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Old 2010-07-29, 14:08   Link #2001
felix
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
That's the one. I just thought i made that clear when i've spoke about him in the past.
I've been skipping though the thread up until now since its been only "the 1001 ways to kill shido" and "did you see the boob shot" for a while; as far as I could tell anyway. Not to mention as everyone I was "WTF recap?! lulz," and subsequently threw any excitement for discussion on the episode along with it to the trashcan.

Sorry for missing your post(s).

And thanks for clarifying. From that perspective I like him too. He's far better then usual hate puppets in anime that are just annoying and lack intelligence/reasoning (despicable as it may be). And as a plus, even has a backstory tied into the main plot; at least it seems so for now.
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Old 2010-07-29, 14:26   Link #2002
Sheba
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Originally Posted by Soconfused View Post
did they really do a mini recap on the 4th episode?

It's recap scenes weaved between actual new content. Seriously, the whole "recap = instant fail of Madhouse" thing was totally blown out of proportion by some people.
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Old 2010-07-29, 16:30   Link #2003
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Ep4 was far, faaaar less horrible than what I thought from reading here. If other producers need to do recaps, this is how it should be done. Provided more of an atmosphere with Takashi's narrating and it felt more natural. Plus it wasn't that long, compared to 50% of an whole ep other series rolls with...

Also, I dearly need this soundtrack. Rarely I like music in an anime this much...
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Old 2010-07-29, 16:54   Link #2004
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I'm definitely going to need to get the uncensored DVDs when they come out.
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Old 2010-07-29, 19:43   Link #2005
fukarming
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Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
Your hopes and dreams will come crashing down sorry friend

Exactly right, like i said there are 2 points in the manga that will be animated and those scenes will show Shidou's true nature. If anyone defends him after a certain scene then they themselves just dont deserve to live.


Spot on Kina. You know how much a person must HATE someone in order to risk their own life than to be in their general vicinity. After everything Rei had already been through she was willing to get off the bus in the middle of Zombie central just so she wouldnt have to be around him and on top of that wished for his death. So far in the story she is the only person that has wished for another humans death. Manga readers already know but once they reveal why she hates him so much it will all make sense.
I know they are not making the Shido side story, but one can always dream, right?

That is exactly my problem with most of the Shido hater. Shido is the intended hate target, and he WILL do something really bad in the future, and the director wants you to hate him. I know and understand all that. However, I don't understand why he gather so much hate from the past 2 episode. Actually I do understand, that is because the director intended you to hate him. However that is done by character facial portrait (the slow motion of Shido's kick in the kid's face) rather than by character behavior. Anyone in a sane mind would know a certain character is the intended villain (Freezer - DBZ, Naraku - Inuyasha...etc). However, shouldn't we look into anime in a more critical point of view? Instead of swallowing what the director shove onto us, shouldn't we take a step back and think if the director's intention make any sense?

Gundam Seed Destiny is a classic example. The director wants you to root for Lacus, Kira and company and hate Durandal and Shinn. However, if you look deeper and closer, you find that Shinn, while not a very likable person, did not do anything morally wrong to become the hate of all the fans.

It is shown in Shido's case. Some of the Shido hater said that "just because Rei hate him so much means he is bad". Since it is not revealed why Rei hate Shido, Rei's hate on Shido can be either legit or illogical. Using that as a justification to hate Shido is just plain wrong.
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Old 2010-07-29, 20:32   Link #2006
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Finally got around to watching this, and I missed out on a lot of talk too, bummer.

Anyway, great episode. The recap was indeed useless, but seeing the times did help put things into perspective and Archer is good with his monologues. And Takashi and Rei just stood there and let him grope her. There were chances to get away before then and they didn't which annoyed me. They could have at least tried so they don't lose the fan service excuse. And I expected a bigger reaction from Rei in regards to what Takashi said and him shooting someone to save her.
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Old 2010-07-29, 21:07   Link #2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
I know they are not making the Shido side story, but one can always dream, right?

