor around - particularly the teasing because then the object of her affections does not know if her teasing is the sign of honest love or just playing pranks on him.

Such types is harder to make completely honest than the Louise types (Type A) tsundere's.

Last edited by Darknemo2000; 2010-07-19 at 13:00.
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Old 2010-07-19, 16:23   Link #62
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(I always considered the EVA ending extremely pretentious, so I'm not too familiar with it anymore... therefore I'll have to skip over the Asuka comparison)

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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
I do disagree that you call Cat Ayatsuji a fake - I think it is not a fake but actually part of her true self, just that this part still has something to hide behind her teasing because she cannot express it normally, Like Horo from Spice and Wolf or the aforementioned Asuka. Or in fact all the tsundere's that use teasing approach like Sheryl.
Cat Ayatsuji is exuding a very high degree of confidence, but she doesn't really feel so self-assured. It's not genuine yet. Maybe "fake" isn't the best word I could pick for that...

I do think that her teasing, flirting and the other forms of her sweet-and-sour treatment are compatible with her personality. I think it's the "goal" form of hers, the character she strives to become. But until she has dealt with her "inner Ayatsuji" problems (4), the Cat hasn't fully taken over. She isn't there yet. Once again she's merely _pretending_ to be like this yet.

That's what I was trying to express.
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Old 2010-07-19, 16:41   Link #63
Darknemo2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Cat Ayatsuji is exuding a very high degree of confidence, but she doesn't really feel so self-assured. It's not genuine yet. Maybe "fake" isn't the best word I could pick for that...
I have to disagree with you to an extent. I think she like Asuka from evangelion is confident, but this confidence comes only when the sexual attraction is included (meaning physical attraction, physical teasing), she, just like the redhead from evangelion, looses all her confidence when it comes to love as an opposed to sexual attraction but it doesn't make her Cat Personality fake, because cat Personality only touches the sexual attraction which is much safer ground than actual love.

And you should try Eva. Pretentious or not they really hit the nail regarding the characters. Too bad that rebuild lost that.
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Old 2010-07-25, 18:09   Link #64
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Chapter 12 scanlated. And this is what I call criminally cute. Having a control type like Ayatsuji freak out at being seen unprepared feels strangely moelicious!
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Old 2010-07-25, 23:06   Link #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Chapter 12 scanlated. And this is what I call criminally cute. Having a control type like Ayatsuji freak out at being seen unprepared feels strangely moelicious!
No wonder Junichi wanted to taste her lips before she even wakes up.
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Old 2010-07-25, 23:41   Link #66
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I guess I'm the only one disappointed. It wasn't the story's fault though as it was a nice chapter. Aya was def cute, but moe isn't that impressive to me. Well, maybe in some instances it is, but not here. I was hoping that Aya had some mental disorder, but its' the same ol' "have a dark side to relieve stress" bit I've seen over and over. Seeing her unpredictable personality in general is what really attracted me to her in the first place. This chapter has none of that unpredictability that truly makes her char dynamic to me. Hopefully she'll get back to business next chapter.
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Old 2010-07-26, 02:06   Link #67
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Ayatsuji was pretty cute this chapter. If it weren't for her psycho mode I would actually quite like her.
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Old 2010-07-26, 03:28   Link #68
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I honestly can't wait for her arc in the anime, I just hope they don't spoil the surprise in any of the other arcs but I don't think they will.

She was amazingly cute in this chapter, really curious about what will happen when she goes back to school.
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Old 2010-07-26, 05:10   Link #69
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Originally Posted by frubam View Post
I guess I'm the only one disappointed. It wasn't the story's fault though as it was a nice chapter. Aya was def cute, but moe isn't that impressive to me. Well, maybe in some instances it is, but not here. I was hoping that Aya had some mental disorder, but its' the same ol' "have a dark side to relieve stress" bit I've seen over and over. Seeing her unpredictable personality in general is what really attracted me to her in the first place. This chapter has none of that unpredictability that truly makes her char dynamic to me. Hopefully she'll get back to business next chapter.
Does she really need to have a brain damage to be interesting? ^_^;

I for once _was_ surprised by her extreme reaction, at least at first. And I think that a girl that is fundamentally sane if a bit warped is much more interesting than a mental disorder patient, because with a bit of care she can be "healed" and dealt with. A clinical disorder would be much more of a hurdle and most likely out of Junichi's reach.

What intrigues me most about Ayatsuji is how she's juggling with various personality-masks in various situations, without making it clear what's REALLY making her tick (that's what causes her to feel "unpredictable"). And here, chapter 12 is important because she was totally losing it when Junichi was catching her unprepared (and so, without her masks). However, she soon learned that IT DID NOT MATTER TO HIM, and if anything, that he found her cute anyway (something which he never told her before!)

So, I'm _really_ curious how this will play out. At the moment, Junichi is nicely building bridges to her. Letsee if Ayatsuji will actually learn to walk across them, or if Junichi will eventually have to forcibly drag her
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Old 2010-07-29, 16:44   Link #70
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
O_o;

Characterizing Ayatsuji is exceptionally hard. She is very multifaceted, and we only know incomplete bits of her backstory, which is making things very difficult. Then again, that's why I'm more interested in her story than in the story of any other girl so far.

Okay, so here's my take. Disclaimer: I don't know her from the game, my only source of information are 11 scanlated and 1 (chinese) raw chapter. Alot of what I'm going to write is mere conjecture and "gut feeling". Whoever knows the game should please keep quiet or make an extra effort not to spoil, please.

Executive Summary: Manga and some people have called Ayatsuji two-faced. I think that's wrong. She wears at least three masks, and her "true" face has barely surfaced yet. The "true" Ayatsuji is very smart, but below genius-level. She has a considerable amount of empathy, and she can "read" other people and their dispositions very well, but she is suffering under a crippled social life. Her achilles heel is that she has led a terribly lonely life and is nearly completely isolated, in school and in her family. Therefore, she is playing two roles: The role of Ayatsuji the honor student, and the role of Black Ayatsuji the demon, to protect herself. The "true" Ayatsuji is a deeply scared and desperately lonely girl who is suffering under this charade and would love to end it, but who keeps on playing her other forms because she doesn't know what else to do. My gut feeling is that if she were to open up to Junichi to be betrayed by him later, she would rather become suicidal than vindictive towards Junichi. (Would be interesting to learn about the bad end of her path - if my hunch is right, it should be terribly tragic).


1) Ayatsuji the Honor Student is fake.

That's no big insight, we could see that directly. It's notable that she's wearing this mask perfectly, so she has all the social skills she'd need for healthy relationships. However, she obviously has no friends at all, and even worse: She obviously considers this form of self-inflicted isolation as "normal".

I have the strong suspicion that "Honor Student" Ayatsuji is a creation of her family's expectations of her: Probably her older sister (who outwardly seemed to be kind to her) is extremely successful and the family's pride, and Ayatsuji was neglected. She was forced to follow in her great older sister's footsteps, but didn't receive the same amout of love and attention, leading to a lingering resentment towards her. I believe this is why Ayatsuji doesn't want Junichi to talk to/about her: Junichi is HERS. She doesn't want to have to share his attention with her sister, too.

2) Black Ayatsuji the demon is fake, too.

How do we know? She fainted after she summoned Black Ayatsuji against the three bitches. Doing so requires her to exert energy. This isn't the way she really is, it's a defensive act she puts on when she has to. Against Junichi, she had to summon Black Ayatsuji to prevent her secret from being unmasked. She feels that if someone was able to see the "true" Ayatsuji, she couldn't go on, because it would be too embarrassing (I suspect that the "precious diary" is somehow detailing the "true", hidden Ayatsuji, so reading it = being unmasked = too embarrassing = catastrophe).

3) "Cat" Ayatsuji is getting closer to the truth, but is still also fake

With "Cat" Ayatsuji I describe the later flirty-teasy-playful Ayatsuji that we see during their "dating" chapters. This is her "rebel" face, when she is liberated from playing the honor student. Here, she's playful, teasy, a bit mean sometimes, dons her "perfect face" to mooch off extra meropan off a street vendor... gets irritated, shows her feelings, and likes to kiss her boyfriend. This is how she "should" be, how she "wants" to be, but it's still based on the assumption that she has Junichi under her control, bound by their sealed "contract". This is why she dares showing this "more genuine" side to him (and him only). It's not natural yet.

4) "Inner" Ayatsuji. What's really making her tick.

In her inner core, Ayatsuji is suffering from terrible loneliness. We can see this much in her tearful outbursts and her very truthful self-analysis in which she admits that she's at the same time very happy to have him - and be (3) - and scared of losing him, and with him the (3) life which she enjoys so much. It seems that her past must have been pretty traumatic, otherwise you don't isolate yourself so completely. Simply put, this girl needs a hug. Badly. She needs someone she can learn to rely on, someone to support her, and to take away the loneliness. So that she can stop going through the motions (playing the honor student) and concentrate on synchronizing who she is with who she wants to be in real life.