That is exactly my problem with most of the Shido hater. Shido is the intended hate target, and he WILL do something really bad in the future, and the director wants you to hate him. I know and understand all that. However, I don't understand why he gather so much hate from the past 2 episode. Actually I do understand, that is because the director intended you to hate him. However that is done by character facial portrait (the slow motion of Shido's kick in the kid's face) rather than by character behavior. Anyone in a sane mind would know a certain character is the intended villain (Freezer - DBZ, Naraku - Inuyasha...etc). However, shouldn't we look into anime in a more critical point of view? Instead of swallowing what the director shove onto us, shouldn't we take a step back and think if the director's intention make any sense?

Gundam Seed Destiny is a classic example. The director wants you to root for Lacus, Kira and company and hate Durandal and Shinn. However, if you look deeper and closer, you find that Shinn, while not a very likable person, did not do anything morally wrong to become the hate of all the fans.

It is shown in Shido's case. Some of the Shido hater said that "just because Rei hate him so much means he is bad". Since it is not revealed why Rei hate Shido, Rei's hate on Shido can be either legit or illogical. Using that as a justification to hate Shido is just plain wrong.
If I were in the main group, the biggest reason I'd hate Shidou, is how quickly he elects himself leader of the group, when he did absolutely nothing, and contributed nothing. I'd have told him to Feck off, as I'm clutching whatever weapons I have on me, and that I'd rather take my chances on my own, then follow someone's orders like that. Just because you're an adult, doesn't mean you're the most qualified(boy do I know some real loser adults...). Then you factor in the kicking of the student's face in, and Rei's reactions, yeah I wouldn't be in a hurry to save his ass.
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Old 2010-07-29, 21:11   Link #2008
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I would just walk off the bus right then and there.


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Old 2010-07-29, 21:19   Link #2009
kenjiharima
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Just a question on the gun Takashi used.

Can that police revolver bullet penetrate the flesh and pass through the crazed guys fat body in real life or will it stay in like what happen in the anime?
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Old 2010-07-29, 21:32   Link #2010
fukarming
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
If I were in the main group, the biggest reason I'd hate Shidou, is how quickly he elects himself leader of the group, when he did absolutely nothing, and contributed nothing. I'd have told him to Feck off, as I'm clutching whatever weapons I have on me, and that I'd rather take my chances on my own, then follow someone's orders like that. Just because you're an adult, doesn't mean you're the most qualified(boy do I know some real loser adults...). Then you factor in the kicking of the student's face in, and Rei's reactions, yeah I wouldn't be in a hurry to save his ass.
Do you disagree that a leader is needed in this situation? Or you just disagree Shido being the leader?

The reason Shido becomes the leader because everyone in the main cast is simply not interested in being the leader. Shido asked Saeko if she is the leader and she claims she is not. None of the main cast try to pitch themselves to be the leader. Shido would warrant the hate if Saeko (or other main cast) admit they are the leader and Shido forcibly take over, which is not the case here.

Besides, so far Shido hasn't make any orders yet. Shouldn't you wait until he makes a bad/ unreasonable order before you tell him to f-k off? Also, I said it couple pages ago, but being a leader do not mean having the biggest weapon, but the best mind. If Saya is not interested in being the leader (she is my first choice), I will take Shido as my second choice.

Judging on bits of information here and there, I believe the whole thing about Shido and leadership would be resolved in the next episode. Let's see how that plays and we can talk more about that.
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Old 2010-07-29, 21:49   Link #2011
lionken07
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Originally Posted by kenjiharima View Post
Just a question on the gun Takashi used.

Can that police revolver bullet penetrate the flesh and pass through the crazed guys fat body in real life or will it stay in like what happen in the anime?
I would think the bullet would stay in his body. I'm guessing it is a .38 wheelgun.
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Old 2010-07-29, 21:50   Link #2012
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Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
Do you disagree that a leader is needed in this situation? Or you just disagree Shido being the leader?

The reason Shido becomes the leader because everyone in the main cast is simply not interested in being the leader. Shido asked Saeko if she is the leader and she claims she is not. None of the main cast try to pitch themselves to be the leader. Shido would warrant the hate if Saeko (or other main cast) admit they are the leader and Shido forcibly take over, which is not the case here.
No one in the team was a formal leader, but the kids didn't need one at the time. The fact that the students got to the bus in one piece was proof that their system worked. Perhaps the time will come when more assertive leadership is required, but that was not the case when the kids were still in school. That's because the objective was very simple: Get out of the building, alive.