She is extremely terrified that other people might find out how she really is, to look behind her masks. I don't know why, hopefully the story will touch down on it later. With a bit of luck, Junichi will demonstrate to her that one can see her issues and STILL love her. That she could be accepted for who she truly is instead of accepting the person she merely PRETENDS to be. At the same time, he is taking on a biiiig responsibility. Should he forsake Ayatsuji after she decides to put some trust in him, the damage would be immense. I wouldn't be surprised if her bad ending culminated in her suicide.

tl;dr version: Ayatsuji needs a big big hug. Long, too. Once she gets into her head that people might learn to accept or even love her cat form (3), she might be able to release it permanently and get rid of the demons which haunt her current form (4). So Junichi, help her through her crises and give her alot of skinship. Help her recheck her priorities so that she can determine what's REALLY important to her, who she REALLY wants to be and what she REALLY wants to do. If you do that, you'll have saved a soul. And if you're lucky enough that Ayatsuji still wants you around after she migrated from (4) to (3), and you still like her, feel lucky to bag a very very interesting (and IMHO also exceptionally cute) GF.
I've had many of the same thoughts too, and the Asuka comparison seems pretty apt as well (although Ayatsuji is in a better position mentally still). All of these points cover why I really like Ayatsuji just a bit more that Morishima and ahead of all the other girls in the series, and Precious Diary's presentation of her IMO is a more touching and honest portrayal than Sincerely Yours, which makes her more like the typical bitchy character instead.
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Old 2010-08-06, 04:18   Link #71
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Chapter 13 is out. We learn more about Tsukasa's background and her current 'goal'. Will be great to see how this is solved, and what Jun will do about it.

Tsukasa's sister is just so awesome. Shame we don't get that many scenes with her.
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Old 2010-08-06, 05:03   Link #72
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It was good to see more of Ayatsuji's background. Her childhood sucked, having an elitest father and a narrow minded mother. It made me relate to her a bit more. I still don't know how I feel about her yet, though.

Ayatsuji's sister does seem like a fun character. I loved the way she adressed Junichi "Whatever your name is-san" lol funny.

Overall a good chapter.
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Old 2010-08-06, 17:56   Link #73
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I'm a bit puzzled that you guys seemed to like Ayatsuji's sister... I found her nothing but disturbing. "Oblivious", as Ayatsuji put it, is an understatement. "Oh, she's sick? I forgot!"

The whole story is giving me a bit of the goosebumps. It's unsettling to me to have Ayatsuji have first-class intellectual insight in her predicament, yet at the same time finding her almost entirely incapable of dealing with it properly, rather than her escapist plans.

It's as I wrote before... this girl needs some big hugs. Lots of them.
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Old 2010-08-06, 18:09   Link #74
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I just liked what she called Junichi.

This chapter gave us some insight into why she's so unstable. Considering that the whole "honor student" persona is a fake. Makes me wonder what her real personality is.
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Old 2010-08-06, 19:49   Link #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman32x View Post
I just liked what she called Junichi.

This chapter gave us some insight into why she's so unstable. Considering that the whole "honor student" persona is a fake. Makes me wonder what her real personality is.
I liked it too but its not the reason for me to like her character as suchh. Like Mentar I found her forgetting that her sister is sick disturbing. I mean what if Ayatsuji would be seriously sick and need some medicine, but her sister would just forget about that chasing the dogs which could result in further health complications or even death? Not so very cute anymore...
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Old 2010-08-06, 22:57   Link #76
Bonta Kun
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Altho I love my onee-chan types and rather open to all types of personalities and quirks, I'm with Mentar and Dark here, theres something very off with the onee-chan.
Would I say she's cute, yea physically but overall cute, no way.
Sure enough having a character thats a little out there is great and all,, can do wonders for making a story but really something is awefully off with the lass.
As Junichi put it "she's something else" just not sure if it's in a bad or good way,but atm I'd say it leans towards bad way.

Besides that I did like this chapter alot, was great diving a little deeper into the wonderful world of Miss Ayatsuji-chan.

lol also just noticed it seems the girls like to blame Junichi for their troubles(in pretty much all froms of this series)
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Old 2010-08-06, 23:29   Link #77
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I know there's something up with the sister. And for the record, I never said she was cute. I called her fun because I thought her forgetful/airheaded personality would lead to some funny lines when Junichi comes over to Ayatsuji's house. I don't want her to have a bigger role or anything.
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Old 2010-08-07, 03:29   Link #78
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I'm a bit puzzled that you guys seemed to like Ayatsuji's sister... I found her nothing but disturbing. "Oblivious", as Ayatsuji put it, is an understatement. "Oh, she's sick? I forgot!"
That's exactly why i like her.
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Old 2010-08-07, 08:42   Link #79
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I pity Ayatsuji...her family looks kinda dysfunction, having a sister and parents like that.Fortunately for her theres Junichi...a pillar of strength and support.Despite her "aggressive, cold and calculative"look in nature, she's quite weak physically..
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Old 2010-08-25, 03:42   Link #80
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Spoiler for Chapter 14:
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