In the future, however, individual team members may put forward competing objectives. Or, they may agree on the overall goals but disagree over the appropriate course of action. At that stage, they will need to appoint someone as the arbiter, someone who has final say. The leader doesn't have to be oldest, the strongest or the most intelligent. He just simply has to be the person whom everyone else respects, and is able to command obedience in return.

That is how all teams work, in real life and not just in anime.

Shidou, on the other hand, is simply being an opportunist. He insisted on a leader when circumstances didn't yet call for it. He practically forced his "leadership" upon the entire group, through the support of outside members who hadn't actively contributed to all of their survival. In effect, Shidou instigated a coup, and he got away with it.

All in all, pretty villainous and most certainly not praiseworthy. It's not surprising, therefore, that he is an obvious target of hatred, regardless of what history Rei appears to have with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjiharima View Post
Just a question on the gun Takashi used. Can that police revolver bullet penetrate the flesh and pass through the crazed guys fat body in real life or will it stay in like what happen in the anime?
That's a question for the ballistics experts to answer. I'm not one.

But I would like to point out one aspect of the gun's introduction into the story that most people seem to have missed. If you listen to the background music, when Takashi picked up the revolver, and if you think further about the context in which he and Rei helped themselves to the weapon, it's actually symbolic of the state of societal decay — both literally(!) and figuratively.

It was barely a moment before that Takashi wryly observed that they were being somewhat "reckless" to dare to approach the police when they were riding a stolen motorbike without a licence. But now, they'd actually stooped to looting from mashed corpses, to take possession of a firearm and its ammunition — without much hesitation.

So, when Takashi commented about how heavy the revolver was, that could also be taken as a metaphor for the seriousness of their actions. In a saner world, it would have been a grave offence. But, given the circumstances, what was once illegal was now a matter of survival.

Cue to pot-smoking punk. Causing grevious injury and leaving someone in the lurch to face certain death — under saner circumstances, these would be capital crimes. But, given the apocalypse, it had become a matter of survival.

Morals were sliding away. It had become harder to tell right from wrong. That's not something to be pleased about under the best of circumstances.

Also in this context, while Shidou's actions appeared underhanded and opportunistic, the original team members could not find sufficient grounds to oppose him — it had become a lot harder to denounce his actions for what they were, because all of them had "dirtied" their hands, one way or the another, to get that far (Takashi had "killed" his best friend, but he couldn't be certain that he was not acting out of jealousy; Saeko killed a human being with her bare hands, an act of mercy killing perhaps, but it was still killing all the same). Yet, if Shidou's "leadership" was supposed to provide unity and a clear sense of direction, I think he had already failed in that one simple regard. He's likely to face mutiny before long.

Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2010-07-29 at 22:09.
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Old 2010-07-29, 21:56   Link #2013
SPARTAN 119
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Yes. Saeko is the least endowed of the starting 4
I don't really care that much, awesomeness>>>>>boobs in my book.
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Old 2010-07-29, 21:59   Link #2014
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I went back to play ep 4 and it looks like they picked up a Smith & Wesson.
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Old 2010-07-29, 22:09   Link #2015
Hypernova
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Originally Posted by kenjiharima View Post
Just a question on the gun Takashi used.

Can that police revolver bullet penetrate the flesh and pass through the crazed guys fat body in real life or will it stay in like what happen in the anime?
Police guns always use hollow points that break up, in a reverse to military where it's actually banned since that frags increase the wounding. This is to ensure that you don't shoot through ppl and hit who ever is standing behind them. The fragmentation also increases stopping power (since all kinetic energy is passed on to target) since in police work if you need someone to drop you need that to happen fast.
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Old 2010-07-29, 22:21   Link #2016
lionken07
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Originally Posted by Hypernova View Post
Police guns always use hollow points that break up, in a reverse to military where it's actually banned since that frags increase the wounding. This is to ensure that you don't shoot through ppl and hit who ever is standing behind them. The fragmentation also increases stopping power (since all kinetic energy is passed on to target) since in police work if you need someone to drop you need that to happen fast.
Tho this is somewhat true but it was obvious that the police in that car did not use hollowpoints. At around 12:58. All of them looks like FMJ (full metal jackets) to me.
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Old 2010-07-29, 22:46   Link #2017
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post

Also in this context, while Shidou's actions appeared underhanded and opportunistic, the original team members could not find sufficient grounds to oppose him it had become a lot harder to denounce his actions for what they were, because all of them had "dirtied" their hands, one way or the another, to get that far (Takashi had "killed" his best friend, but he couldn't be certain that he was not acting out of jealousy; Saeko killed a human being with her bare hands, an act of mercy killing perhaps, but it was still killing all the same). Yet, if Shidou's "leadership" was supposed to provide unity and a clear sense of direction, I think he had already failed in that one simple regard. He's likely to face mutiny before long.
This all depends on how he tries to take control, does he do it through respect, fear, or temptation? if he plans on controling through respect he has failed at gaining the respect of at least 4 students. (main cast) now what if he controls through fear? consider how easy it would be to just kick somebody off the bus, maybe even break a leg before you do so, it might be effective, and the main cast would be in danger of this if they don't follow him and he goes this way. then there is temptation, the world is different now, and he con likely control the same way cults do now, sex or drugs, or both. he can simply say forget modesty for get inhibitions, go at it till you can't anymore, orgie time!, and maintain control that way by reducing his "followers" to people that react to pleasure and fear only.
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Old 2010-07-29, 23:01   Link #2018
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Originally Posted by lionken07 View Post
Tho this is somewhat true but it was obvious that the police in that car did not use hollowpoints. At around 12:58. All of them looks like FMJ (full metal jackets) to me.
I should point out at this point that it is unlikely that the creators of the manga and show consulted with weapons experts and so it's unlikely anybody on show staff knows the difference between one bullet type and another.
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Old 2010-07-29, 23:02   Link #2019
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Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
Do you disagree that a leader is needed in this situation? Or you just disagree Shido being the leader?

The reason Shido becomes the leader because everyone in the main cast is simply not interested in being the leader. Shido asked Saeko if she is the leader and she claims she is not. None of the main cast try to pitch themselves to be the leader. Shido would warrant the hate if Saeko (or other main cast) admit they are the leader and Shido forcibly take over, which is not the case here.

Besides, so far Shido hasn't make any orders yet. Shouldn't you wait until he makes a bad/ unreasonable order before you tell him to f-k off? Also, I said it couple pages ago, but being a leader do not mean having the biggest weapon, but the best mind. If Saya is not interested in being the leader (she is my first choice), I will take Shido as my second choice.

Judging on bits of information here and there, I believe the whole thing about Shido and leadership would be resolved in the next episode. Let's see how that plays and we can talk more about that.
Based on the main group, there hasn't been a need for a leader yet. They are all perfectly capable of acting independently of each other, and did fairly well before meeting up. They also have something to contribute, and know how they all act in the face of danger and diversity.

Tell me what Shidou has done, that shows he deserves to be leader? A democratic vote means nothing, when the majority of the voters have to be protected and can't defend themselves. This reminds me much of the current political situation in the U.S., though I won't get into that.

Again, what has Shidou done that says he's leader material? Outside of Rei, nobody really knows anything about him, or what he's capable of, or what he will do with the zombie situation(outside of kicking a student's face in). A leader has to prove to the strongest members in a group, that he deserves their respect. And so far he hasn't done crap other than proclaim himself the head boss guy.

The weak have a far greater need to be lead, than the strong. It's just the way it is. The main characters have not shown a need to have someone lead them. So in this case, they do not need a leader, and would probably be better off without one.
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Old 2010-07-29, 23:17   Link #2020
kenjiharima
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Originally Posted by Hypernova View Post
Police guns always use hollow points that break up, in a reverse to military where it's actually banned since that frags increase the wounding. This is to ensure that you don't shoot through ppl and hit who ever is standing behind them. The fragmentation also increases stopping power (since all kinetic energy is passed on to target) since in police work if you need someone to drop you need that to happen fast.
Takashi was lucky he didn't knew about much guns.

So looking at the the craze guy's body mass, up close what gun can penetrate that amount of human fat?
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